LDS Mormons deny the virgin birth

Christian Apologist

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Brigham Young, second prophet and president of the LDS church said,

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).

Brigham Young also said, "Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 51).

Brigham Young said, "When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, page 218, 1857.)

Joseph Fielding Smith, stated:

"The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit." (Religious Truths Defined, p. 44) as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1854, Sal Lake City, Utah 84110, Bookstore at 1350 South West Temple. 1982, page 260).

Joseph Fielding Smith said, "They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches no such thing! Neither does the Bible." (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 19)

Bruce McConkie, who was a member of the First Council of the Seventy stated,

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 547.)

"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events,...Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 742.)

Heber C. Kimball who was a member of the first presidency said,

"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 211)

"The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband" (Deseret News, October 10, 1866) as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1854, Sal Lake City, Utah 84110, Bookstore at 1350 South West Temple. 1982, page 261.

Holy Ghost and Mary.jpg
 

Ironhold

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This is what we're talking about when we tell you that you're relying too much on canned arguments.

Apologetics organization FAIR, for example, has 558 search results for "Adam-God Theory" on their website, with many of those articles, like this one - Question: What is the history of Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory and why was it rejected by the Church? - FairMormon - doing the kind of historical research that most critics don't ever bother doing.

And that's just one organization.

This one's done for.
 
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Christian Apologist

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This is what we're talking about when we tell you that you're relying too much on canned arguments.

Apologetics organization FAIR, for example, has 558 search results for "Adam-God Theory" on their website, with many of those articles, like this one - Question: What is the history of Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory and why was it rejected by the Church? - FairMormon - doing the kind of historical research that most critics don't ever bother doing.

And that's just one organization.

This one's done for.

My article was about the virgin birth and not about Brigham's Adam God teaching

Farms.jpg
 
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Christian Apologist

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I want to ask the Mormons, is it a possibility Mary had relations with heavenly Father to conceive Jesus? I'm not asking if it absolutely happened, only if it's possible.

Since Mormons believe in continuing revelation they must believe God the Father had sexual relationship with his spirit daughter who became flesh as Mary on this earth .
 
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Ironhold

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I want to ask the Mormons, is it a possibility Mary had relations with heavenly Father to conceive Jesus? I'm not asking if it absolutely happened, only if it's possible.

Quite simply?

It's not something most people give any thought to.

Young himself said to skip it, so that pretty much meant "it's not worth worrying about at this point".
 
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Christian Apologist

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Quite simply?

It's not something most people give any thought to.

Young himself said to skip it, so that pretty much meant "it's not worth worrying about at this point".

Could you give me the link to that quote, I always document my quotes or didn't he really say that ?
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Quite simply?

It's not something most people give any thought to.

Young himself said to skip it, so that pretty much meant "it's not worth worrying about at this point".

Not an answer to my question. I would like to know within Mormonism if it is a possibility, not whether you want to skip thinking about it. Given the material quoted by Christian Apologist and implication of Christ being conceived in a way as natural as you or I were conceived, what are we left to conclude? Only Mormons I've noticed, are so flippant with the words of Prophets that they can be ignored whenever inconvenient or challenging.

It certainty makes sense given the whole Mormon predisposition to make marriages the most important thing one can do. It's so important that even Heavenly Father is married and presumably can't have spirit children without his wive/wives.

The only problem comes into play is that God wasn't married to Mary in a temple ceremony, so It would be an illegitimate union or perhaps God can bypass the standard routes us mortals have to go through.
 
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He is the way

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I want to ask the Mormons, is it a possibility Mary had relations with heavenly Father to conceive Jesus? I'm not asking if it absolutely happened, only if it's possible.
No.
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 17:14)

14 Therefore, the Lord himself shall give you a sign—Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
 
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Brigham Young, second prophet and president of the LDS church said,

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).

Brigham Young also said, "Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 51).

Brigham Young said, "When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, page 218, 1857.)

Joseph Fielding Smith, stated:

"The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit." (Religious Truths Defined, p. 44) as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1854, Sal Lake City, Utah 84110, Bookstore at 1350 South West Temple. 1982, page 260).

Joseph Fielding Smith said, "They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches no such thing! Neither does the Bible." (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 19)

Bruce McConkie, who was a member of the First Council of the Seventy stated,

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 547.)

"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events,...Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 742.)

Heber C. Kimball who was a member of the first presidency said,

"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 211)

"The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband" (Deseret News, October 10, 1866) as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1854, Sal Lake City, Utah 84110, Bookstore at 1350 South West Temple. 1982, page 261.
The topic of this thread is another lie. Don't you realize that lying is against the commandments of God????????????????????????????????????????????? HELLO!!!!! Jesus was born the natural way the same way we were born, and He is the Son of God the Father in His exact likeness:

(New Testament | Hebrews 1:3)

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 17:14)

14 Therefore, the Lord himself shall give you a sign—Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 17:14)

14 Therefore, the Lord himself shall give you a sign—Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Do Mormons believe the Holy Spirit conceived Christ in Mary? How does this relate to the idea of the Jesus being the son of the Father? Or is he the son of the Father in a sense other than the conception of his physical body?
 
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He is the way

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Do Mormons believe the Holy Spirit conceived Christ in Mary? How does this relate to the idea of the Jesus being the son of the Father? Or is he the son of the Father in a sense other than the conception of his physical body?
We don't know how Jesus was conceived, but we do believe that He is the Son of God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. All others had fathers of the flesh except Adam.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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We don't know how Jesus was conceived, but we do believe that He is the Son of God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. All others had fathers of the flesh except Adam.

What does the bold mean? How was Jesus the son of the father in the flesh?
 
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Ironhold

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Could you give me the link to that quote, I always document my quotes or didn't he really say that ?

Looking for it now, but the gist of the statement was Young saying "I don't know why you're spending so much time disputing the hows and whys; it took place via wholly natural means, and that should be the end of it."
 
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What does the bold mean? How was Jesus the son of the father in the flesh?
I wanted to emphasize that Jesus is the the Son of God the Father and the only begotten in the flesh. We are all spirit sons and daughters of God, but Jesus has no earthly father.
 
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mmksparbud

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I wanted to emphasize that Jesus is the the Son of God the Father and the only begotten in the flesh. We are all spirit sons and daughters of God, but Jesus has no earthly father.

Except that there is no verse anywhere in the bible that states we are the spirit children of God and a heavenly mother.
 
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He is the way

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Except that there is no verse anywhere in the bible that states we are the spirit children of God and a heavenly mother.
You are right. there is nothing in the scriptures except maybe one verse in the Bible, but I don't want to get into that, too speculative.
 
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mmksparbud

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You are right. there is nothing in the scriptures except maybe one verse in the Bible, but I don't want to get into that, too speculative.

Yes---I know which one and we do not agree on that meaning even remotely.
 
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Looking for it now, but the gist of the statement was Young saying "I don't know why you're spending so much time disputing the hows and whys; it took place via wholly natural means, and that should be the end of it."

Is natural mean a virgin birth ?
 
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