LDS Mormons deny the virgin birth

[He is the way]

I do not try to make it anything. It is your prophets that state she CONCIEVED THE NATURAL WAY. Nobody is debating the fact that He was BORN the natural way.

Not one of our prophets has said that sex was involved or that Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was born. This conception may not be the natural conception to man but it would be natural to God who formed male and female from the dust of the earth.

 

[mmksparbud]

Not one of our prophets has said that sex was involved or that Mary was not a virgin when Jesus was born. This conception may not be the natural conception to man but it would be natural to God who formed male and female from the dust of the earth.

But according to you---that was only part of it--for The Father and one of His wives actually produced Adam and Eve long before that as spirit children---the dust just gave them a human body to use.

What is CONCIEVED IN THE NATURAL WAY JUST AS MAN AND WOMAN--

“Christ was begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547)
President Ezra Taft Benson, 13th President of the Church (1899-1994) stated: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father." 3


Elder Bruce R. McConkie, Ordained Apostle and sustained to the Twelve, (1915-1985) said:

"God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God and that designation means what it says." Mormon Doctrine, (1979) Page 742.

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers." Mormon Doctrine, (1979) Page 546. 4

That is what was believed and taught---because mainstream Christianity objected to this so strongly, Mormons have changed they way this is stated now. Another example of you can't believe their prophets, and they will have 2 differing statements about most subjects.

 

[He is the way]

But according to you---that was only part of it--for The Father and one of His wives actually produced Adam and Eve long before that as spirit children---the dust just gave them a human body to use.

What is CONCIEVED IN THE NATURAL WAY JUST AS MAN AND WOMAN--

“Christ was begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547)
President Ezra Taft Benson, 13th President of the Church (1899-1994) stated: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father." 3


Elder Bruce R. McConkie, Ordained Apostle and sustained to the Twelve, (1915-1985) said:

"God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God and that designation means what it says." Mormon Doctrine, (1979) Page 742.

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers." Mormon Doctrine, (1979) Page 546. 4

That is what was believed and taught---because mainstream Christianity objected to this so strongly, Mormons have changed they way this is stated now. Another example of you can't believe their prophets, and they will have 2 differing statements about most subjects.

As I stated sex is not mentioned. This is about who Jesus' real Father is. He is the only begotten Son of God the Father. It probably could have been worded better, but you are reading way too much into it. The Bible also states that Jesus is the Son of God meaning God the Father. Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

When He said this He was not speaking about the Holy Ghost. Of course you would like to justify the title of this thread, but it is an insult to me and other members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints and is completely untrue.

 

[mmksparbud]

As I stated sex is not mentioned. This is about who Jesus' real Father is. He is the only begotten Son of God the Father. It probably could have been worded better, but you are reading way too much into it. The Bible also states that Jesus is the Son of God meaning God the Father. Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

When He said this He was not speaking about the Holy Ghost. Of course you would like to justify the title of this thread, but it is an insult to me and other members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints and is completely untrue.

The word sex was not used back then---things like "the natural way" were used instead. Then word pregnant was not used either--things like--in a family way, were used instead. I just quoted what youjr prophets said.
conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God and that designation means what it says." Mormon Doctrine, (1979) Page 742.

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers."

Double speak---nowadays you are all very busily trying to twist words around to not sound lkike what it is. JS and BY and all those others would be horrified about how you've all changed their meanings! The truth is never an insult, it's just the truth.

 

[He is the way]

The word sex was not used back then---things like "the natural way" were used instead. Then word pregnant was not used either--things like--in a family way, were used instead. I just quoted what youjr prophets said.
conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God and that designation means what it says." Mormon Doctrine, (1979) Page 742.

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers."

Double speak---nowadays you are all very busily trying to twist words around to not sound lkike what it is. JS and BY and all those others would be horrified about how you've all changed their meanings! The truth is never an insult, it's just the truth.

It is not double speak and this is the subject of the sentence: for he is the Son of God and that designation means what it says. However, because of the poor wording it was changed. There is poor wording in the Bible also. God does not repent, nor does He lead people into temptation.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is not double speak and this is the subject of the sentence: for he is the Son of God and that designation means what it says. However, because of the poor wording it was changed. There is poor wording in the Bible also. God does not repent, nor does He lead people into temptation.

You can try and dance around it all you want---the words of your prophets says it plainly enough for anyone.

 

[He is the way]

You can try and dance around it all you want---the words of your prophets says it plainly enough for anyone.

You are just going to continue to beat a dead horse and make insinuations that don't pan out. No one is saying Jesus was not born to a virgin, No one is teaching that either. The whole premise of this thread is a lie. Wonder what happened to the person who started the thread. Perhaps they figured out that they were wrong.

 

[Peter1000]

When the term "the word of God" is used---it means the bible.
The bible is written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit---No angel came down to the bible writers and translated anything. The only thing God required translation of was the writing on the wall---very short translation.

Satan has gotten even more crafty---the bible warned us of that
2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

He did---worked so well, he'll probably do it again. He repeats what works.

You say it is the virgin birth---but you teach "conceived in the natural way"--the natural way consists of penile penetration and sperm and egg"---another example of stating 2 different opinions.

Your last sentence tells me a lot about how you think "conceived in the natural way" is all about.

You are aware that God, with the help of the Holy Spirit, can help a woman conceive, besides having a sexual experience with her. Can you tell me how?

Also tell me how a spirit (which is the form you think God is in) can cast a shadow on Mary as He stood over her in Luke 1:35? If God is a spirit, this form is like the wind or an essence, which is not material and does not have mass or weight. How can this spirit cast a shadow over Mary? Interesting verbiage isn't it that our man Luke uses as he was inspired of God Himself to write.

We have talked about this before and you have never been able to answer that question. So give it a try again now.

 

[mmksparbud]

Your last sentence tells me a lot about how you think "conceived in the natural way" is all about.

You are aware that God, with the help of the Holy Spirit, can help a woman conceive, besides having a sexual experience with her. Can you tell me how?

Also tell me how a spirit (which is the form you think God is in) can cast a shadow on Mary as He stood over her in Luke 1:35? If God is a spirit, this form is like the wind or an essence, which is not material and does not have mass or weight. How can this spirit cast a shadow over Mary? Interesting verbiage isn't it that our man Luke uses as he was inspired of God Himself to write.

We have talked about this before and you have never been able to answer that question. So give it a try again now.

I am not the one that is making the statement about Jesus being conceived in the same manner as all are conceived. You can play footsie all you want about it---anybody reading the statements made knows exactly what is meant. Your prophets never made the statement that Jesus was conceived by unnatural, supernatural means by the Holy Spirit--simple enough to say it--just as the bible says---
"for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. "

uk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

No--your propohets had to have a senseless discussions and innuendoes about what overshadow means.
They flat out denied that He was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit but that The Father and Mary conceived Him in the manner of all men and women----so please quit with the denials here of what they meant. The truth is that you are all desperately trying to make your more controversial believes seem more Christian now to gain more converts and acre distancing yourselves from some teachings---obscuring them and ignoring them and your new converts have no idea about what the basis of your believes were and still are to those that have the highest authority.

 

[mmksparbud]

Your last sentence tells me a lot about how you think "conceived in the natural way" is all about.

You are aware that God, with the help of the Holy Spirit, can help a woman conceive, besides having a sexual experience with her. Can you tell me how?

Also tell me how a spirit (which is the form you think God is in) can cast a shadow on Mary as He stood over her in Luke 1:35? If God is a spirit, this form is like the wind or an essence, which is not material and does not have mass or weight. How can this spirit cast a shadow over Mary? Interesting verbiage isn't it that our man Luke uses as he was inspired of God Himself to write.

We have talked about this before and you have never been able to answer that question. So give it a try again now.

I forgot about this one---there are 5 times the word is mentioned---here is the list and the translations that the word is found in. The KJV only states 2 times.

Gen 2:21

so the LORD God caused a deep sleep to overshadow the man.

ISV

Luk 1:35

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

KJV, HCSB, YLT, DARBY, NASB, ASV, NET, AM, J2000, LEB, WEB, WNT

Luk 9:34

While he was saying this, a cloud formed and began to overshadow them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.

NASB, AM


Act 5:15
them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them." data-verse-title="Acts 5:15" data-translation-id="27075" data-toggle="modal">
Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

KJV, YLT, DARBY, ASV, J2000, WEB


2 Cor 12:9

but His reply has been, "My grace suffices for you, for power matures in weakness." Most gladly therefore will I boast of my infirmities rather than complain of them--in order that Christ's power may overshadow me.

WNT

In only one verse s the word used to indicate an actual shadow, Acts 5:15

G1982 ►
ἐπισκιάζω


Transliteration
episkiazo;

Pronunciation
ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo


Parts of Speech
v

Root Word (Etymology)
from 1909 and a derivative of 4639


Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: TDNT 7:399


KJV Translation Count — 5x
The KJV translates Strongs H1 in the following manner: overshadow (5)


Outline of Biblical Usage
1. to throw a shadow upon, to envelop in a shadow, to overshadow
From a vaporous cloud that casts a shadow the word is transferred to a shining cloud surrounding and enveloping persons with brightness. Used of the Holy Spirit exerting creative energy upon the womb of the virgin Mary and impregnating it (a use of the word which seems to have been drawn from the familiar OT idea of a cloud as symbolising the immediate presence and power of God)


Strong's Definitions
ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo; from (1909) (ἐπί) and a derivative of (4639) (σκία); to cast a shade upon, i.e. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy; figurative to invest with preternatural influence: — overshadow.

Concordance Results Using KJV
Matt 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud G1982ed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

KJV

Mrk 9:7
And there was a cloud that G1982ed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

KJV

Luk 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall G1982 thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

KJV

Luk 9:34
While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and G1982ed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

KJV

Act 5:15
Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might G1982 some of them.

KJV

 

[Rescued One]

Now, my little friends, I will repeat again in words as simple as I can, and you talk to your parents about it, that God the Eternal Father, is literally the father or Jesus Christ. Joseph F. Smith, Box Elder Stake Conference, Dec. 20, 1914 as quoted in Brigham City Box Elder News, 28 Jan.1915, pp. 1-2

An Illustration and Discussion to Help Further Answer Jenny's Question:

At this point, discuss in your own words how Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. You might do this by using the following illustration on a chalkboard or piece of paper.

All boys and girls have a mother and father on earth. Your mother and father, of course, are mother and I. Jesus is the only person ever born on this earth that is different. Jesus had a mother on earth. What was her name? (Mary.) But who was his real father? (Heavenly Father). So you see, Jesus is the only person who had our Heavenly Father as the father of his body.
Family Home Evening Manual, 1972,p 126

If there was no physical act, the Father would not be the father of his body. Adam and Eve were made from dust and we descended from them. Joseph was not the father of Jesus.


Introduction to the Jesus Christ and the Everlasting Gospel Teacher Manual (Religion 250)

Anciently, news of the Savior’s birth was a glad tiding declared by many—God had sent His Son to redeem the world. “The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles”declares Jesus to be “the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world” (Ensign or Liahona, Apr. 2000, 2–3). In this lesson, students will come to know why it was critical that Jesus be born of a mortal mother and an immortal Father.

Display the following statement by Elder James E. Talmage (1862–1933) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and ask a student to read it aloud:

“That Child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim, the Eternal Father, not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof; … In His nature would be combined the powers of Godhood with the capacity and possibilities of mortality; and this through the ordinary operation of the fundamental law of heredity, declared of God, demonstrated by science, and admitted by philosophy, that living beings shall propagate—after their kind. The Child Jesus was to inherit the physical, mental, and spiritual traits, tendencies, and powers that characterized His parents—one immortal and glorified—God, the other human—woman” (Jesus the Christ, 3rd ed. [1916], 81
Lesson 7: Jesus Christ—God’s Only Begotten Son in the Flesh

The Mormon leaders weren't ashamed of this, but those who come here want to deny it publicly (obviously because we are not members of their religion.)

 

[Rescued One]

Purposes of Intimacy
President Lorenzo Snow
“Think of the promises that are made to you in the beautiful and glorious ceremony that is used in the marriage covenant in the temple. When two Latter-day Saints are united together in marriage, promises are made to them concerning their offspring, that reach from eternity to eternity. They are promised that they shall have the power and the right to govern and control and administer salvation and exaltation and glory to their offspring worlds without end. And what offspring they do not have here, undoubtedly there will be opportunities to have them hereafter. What else could man wish? A man and a woman in the other life, having celestial bodies, free from sickness and disease, glorified and beautified beyond description, standing in the midst of their posterity, governing and controlling them, administering life, exaltation, and glory, worlds without end” (Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, 138).
Intimacy in Marriage

KINDS OF RESURRECTED BODIES.
....PROCREATION LIMITED TO CELESTIAL BODIES. Some will gain celestial bodies with all the powers of exaltation and eternal increase....

In both of these kingdoms (terrestrial and telestial) there will be changes in the bodies and limitations. They will not have the power of increase, neither the power or nature to live as husbands and wives,(J/K) for this will be denied them and they cannot increase....

Some of the functions in the celestial body will not appear in the terrestrial body, neither in the telestial body, and the power of procreation will be removed. I take it that men and women will, in these kingdoms, be just what the so-called Christian world expects us all to be --- neither man nor woman, merely immortal beings having received the resurrection.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:286-287

 

[Peter1000]

I am not the one that is making the statement about Jesus being conceived in the same manner as all are conceived. You can play footsie all you want about it---anybody reading the statements made knows exactly what is meant. Your prophets never made the statement that Jesus was conceived by unnatural, supernatural means by the Holy Spirit--simple enough to say it--just as the bible says---
"for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. "

uk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

No--your propohets had to have a senseless discussions and innuendoes about what overshadow means.
They flat out denied that He was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit but that The Father and Mary conceived Him in the manner of all men and women----so please quit with the denials here of what they meant. The truth is that you are all desperately trying to make your more controversial believes seem more Christian now to gain more converts and acre distancing yourselves from some teachings---obscuring them and ignoring them and your new converts have no idea about what the basis of your believes were and still are to those that have the highest authority.

You have again ignored the word "overshadowed". Tell me again how a spirit can cast a shadow?

We admit that the Holy Spirit was there, in Mary to make sure the conception took place. We have no problem saying that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

But what you seem to miss is that you deny that the power of the Highest was involved also. It was the power of the Highest (God to you), that "overshadowed" Mary.

If Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit, what role did the power of the Highest play in this conception?

You ignore completely the role of the power of the Highest/God. Please address that point. Thank you.

 

[mmksparbud]

You have again ignored the word "overshadowed". Tell me again how a spirit can cast a shadow?

We admit that the Holy Spirit was there, in Mary to make sure the conception took place. We have no problem saying that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

But what you seem to miss is that you deny that the power of the Highest was involved also. It was the power of the Highest (God to you), that "overshadowed" Mary.

If Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit, what role did the power of the Highest play in this conception?

You ignore completely the role of the power of the Highest/God. Please address that point. Thank you.

What? You can't read what I posted??? Or you just igno9red it?

ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo; from (1909) (ἐπί) and a derivative of (4639) (σκία); to cast a shade upon, i.e. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy; figurative to invest with preternatural influence: — overshadow.


The problem with LS thinking is you can't ignore the writings of JS and think along the lines of just what the bible says and means. You have to interpret everything through the writings of JS.
As in creation--all three are involved in everything---
"and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters."
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

And everything is accomplished with God the Father also.

If you can't see it---it is simple---Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
The writings of JS are darkndess and can not be seen in the light of the true Holy Spirit.

 

[Peter1000]

I forgot about this one---there are 5 times the word is mentioned---here is the list and the translations that the word is found in. The KJV only states 2 times.

Gen 2:21

so the LORD God caused a deep sleep to overshadow the man.

ISV

Luk 1:35

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

KJV, HCSB, YLT, DARBY, NASB, ASV, NET, AM, J2000, LEB, WEB, WNT

Luk 9:34

While he was saying this, a cloud formed and began to overshadow them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.

NASB, AM


Act 5:15
them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them." data-verse-title="Acts 5:15" data-translation-id="27075" data-toggle="modal">
Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

KJV, YLT, DARBY, ASV, J2000, WEB


2 Cor 12:9

but His reply has been, "My grace suffices for you, for power matures in weakness." Most gladly therefore will I boast of my infirmities rather than complain of them--in order that Christ's power may overshadow me.

WNT

In only one verse s the word used to indicate an actual shadow, Acts 5:15

G1982 ►
ἐπισκιάζω


Transliteration
episkiazo;

Pronunciation
ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo


Parts of Speech
v

Root Word (Etymology)
from 1909 and a derivative of 4639


Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: TDNT 7:399


KJV Translation Count — 5x
The KJV translates Strongs H1 in the following manner: overshadow (5)


Outline of Biblical Usage
1. to throw a shadow upon, to envelop in a shadow, to overshadow
From a vaporous cloud that casts a shadow the word is transferred to a shining cloud surrounding and enveloping persons with brightness. Used of the Holy Spirit exerting creative energy upon the womb of the virgin Mary and impregnating it (a use of the word which seems to have been drawn from the familiar OT idea of a cloud as symbolising the immediate presence and power of God)


Strong's Definitions
ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo; from (1909) (ἐπί) and a derivative of (4639) (σκία); to cast a shade upon, i.e. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy; figurative to invest with preternatural influence: — overshadow.

Concordance Results Using KJV
Matt 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud G1982ed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

KJV

Mrk 9:7
And there was a cloud that G1982ed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

KJV

Luk 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall G1982 thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

KJV

Luk 9:34
While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and G1982ed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

KJV

Act 5:15
Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might G1982 some of them.

KJV

I'm not sure what kind of a case you are building for the word 'overshadow'.

It is plain common sense that in order for 'a' to overshadow 'b', 'a' has to be blocking whatever source of light that is present. And in order for 'a' to do that, 'a' has to have substance enough to block the light. So let's look at each scripture that you presented:
Genesis 2:21. To use the word 'overshadow' in this particular event is not a good translation. The KJV says that God cause a deep sleep to 'fall' upon the man. Even this word is not a good translation, because 'deep sleep' has no weight or movement, it cannot 'fall' or 'rise', it cannot 'overshadow' or 'cast a shadow'. So bad scripture for this kind of an event.

Luke 1:35. Now this is an event that took place were 'a' (the power of the Highest/God) blocked the light of the candle in the room, and cast a shadow over 'b' (Mary). The only way that 'a' casts the shadow is that it has enough substance to cause the light to be blocked from reaching 'b'.
That is why I am willing to say that Mary saw God in Luke 1:35.

Luke 9:34. Here a cloud formed with enough substance to block the rays of the sun from reaching the apostles. Hence the cloud 'overshadowed' the apostles. 'a' (the cloud) blocked the sun from reaching 'b' (the apostles) hence the 'overshadowing'.

Acts 5:15. Here again, 'a' (Peter) is blocking the sun from 'b' (the sick people) and so his body is 'is overshadowing' them.

2 Corinthians 12:9. This is again, a poor translation for the idea of 'overshadow'. The KJV again uses the word 'fall' which is a better translation. Christ's power is not an entity that would cast a shadow, so to use the word 'overshadow' is not very wise. You can say that the power of Christ came over me fell upon me, but since no shadow is cast, it did not 'overshadow'.

So if you were to ask anyone what is needed for 'a' to 'overshadow' 'b', there is a common answer you would receive, not some esoteric, mystical, sensual answer, but a common sense answer and that is what we use in Luke 1:35.

So I ask the question again, how can a spirit (which you believe God is in the form of) cast a shadow on Mary as she was conceiving? Spirit's do not cast shadows.

 

[Peter1000]

What? You can't read what I posted??? Or you just igno9red it?

ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo; from (1909) (ἐπί) and a derivative of (4639) (σκία); to cast a shade upon, i.e. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy; figurative to invest with preternatural influence: — overshadow.


The problem with LS thinking is you can't ignore the writings of JS and think along the lines of just what the bible says and means. You have to interpret everything through the writings of JS.
As in creation--all three are involved in everything---
"and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters."
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

And everything is accomplished with God the Father also.

If you can't see it---it is simple---Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
The writings of JS are darkndess and can not be seen in the light of the true Holy Spirit.

That is an interesting thought: Where was Jesus when the Holy Spirit had fallen upon Mary, and the power of the Highest was overshadowing her?