Is it impossible to lose your salvation?

frogoon234 said:

ok thats fine. you did imply i had something major to fear on judgement day. Perhaps we all do but .....

I'll just ignore your posts in the future. I'll see you in heaven unless we meet in person some day which is probably doubtful.

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I don’t promise to ignore your posts. I’m glad i’m not telling people they’re going to heaven no matter what they do. Those who teach this will answer to him.

mark kennedy said:

There is not such thing as once saved always saved, it's a strawman argument. Eternal security is synonymous with eternal life, if it's not forever it's not salvation and never was.

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i agree with this. There are other ways of punishing or disciplining a christian or a saved person than giving them everlasting suffering. I think alot of people who get saved live such a comfortable life style and forget that plenty of people out there are very uncomfortable. For me right now i'm happy but i'll leave that aside for right now (nothing is wrong with being comfortable). We as christians shouldn't have hope for everlasting suffering for neither the christian nor the non christian. Suffering is bad. Does anyone out there need me to explain to them what suffering feels like. This is a real issue. I'm sure you all have suffered before. And no i'm really not goading anyone. We all have the tendency of getting into theology and we forget what really is at stake here. In addition to this i believe like all of you the Bible is the word of God/Jesus.

fhansen said:

IMO, we have to understand that faith is not an escape from the obligation for man to be obedient or righteous, rather it's the authentic means to it. Because faith establishes relationship or communion with God, the relationship that Adam broke, the relationship man cannot have any true, satisfying, abundant life without.

We're justified via faith, because the resulting communion, itself, is a chief aspect of man's justice or righteousness which then opens the door to the "righteousness of God" that man was created to possess, a righteousness most fully described and defined by the term "love", God's very own nature that we're to be transformed into.

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yeah this is true but to say Jesus needs to send a christian to suffer for all eternity isn't neccessarily Biblical nor is it neccesarily rational. The old testament says Jesus takes no pleasure when any man dies (this includes second death). As for me i'm not worried about me losing my salvation. If some people want to worry about me losing my salvation then they can keep worrying (assuming they are really worrying). There are plenty of ways Jesus can discipline me in this lifetime as well as the next. The new testament says that the christian's judgement will come in this lifetime. Suffering can lead to bad decisions. We need to be wise about when to suffer and when to just accept that there are some things that are outside of our control.

mark kennedy said:

There is not such thing as once saved always saved, it's a strawman argument. Eternal security is synonymous with eternal life, if it's not forever it's not salvation and never was.

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That’s like saying that if a marriage ends in divorce it was NEVER a marriage. Or if you received a gift and lost it, it was never given to you. Your statement insists that there is no such thing as time and choice and change. For this position, if anything changes, it was NEVER real. We don’t live like that cause it’s not true.

www.biblegateway.com has a search feature for just about every version of the Bible (atleast all the English versions atleast). This is great for quickly finding topics and then reading chapters or a set of chapters that pertain to that topic.

If there is any doubt about what will happen on judgment day, here's what Jesus says about it:

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Dorothy Mae said:

That’s like saying that if a marriage ends in divorce it was NEVER a marriage. Or if you received a gift and lost it, it was never given to you. Your statement insists that there is no such thing as time and choice and change. For this position, if anything changes, it was NEVER real. We don’t live like that cause it’s not true.

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Actually your arguing that the promise of the gospel os conditional, based on performance. This implies special merit on the part of the redeemed. I never said you can't lose salvation, I said you can only lose it once. You don't keep losingband regaining salvation over and over, that's a mockery of the gospel.

Kenny'sID said:

You made that up.

if you disagree, would you please show us where you got that idea, and I'll give benefit of the doubt/hold further comment on why you would do that until after you answer.

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sure the comment was i quote "I would be careful assuring them they can’t no matter what they do or fail to do." the poster i just quoted was replying to a post on one loosing salvation and salvation is by faith and faith alone. i don't see the posters view as biblical, also by the posters other remarks in implying that works need to be added to salvation in order to be right with God. these notions are coming from you guys and your posts, it is what you are saying all i'm doing is responding. you seem to have a preconceived notion that i am saying sin sin and sin all you want nothing could be further from the truth. meanwhile as i continue to answer your questions mine are never answered.

what is repentance?
lets say you sin how do you repent personally?
john 10:28-29
ephesians 2:8-9
ephesians 1:13
revelation 3:5
taking the first three scriptures and applying them to revelation 3:5

lets have a discussion about the substance of the points of view here. i know you think i'm super sneaky guy out to do whatever you think i'm out to do but if that's the case beat me on substance. if not you can have the last word on this thread. i'm open to the conversation are you.

Gods not mad said:

sure the comment was i quote "I would be careful assuring them they can’t no matter what they do or fail to do." the poster i just quoted was replying to a post on one loosing salvation and salvation is by faith and faith alone. i don't see the posters view as biblical, also by the posters other remarks in implying that works need to be added to salvation in order to be right with God. these notions are coming from you guys and your posts, it is what you are saying all i'm doing is responding. you seem to have a preconceived notion that i am saying sin sin and sin all you want nothing could be further from the truth. meanwhile as i continue to answer your questions mine are never answered.

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All I wanted to know was if you made that up or not. And glad we agree on the basics here. As far as not getting any answers to your questions,
if I'm not mistaken and those non answers are not coming from OSASr's, that is very common. They tend to skip altogether posts or scripture that would incriminate them.

As far as thinking you're sneaky, not at all...never crossed my mind that I know of.

Sure, I think a few of us are up for continuing the discussion..

SeventhFisherofMen said:

Please explain what you do to convince yourself of the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine.

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First you have to listen to a bunch of false teachers.


Then just ignore the many passages of scripture that teach the truth.


Poof, you have now convinced yourself of the Once Saved Always Saved Doctrine.



JLB

Kenny'sID said:

If there is any doubt about what will happen on judgment day, here's what Jesus says about it:

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

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As you are well aware of, the works of Jesus Christ are accounted to the Christian as though they are the Christian's works (God provides a sacrifice for Abraham to make instead of him offering his own son). Scripture does not contradict scripture as you are well aware of. Scripture edifies (read multi dimensional graph) scripture. When we come to salvation we a convicted of our sin and quite often we suffer due to our guilt temporarily (Abraham never sacrificed his son but his guilt towards the notion of God's righteousness moved him temporarily to deep anguish). I believe salvation from eternal suffering is as simple as accepting Jesus's sacrifice on the cross and that this is sufficient (key phrase "my grace is sufficient) in keeping a person eternally saved from eternally suffering in hell. Abraham accepted the sacrifice (the goat or lamb) that was found on the mountain after his suffering when asked to sacrifice his own son. He accepted that sacrifice and he took that spotless animal and he sacrificed it.

A person's salvation from eternal suffering is eternally held by their one time acceptance (on faith) of Jesus's sacrifice on the cross. IMO

Dorothy Mae said:

Whete do you get that idea from what I wrote?

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sure the comment was i quote "I would be careful assuring them they can’t no matter what they do or fail to do." you were replying to a post on one loosing salvation and salvation is by faith and faith alone. i don't see the your view as biblical, your other remarks in implying that works need to be added to salvation in order to be right with God. these notions are coming from you guys and your posts, it is what you are saying all i'm doing is responding. you seem to have a preconceived notion that i am saying sin sin and sin all you want nothing could be further from the truth. meanwhile as i continue to answer your questions mine are never answered.

Dorothy Mae said:

You don’t know me st all.

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but i read your words

Dorothy Mae said:

What law did I beat someone with? Love God?

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the law of works if you are guilty of one law broken one is guilty of the whole law. in trying to fulfill salvation by a good work then the law is the judge of that work. your faith in the finished work is all God will accept. good works come from faith but good works are not responsible for salvation.

Dorothy Mae said:

Easy. Their thinking matches Christ’s.

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yes that is correct, but does your thinking ever not match Christs i know mine does?

Dorothy Mae said:

It’s not a gift for sure. Doesn’t come by works either.

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ok this is an interesting one that really is the only two options is there a third? the mind of Christ is imparted to us as a gift resulting from the finished work on the cross. i really would like to hear what the third option is.

Dorothy Mae said:

No I don’t set myself up as anything. You just accuse me.

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i am not accusing you i am pointing out that if you believe on can lose salvation by not performing works then the finished work on the cross was not sufficient. when was the last time you did the things you tell others they can be lost in doing.

Dorothy Mae said:

Where did Paul write, “I did not need to do anything cause all my trust is in christ to do everything for me.”

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philippians 4:13 if you believe i'm saying we just need to sit on the couch and stare at the wall that is ridiculous but good works that are accepted by Christ are those through faith not a belief of one doing them to earn salvation or please God so you will be accepted by him,

Dorothy Mae said:

Pretty sure God doesn’t feel slapped in the face when we give a thirsty child a cup of cold Water...or visit those in prison...or feed the hungry...

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never said he did but if we do these things in an attempt to earn salvation yes he does then good works result from faith but are not necessary for salvation.

Dorothy Mae said:

First you answer my questions to you. You seem intent on falsely accusing me of wrong.

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ok this is the 2nd maybe third time you have said this to me and every time i have complied and answered your questions but my question to you has still gone unanswered. just because you don't like my answer does not mean i'm not answering them keep that in mind. so here are some i would like answered.

what is repentance?
lets say you sin how do you repent personally?
john 10:28-29
ephesians 2:8-9
ephesians 1:13
revelation 3:5
taking the first three scriptures and applying them to revelation 3:5

if not you can have the last word on this thread. i'm open to the conversation are you.

Kenny'sID said:

All I wanted to know was if you made that up or not. And glad we agree on the basics here. As far as not getting any answers to your questions,
if I'm not mistaken and those non answers are not coming from OSASr's, that is very common. They tend to skip altogether posts or scripture that would incriminate them.

As far as thinking you're sneaky, not at all...never crossed my mind that I know of.

Sure, I think a few of us are up for continuing the discussion..

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in all fairness your statement was ''you made that up'' implying well i made it up. what ever the OSASr's are doing is not up to me i'm willing to answer questions which i have been doing through out this whole forum.
as far as me being a sneaky guy or someone with an agenda this was my interpretation of your comments see post #58,66,68,74
i asked you about the lambs book of life in post #73
also,

what is repentance?
lets say you sin how do you repent personally?
john 10:28-29
ephesians 2:8-9
ephesians 1:13
revelation 3:5
taking the first three scriptures and applying them to revelation 3:5

listen you are my brother in the Lord regardless of what you think of me. because of the blood and the blood alone we will dwell together with the Lord one day. i am perfect in no way nor do i claim to know everything because i don't. but one thing that is evident to me personally is i continue to answer questions but mine are discarded as oh their those OSACers go again bunch of crazy people. sheesh.

i'll catch up with later.

Gods not mad said:

sure the comment was i quote "I would be careful assuring them they can’t no matter what they do or fail to do." the poster i just quoted was replying to a post on one loosing salvation and salvation is by faith and faith alone. i don't see the posters view as biblical, also by the posters other remarks in implying that works need to be added to salvation in order to be right with God. these notions are coming from you guys and your posts, it is what you are saying all i'm doing is responding. you seem to have a preconceived notion that i am saying sin sin and sin all you want nothing could be further from the truth. meanwhile as i continue to answer your questions mine are never answered.

what is repentance?
lets say you sin how do you repent personally?
john 10:28-29
ephesians 2:8-9
ephesians 1:13
revelation 3:5
taking the first three scriptures and applying them to revelation 3:5

lets have a discussion about the substance of the points of view here. i know you think i'm super sneaky guy out to do whatever you think i'm out to do but if that's the case beat me on substance. if not you can have the last word on this thread. i'm open to the conversation are you.

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Well said, you hit on the key question, what is repentance. It is rather curious this question is rarely asked and and I've never seen it answered. In addition terms like 'commandments, works and salvation' are never defined but if you want them to spam walls of vetses taken out of context, often certain ones happily provide it

frogoon234 said:

yeah this is true but to say Jesus needs to send a christian to suffer for all eternity isn't neccessarily Biblical nor is it neccesarily rational. The old testament says Jesus takes no pleasure when any man dies (this includes second death). As for me i'm not worried about me losing my salvation. If some people want to worry about me losing my salvation then they can keep worrying (assuming they are really worrying). There are plenty of ways Jesus can discipline me in this lifetime as well as the next. The new testament says that the christian's judgement will come in this lifetime. Suffering can lead to bad decisions. We need to be wise about when to suffer and when to just accept that there are some things that are outside of our control.

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Ok. I certainly don't think Jesus would send a Christian to hell but a Christian is more than a person who simply wears that name-they're a person who walks a certain way, regardless of their talk. And while I'd agree that we should have an assurance of salvation as long as we're walking the walk, I'd only argue that we should't have over-confidence about it, as if nothing we could do could take away our "Christian status" or compromise our relationship with God. We simply cannot put the cart ahead of the horse; we can't predict with 100% certainty who will persevere and who will not. While God is perfectly trustworthy and true, we can still be the wildcard in it all.

fhansen said:

Ok. I certainly don't think Jesus would send a Christian to hell but a Christian is more than a person who simply wears that name-they're a person who walks a certain way, regardless of their talk. And while I'd agree that we should have an assurance of salvation as long as we're walking the walk, I'd only argue that we should't have over-confidence about it, as if nothing we could do could take away our "Christian status" or compromise our relationship with God. We simply cannot put the cart ahead of the horse; we can't predict with 100% certainty who will persevere and who will not. While God is perfectly trustworthy and true, we can still be the wildcard in it all.

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thats fair. For the most part i don't have a problem with this. In Revelation i think it is, Jesus says that we should be willing to die due to persecution if thats what it means not to sway to far from the flock. I could find the verse but i'll find it later. Its something like "they did not hate their lives even too the point they were willing to die". As you well know a christian needs to believe in Jesus's overcoming death and we need to be willing to die rather than completely compromise our christian values. As we all know lying is extremely dangerous.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Revelation 12:11

Gods not mad said:

sure the comment was i quote "I would be careful assuring them they can’t no matter what they do or fail to do." you were replying to a post on one loosing salvation and salvation is by faith and faith alone.

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What a man has faith in matters? Faith in false theology doesn’t count.

If you decide to assure someone they’re not going to hell and you’re wrong, it’s pretty bad.
You’re not the judge.

i don't see the your view as biblical, your other remarks in implying that works need to be added to salvation in order to be right with God.

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I’m very sure your view is not biblical. Jesus told one guy he needed to sell everything and follow him. He told a lot of people to follow him. How come they didn’t need to just have the right thinking?

these notions are coming from you guys and your posts, it is what you are saying all i'm doing is responding.

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You respond to that which I didn’t say.
You just make it up.

you seem to have a preconceived notion that i am saying sin sin and sin all you want nothing could be further from the truth. meanwhile as i continue to answer your questions mine are never answered.

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Never said any such thing.

but i read your words

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No, you respond to what I didn’t say.

the law of works if you are guilty of one law broken one is guilty of the whole law. in trying to fulfill salvation by a good work then the law is the judge of that work. your faith in the finished work is all God will accept. good works come from faith but good works are not responsible for salvation.

Can you capitalize the first word in your sentences?

yes that is correct, but does your thinking ever not match Christs i know mine does?

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Absolutely sure yours does not. You don’t have the interests of God but man.

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mark kennedy said:

Actually your arguing that the promise of the gospel os conditional, based on performance.

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Doe salvation depend upon repentance? Is that performance? Can one be saved and never repent of their sins? What about believing? Is that performance? Why not?

This implies special merit on the part of the redeemed. I never said you can't lose salvation, I said you can only lose it once. You don't keep losingband regaining salvation over and over, that's a mockery of the gospel.

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The problem with your position is the focus is solely on going to Heaven. Your position sees only having salvation. Loving God or man is not a part of the equation. They are not necessary in your theology it seems. So you ask questions that focus on losing that as though that’s all there is.

JLB777 said:

First you have to listen to a bunch of false teachers.

Then just ignore the many passages of scripture that teach the truth.

Poof, you have now convinced yourself of the Once Saved Always Saved Doctrine.

JLB

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That’s how it seems to work for some. The appeal is so that one can behave any way one wants and be assured of heaven. This leaven works itself into the heart so that little by little, the freedom to sin takes over. Love of God and man is short-cut. Instead love of the doctrine of OSAS takes over. And when threatened, they bite. Oh not at first, but with the years.