God is Good

Nihilist Virus said:

That makes no sense.

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Do you see the difference between saying evil was/is never possible and saying evil was possible, but isn’t anymore?

Nihilist Virus said:

But if that is your reasoning, why didn't God just allow evil to exist for a microsecond and then eliminate it? Why allow it to persist for billions of years in a world where nearly every living thing with a central nervous system dies in terror and agony?

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We’re not able to fully perceive heaven(post possibility of evil) yet because we’re still in the corruptible flesh. My only guess is that all this suffering and death had to take place(God\Jesus included) in order to make evil impossible, both on earth and in heaven.

Chriliman said:

Do you see the difference between saying evil was/is never possible and saying evil was possible, but isn’t anymore?



We’re not able to fully perceive heaven(post possibility of evil) yet because we’re still in the corruptible flesh. My only guess is that all this suffering and death had to take place(God\Jesus included) in order to make evil impossible, both on earth and in heaven.

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In eternity...billions of years could be a microsecond...relatively speaking...

Chriliman said:

Do you see the difference between saying evil was/is never possible and saying evil was possible, but isn’t anymore?

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Your proposition makes no sense. That doesn't mean I don't understand it.

An example of that in action would be a time travel plot. It would make no sense that I could go back in time to kill Hitler, although I understand the concept.

We’re not able to fully perceive heaven(post possibility of evil) yet because we’re still in the corruptible flesh. My only guess is that all this suffering and death had to take place(God\Jesus included) in order to make evil impossible, both on earth and in heaven.

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This fact would undermine God's omnipotence.

cvanwey said:

1. Is whatever God decides to do 'good', no matter what, because it is God whom is doing it?

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I see all good is from the source of Good, which is God and all His Messengers.

I see all evil is lack of that good, from our own selves.

Regards Tony

Nihilist Virus said:

That makes no sense. But if that is your reasoning, why didn't God just allow evil to exist for a microsecond and then eliminate it? Why allow it to persist for billions of years in a world where nearly every living thing with a central nervous system dies in terror and agony?

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I see the answer would be in this passage;

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

The human spirit is created at the end of darkness and beginning of light. All the light is a potential within us. We need the spirit of Faith, by being born again to release that light.

This world is the perfect matrix for us to acheive that goal, all via our own free will.

Evil exists only when we let it be so. It can be explained as the lack of light. The Sun is the animating force, it is light and lack of light becomes a stage of darkness. It is any veil we put up to stop the sun shining.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

I see the answer would be in this passage;

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

The human spirit is created at the end of darkness and beginning of light. All the light is a potential within us. We need the spirit of Faith, by being born again to release that light.

This world is the perfect matrix for us to acheive that goal, all via our own free will.

Evil exists only when we let it be so. It can be explained as the lack of light. The Sun is the animating force, it is light and lack of light becomes a stage of darkness. It is any veil we put up to stop the sun shining.

Regards Tony

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Have you ever won anyone over with that?

Nihilist Virus said:

Have you ever won anyone over with that?

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Everybody is free to see life and Faith as they wish to.

Regards Tony

cvanwey said:

You did not really address my specific question...

'1. Is whatever God decides to do 'good', no matter what, because it is God whom is doing it?'

You stated 'all good is from God.' There's a reason I ask... Tiny example:

A person kills their child and claims they were told by God to do so.

Or

President W. Bush states he spoke to God about attacking Iraq.

How would this be any different from Biblical stories? If God is interactive today, and speaks with humans, how do you know God is still not issuing commands to His believers? You would have no choice but to judge such a claimed action, at least in part, 'morally.' How would you distinguish if God is speaking to you, verses not? What mechanism would you use?

I would assume you believe God speaks to His children at present??? If so, how can you distinguish the act as good, as mentioned above?

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All good is given in Gods Holy Scriptures. The example of Gods Messengers, also teach us what is good.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

All good is given in Gods Holy Scriptures. The example of Gods Messengers, also teach us what is good.

Regards Tony

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Are you able to give a more direct answer than that? Whence does this standard of goodness come? Is what’s in the scriptures “good” because it’s in the scriptures, or is there some other standard by which scriptural moral prescriptions are judged “good?”

Tone said:

In eternity...billions of years could be a microsecond...relatively speaking...

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Yes, and as long as there is a mind in eternity - that microsecond can have meaning.

Nihilist Virus said:

Your proposition makes no sense. That doesn't mean I don't understand it.

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How is understanding something not also making sense of it?

Nihilist Virus said:

An example of that in action would be a time travel plot. It would make no sense that I could go back in time to kill Hitler, although I understand the concept.

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I don't know about that, I can make sense of that time travel plot despite it not being physically possible(as far as I know )

Nihilist Virus said:

This fact would undermine God's omnipotence.

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I believe God has great power, raising the dead to life as an example, but I don't believe it's unlimited in the sense that God won't do something he knows is wrong or do something logically impossible.

Chriliman said:

How is understanding something not also making sense of it?

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Because the example I gave is not well-defined. Neither is yours.

I don't know about that, I can make sense of that time travel plot despite it not being physically possible(as far as I know )

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Regardless of it being physically possible or not, it's not logically possible. It's not well-defined.

I believe God has great power, raising the dead to life as an example, but I don't believe it's unlimited in the sense that God won't do something he knows is wrong or do something logically impossible.

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But it was logically possible for him to minimize suffering and evil. Yet he did not.

Nihilist Virus said:

But it was logically possible for him to minimize suffering and evil. Yet he did not.

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Maybe.

Somewhere it is written that if He DID NOT shorten the suffering, NO ONE WOULD SURVIVE. (no one at all)

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Maybe.

Somewhere it is written that if He DID NOT shorten the suffering, NO ONE WOULD SURVIVE. (no one at all)

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So why not shorten it all the way? Or did he not have the power to do so?

Nihilist Virus said:

So why not shorten it all the way? Or did he not have the power to do so?

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Why not ?

Ask Him.

gaara4158 said:

Are you able to give a more direct answer than that? Whence does this standard of goodness come? Is what’s in the scriptures “good” because it’s in the scriptures, or is there some other standard by which scriptural moral prescriptions are judged “good?”

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The standard is Gods Prophets and Mesengers, their person and their life. After that we have the Word of God. This is the standard God gives us in each age. It is God's Covenant that He will never leave us without guidance.

What is not good, is when mans rule or personal actions are not guided by that standard. Also when we reject Gods Mesengers, there is also a negative effect on Humanity as a whole.

Since Jesus I see 3 Messengers have been given. Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah. I see the Bab and Baha'u'llah have fulfilled Biblical prophecy for the promised 'Day of God' and given all that is required for us to turn our swords into plowshares. Their Persons, Their lives and their God given Word, testify to what is good in this age. Some of those teachings are;

Equality of men and women
Abolition of Slavery
Universal education for all
Spiritual solution to economic problems
The Oneness of God
The Oneness of Gods Messengers
The oneness of Humanity
Elimination of all predudices
A path given for disarmed the Nation's
A path to becoming a proud world citizen

To name a very few.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

What is not good, is when mans rule or personal actions are not guided by that standard. Also when we reject Gods Mesengers, there is also a negative effect on Humanity as a whole.

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Yahuweh's Standard is Simple:

There is only ONE NAME given among men by which someone may be saved: JESUS CHRIST. No other.

This is the truth proclaimed by ALL "God's Messengers", every one of them.

Rejecting their message is fatal - soul destroying.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Yahuweh's Standard is Simple:

There is only ONE NAME given among men by which someone may be saved: JESUS CHRIST. No other.

This is the truth proclaimed by ALL "God's Messengers", every one of them.

Rejecting their message is fatal - soul destroying.

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To me that name is Christ. It is Christ that is the first and last, the alpha an omega, the beginning and the end. It is obvious it was not the flesh body of Jesus, as that flesh body was born from Mary and Jesus as Christ says, the flesh amounts to nothing, it is the Spirit that gives life.

Peter confirmed this in Matthew 16:13-20

The valid statement being;

"15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?16 Simon Peter answered and said,, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Christ 'Annointed One' Annointed of the Holy Spirit.

It is this same Spirit that becomes all God's Messengers and Christ said;

Revelation 3:12 "The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name."

A new name! A name that only those that receive it will know;

Revelation 2:17 "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it."

That Spirit we are to listen to as Christ (Holy Spirit) was given by Baha'u'llah the Father. Baha'u'llah translated means 'Glory of God'.

Thus to accept Jesus Christ the Son, we must also accept Baha'u'llah the Father. That is the way I see it.

Regards Tony

That's not what is written (nor in line with) in Yahuweh's Word though. Big enough difference to mean loss of life.