Do rich people go to Heaven?

It's NEVER how much or how little money a person has that determines whether they can go to heaven.
Instead it all depends on three things:

1. whether a person has accepted Christ as their savior (not money),
2. how they have shown that acceptance in their life
3. and how they have used what God has provided for them, (selfishly or generously) that will determine whether or not they can go to heaven.

pdudgeon said:

2. how they have shown that acceptance in their life
3. and how they have used what God has provided for them, (selfishly or generously) that will determine whether or not they can go to heaven.

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As a good Protestant, I certainly disagree with your works based notion of getting to Heaven.

There are interesting stories of wealthy people in scripture.

One was the "wealthy young ruler." Scripture tells us that he was a righteous man who obeyed the Mosaic Law scrupulously. But when challenged by Jesus to give away his wealth, the young man could not bear to do so.

Then there is the story of the wealthy tax collector Zacchaeus. As a tax collector, Zacchaeus was despised by everyone and almost certainly had gained his wealth dishonestly. But Zacchaeus wasn't even challenged directly by Jesus. When people began muttering, "Jesus must not know how this man became wealthy," Zacchaeus immediately proclaimed,

“Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

In other words, the wealthy--and righteous--young ruler let his wealth get between him and Jesus; the tax collector did not.

mindlight said:

Compare the story of Zaccheus the tax collector and of the rich young man. The one gave up half his wealth and became an honest Christian ( indeed Zaccheus later became the first bishop of Ceaserea). The other walked away from an opportunity to follow Jesus to hang on to his wealth.

If our wealth does not serve the goals that God has laid on our hearts then it is in the way of our relationship with God. If it serves Gods purposes then how can it separate us from Him?

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Aww, you beat me to that comparison.

Grip Docility said:

As for the ministry... yeah... I’m not for people gouging the flock.

I told God that I wouldn’t minister in any way unless He forced me into it, or provided a tent maker type job that allowed me to volunteer my time and use my own resources.

I’ve just received that type of job. I prayed about this 2 months ago.

Not kidding! I agree with you on Paul’s model.

But wealthy and poor alike are in Christ.

Also, Paul was an official Roman Citizen. He wasn’t a poor fellow. Acts of the Apostles 22:28

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There were lots and lots of poor Roman citizens. That's why Rome had a welfare program (a dole of bread and grain) for poor Roman citizens.

Paul's family very likely was wealthy --that's how he still knew his Tribal relationship and how he wound up becoming a student of Gamaliel in Jerusalem even though he was only a Hellenist Jew--but when Paul became a Christian, he would have cut himself off from his family's wealth.

What we see in scripture is that Paul either worked for his keep or lived on the grace of certain believers who were strong enough in their faith not to harbor a grudge about it.

Hammster said:

Are treasures in heaven real wealth?

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The only thing that translates from this world into heaven are the souls of those ultimately saved. And that is also the treasure for which Jesus gave himself.

So if there is anything we can do in this world that translates to "treasure in heaven," it must relate to how we have related to the souls of those who will are ultimately saved.

RDKirk said:

There were lots and lots of poor Roman citizens. That's why Rome had a welfare program (a dole of bread and grain) for poor Roman citizens.

Paul's family very likely was wealthy, but when Paul became a Christian, he would have cut himself off from that.

What we see in scripture is that Paul either worked for his keep or lived on the grace of certain believers who were strong enough in their faith not to harbor a grudge about it.

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Agree. Paul poured himself out like drink. He started with much Capitol and gave all he had to the Gospel.

I simply want to make it clear that Monetary success is not contrary to Christianity, as much as the prosperity gospel isn’t part of it either.

A lot of people judge others based upon the car they drive. Here's a thought experiment I wonder if anyone will consider with me.

To calculate your net worth, the simplest way to do it would be to imagine you sold everything you owned, then paid off all your debt - the amount of money you were left with would be your net worth.

For example, if you own a house which you paid $500,000 for, but you have a mortgage for $400,000, then you could only put $100,000 towards your net worth calculation.

So if you don't mind, do that (in your head, not in a response, I don't want to know the number). Now think about the car you drive. How much did you pay for that car?

If you owned a $50,000 car and had a net worth of $500,000, then your car would represent 10% of your net worth.

here's my question. Well, first a statement, and then a question: I drive a nice car. But my car only represents 1% of my net worth. Would you say I was conservative with my car choice, or materialistic?

Grip Docility said:

Agree. Paul poured himself out like drink. He started with much Capitol and gave all he had to the Gospel.

I simply want to make it clear that Monetary success is not contrary to Christianity, as much as the prosperity gospel isn’t part of it either.

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It's a matter of what you think about the ownership of that money.

When I was active duty military, during one period I was the property manager of the building that housed my unit. Nothing happened to that building--or in it--without my signature. Colloquially, I called it "my building."

But, in fact, the building was not my personal property. I could not move my family into it, or use it for a personal birthday party. I was accountable for its proper use--to fulfill the mission of my commander--and he was accountable to his commander above him that the building was used to fulfill the mission.

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.

With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them.

For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. -- Acts 4

What is happening here? Did everyone immediately turn over everything they owned to the apostles?

No, they changed their understanding of their relationship to their property and businesses from ownership to stewardship.

That meant those who were in the business of buying and selling property continued to manage those businesses, except that profit (over and above operating expenses, which includes the salary of the steward) went to the purpose of the property owner--Christ.

This concept reverberates through the New Testament.

It is fundamental to understanding Luke 12. If one does not understand the change from ownership to stewardship, one misses the entire point of Jesus' teaching in that chapter.

The change in mindset from ownership to stewardship is crucial to understanding Ephesians 6:9, for it totally changes the entire dynamic of the master/slave relationship of Christians.

RDKirk said:

It's a matter of what you think about the ownership of that money.

When I was active duty military, during one period I was the property manager of the building that housed my unit. Nothing happened to that building--or in it--without my signature. Colloquially, I called it "my building."

But, in fact, the building was not my personal property. I could not move my family into it, or use it for a personal birthday party. I was accountable for its proper use--to fulfill the mission of my commander--and he was accountable to his commander above him that the building was used to fulfill the mission.

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.

With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them.

For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. -- Acts 4

What is happening here? Did everyone immediately turn over everything they owned to the apostles?

No, they changed their understanding of their relationship to their property and businesses from ownership to stewardship.

That meant those who were in the business of buying and selling property continued to manage those businesses, except that profit (over and above operating expenses, which includes the salary of the steward) went to the purpose of the property owner--Christ.

This concept reverberates through the New Testament.

It is fundamental to understanding Luke 12. If one does not understand the change from ownership to stewardship, one misses the entire point of Jesus' teaching in that chapter.

The change in mindset from ownership to stewardship is crucial to understanding Ephesians 6:9, for it totally changes the entire dynamic of the master/slave relationship of Christians.

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In agreement... fully!

I’m coming to learn that monetarily rich and poor alike can be enslaved by their gold.

I’m being led to understand that the steward enslaves their gold, while the owner is enslaved by their gold. I can’t believe I’m saying this... but there are those that slave for their gold, and those that make gold their slave.

SPF said:

A lot of people judge others based upon the car they drive. Here's a thought experiment I wonder if anyone will consider with me.

To calculate your net worth, the simplest way to do it would be to imagine you sold everything you owned, then paid off all your debt - the amount of money you were left with would be your net worth.

For example, if you own a house which you paid $500,000 for, but you have a mortgage for $400,000, then you could only put $100,000 towards your net worth calculation.

So if you don't mind, do that (in your head, not in a response, I don't want to know the number). Now think about the car you drive. How much did you pay for that car?

If you owned a $50,000 car and had a net worth of $500,000, then your car would represent 10% of your net worth.

here's my question. Well, first a statement, and then a question: I drive a nice car. But my car only represents 1% of my net worth. Would you say I was conservative with my car choice, or materialistic?

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Why did someone mark "agree" with me on this post? There's nothing to agree with! You need to respond and play my game!

SPF said:

Why did someone mark "agree" with me on this post? There's nothing to agree with! You need to respond and play my game!

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If someone is a good steward with their Gold, their Gold will grow. If someone is a poor steward, like I had been for many years before... the pursuit of Gold enslaves them.

The percentage point is fair and I understand the game.

If a person has a large sum of Net Worth and they drive any vehicle whatsoever that would be less than 1% of their income... they would be living farther inside their means than someone with a lower net worth that might force their car liability percentage to be around 10-25 % of their net worth.

People judge by the flesh, yet there is text on being good with the Gold that God entrusts us with. By doing good things with the Gold... and achieving assets... a person would then be more free to volunteer their time and have larger financing to assist others with.

The point is... this is all “Material” in discussion and really doesn’t play a part in Salvation, from either side of the coin.

Luke631 said:

There's many times that the New Testament says that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich people to enter to the kingdom of God.

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I've said this before:
By the definition Jesus used, every single person currently living in the Western hemisphere, without any exception other than the homeless, is filthy rich - richer than the "Rich young man" from the Gospel, in the same way that Bill Gates is richer than your average middle class American.

DanishLutheran said:

I've said this before:
By the definition Jesus used, every single person currently living in the Western hemisphere, without any exception other than the homeless, is filthy rich - richer than the "Rich young man" from the Gospel, in the same way that Bill Gates is richer than your average middle class American.

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What definition did Jesus use?

SPF said:

What definition did Jesus use?

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He knew poverty. It was all around Him. Back then was actual poverty. In the West today, there isn't any actual poverty except for the homeless.

DanishLutheran said:

He knew poverty. It was all around Him. Back then was actual poverty. In the West today, there isn't any actual poverty except for the homeless.

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Oh, so you don't actually have a "definition".

I'm curious. You truly believe that the single mom living on government assistance in a dilapidated and rodent infested apartment, working 2 jobs and barely having enough to provide for her child is actually more wealthy than the rich young ruler?

Come on now... let's be serious.

Grip Docility said:

If someone is a good steward with their Gold, their Gold will grow.

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I have seen this to be true with regard to whatever a person has been given stewardship by the Lord.

We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully. -- Romans 12

If one is working out his gift for the Body of Christ within a congregational framework, the gift does not fail.

Those who have the gift of giving and are providing for the Body of Christ in the framework of the congregation will not run out of money.

I have actually seen it working. Businesspeople who have dedicated a portion of their proceeds to the congregation see their business increasing to match the amount they've dedicated.

SPF said:

As a good Protestant, I certainly disagree with your works based notion of getting to Heaven.

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Wait a minute, you left off the most important parts!
No one gets into heaven without first accepting Christ as their Savior.
Secondly, remember that faith without works is dead. Thus, if you believe and have faith, then that faith must be acted upon.

To simplify a bit, every time we sit in a chair--even if we've never sat in that particular chair before, we are acting on our faith that the chair will support our weight.
It's the same way with the food we eat.

Our body tells us that we are hungry, and so to fill our stomachs, we eat food, our body digests it, and sends the nutrients throughout our body so that we might grow and survive. That's also faith in action.
Even day old children will instinctively do this, even thought they do not have the head knowledge to know what is happening.

So it's not based on works, it's based on two things: experience and applied faith.

pdudgeon said:

So it's not based on works, it's based on two things: experience and applied faith.

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Im fairly certain that to a Catholic, “applied faith” is another way of saying works.

I can’t imagine how we’d minister to the wealthy with this attitude. Bias is a stumbling block to the gospel. Those who don’t know the Lord are perishing. Whether they’re rich or poor is immaterial. We’re fighting for souls not coins.