He is the way
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We believe that Jesus came into the world the natural way, did you think it was some other way? If so please let us know how He was born.
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LDS Mormons deny the virgin birth
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His student
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He is the way
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Why are you quoting scriptures about His conception when I asked about His birth?
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He is the way
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Actually the question was about His birth, not His conception.
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His student
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If a virgin gives birth it is obvious that the child was not conceived in the normal way. Therefore a question about the virgin birth necessarily is about conception as well.
Duhhhh!
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He is the way
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So when Heber C. Kimball said this, he was correct.
Heber C. Kimball who was a member of the first presidency said,
"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 211)
Begotten means born, not conceived.
begotten
adjective
Definition of begotten (Entry 2 of 2)
: brought into existence by or as if by a parent.
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His student
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Wrong.
Read the definition again.
When do you think the human Jesus came into existence?
Do you believe that Jesus Christ became "fully human" as well as fully God at conception or birth?
You don't agree with late term abortionists who say that life begins at birth do you?
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He is the way
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Next question, Who is the Father of Jesus Christ?
(New Testament | Luke 1:35)
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(New Testament | Mark 1:1)
1 THE beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
(New Testament | Matthew 3:17)
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
(New Testament | Matthew 17:5)
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
(New Testament | Mark 1:11)
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
So was it the Holy Ghost or by the power of the highest that overshadowed Her? Do we really understand the conception of Jesus Christ? I don't believe we do.
(New Testament | Luke 1:35)
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(New Testament | Mark 1:1)
1 THE beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
(New Testament | Matthew 3:17)
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
(New Testament | Matthew 17:5)
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
(New Testament | Mark 1:11)
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
So was it the Holy Ghost or by the power of the highest that overshadowed Her? Do we really understand the conception of Jesus Christ? I don't believe we do.
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He is the way
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Perhaps you think that Heber C. Kimball was talking about conception, I believe he was talking about the birth of Jesus.
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ViaCrucis
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Jesus is the Eternal Son and Word of the Father, eternally begotten of the Father's own Essence as God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God. And so He is homoousios--the same Being, the same God--with the Father, As the Son He is True, Eternal, Almighty God.
The Eternal Logos, the only-begotten Son of the Father, became flesh by His Incarnation in Mary's womb, being conceived in her by the power of the Holy Spirit. So, as it pertains to His flesh, Jesus has no paternity, He has a biological mother, but not a biological father. It was a mysterious, supernatural act of parthenogenesis; conception without "seed". As Mary remained a virgin, and by this miracle wrought by God Mary became blessed to become the virgin birth-giver and mother of God the Son and Eternal Logos Himself.
Jesus Christ is not the Son of God "according to the flesh", He is the Son of His mother Mary according to the flesh. He is the Son of God according to His eternal and uncreated Deity, as the only-begotten, begotten before all ages, eternally, without beginning, as the one and only God, with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
-CryptoLutheran
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mmksparbud
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LOL! Sorry to leave you in suspense! They use Job 38:7 mostly, but wherever in Job it says the sons of God, they view that as proof that we existed before being born.
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Though I don't agree with Mormons.. my 1st thought is.. ok so what? Where is it written in the word of GOD one MUST believe in the virgin birth to be saved? Even in the OT they still go back and forth over a WORD and what it meant.
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Peter1000
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I see you conveniently left out the best scripture in the Bible or the BOM to describe how Mary became pregnant. Why? Because it proves BY and JS and all the rest that God the Father, who is the power of the Highest, was the real Father of Jesus and yes, the Holy Ghost had fallen upon Mary and was the power that allowed the conception to be completed by natural processes.
You need to learn how to tell the whole story, with all the scriptures to bear on the discussion.
Which brings us back to my post 80 on the thread, John 10:33.
So add Luke 1:35 to your virgin Mary scriptures, and let's look at the word 'overshadow', as in 'the power of the highest 'overshadowed Mary', and ask these questions:
1) what causes an overshadowing?
2) how did God cause a shadow to come over Mary? How can a spirit cast a shadow? It can't. So how did God cast a shadow over Mary? It is because He has a body with mass, a body of flesh and bone and this body got between the light in the room and Mary on the table or the bed, and caused a shadow to overshadow her. Now if you think not, tell me another way that overshadowing could have occurred? No do you see how important this verse is in the Bible, that gives a a partial look at the nature of God the Father, which is exactly the same nature that His Son has now in his perfect resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit. Quite interesting, huh?
3) Did God have a sexual union with Mary? No, he did not. If he had, she would not have had a virgin birth. So why did He 'overshadow' her?
Just a couple of interesting thoughts about the immaculate conception and the virgin birth of Jesus.
BTW, where was the incarnate Jesus when the Holy Ghost fell upon Mary and the power of the Highest overshadowed her?
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He is the way
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Christ has a body of flesh and bone so it sounds like the Father does too. Thank you for the affirmation.
Homoousios
CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY
WRITTEN BY:
See Article History
Homoousios, in Christianity, the key term of the Christological doctrine formulated at the first ecumenical council, at Nicaea in 325, to affirm that God the Son and God the Father are of the same substance. The Council of Nicaea, presided over by the emperor Constantine, was convened to resolve the controversy within the church over the relationship between the persons of the Trinity. The council condemned Arianism, which taught that Christ was more than human but not fully divine. The use of homoousios (Greek: “of one substance”) in the Nicene Creed was meant to put an end to the controversy, although the influence of Arianism persisted in the church for centuries. In 381 Emperor Theodosius I summoned the second ecumenical council, the first Council of Constantinople, which produced a creed that also contained the word homoousios and became the definitive statement of orthodox belief.
From: Homoousios | Christian theology
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