CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION BY NOT BEING FAITHFUL TO THE END?

LoveGodsWord said:

And who are God's Sheep, His true Church or His true people?

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Gracia Singh said:

Yep! Sure can. Sadly.

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Gracia Singh said:

Yep! Sure can. Sadly.

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Basil the Great said:

It seems like a dangerous bet to take a chance that one cannot lose his or her salvation. It almost is akin to Russian Roulette. Dare we risk putting a gun to our head, to see if the bullet fires or not?

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LoveGodsWord said:

According to God's WORD, it is only those that are faithful to the end that will be saved. What does this mean?

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23
[12], Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13], Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.....
[23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

ROMANS 6:22 [22], But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.

REVELATION 2:26 [26], And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations

2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 [1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1 PETER 4:18 [18], And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

MATTHEW 13:18-23 [18], Hear you therefore the parable of the sower.
[19], When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then comes the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. [20], But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it; [21], Yet has he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution rises because of the word, by and by he is offended. [22], He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.[23], But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundred times, some sixty, some thirty.

REVELATION 2:26 And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

REVELATION 3:5
He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him my new name.

REVELATION 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

REVELATION 21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

According to God's WORD salvation is for those who "continue in the faith" (Colossians 1:23). Those who do not "give place to the devil" (Ephesians 4:27), will not grieve the Spirit by believing the lie that they may not cease to endure to the end. "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (4:30). Not only is it necessary for the Saints to endure or persevere to the end; but at the same time, both the Father and the Son have promised to preserve those who "continue in the faith". "28 And I give unto them Eternal Life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. 29 My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand" (John 10:28-29). This relationship where the Saints Endure While God Preserves was best expressed by the LORD Jesus: "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work" (John 5:17).

Questions for discussion;

1. Can we lose our salvation? (linked to answer)

2. What does it mean only those that are faithful to the end will be saved?

3. Saved from what?

4. Is anyone saved while living in a life of known unrepentant sin?

Only friendly discussion please and please provide scriptures for your claims.

God bless.

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St_Worm2 said:

Hi LoveGodsWord, we don't "start off" following God's word, we start off by believing/coming to saving faith in Jesus and in what He did for us. Everything we do (after that point) as a Christian is the result of our believing (as well, of course, the result of everything that God did in us/changed in us to make our coming to saving faith in Christ and becoming a true Christian possible .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:4-5).

We who hear and then come to saving faith in Jesus, come into possession of "eternal life" from the moment we first believe (not temporal or probationary life). We will not stand, nor be judged and condemned in the Judgement (Great White Throne) along with the reprobate, because we have, in fact, already passed from death to life .. John 5:24.

Rather, we who are His are made wholly new creatures in Christ .. 2 Corinthians 5:17, made His workmanship ~FOR~ good works, not because of them .. Ephesians 2:8-10.

Titus 3
He saved us, NOT on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy.​

Those who are not already Christians/not born again and justified by God, neither know nor can they obey God .. see cf Matthew 7:22-23; e.g. 1 Corinthians 1:18, 2:14.


No one who has come to 'saving' faith will turn back to their former ways of sinful living (or worse) and not seek forgiveness, repent and return to the faith/to God, at least before the end, because God preserves us/makes sure that those of us who are truly His will persevere (even if highly imperfectly throughout our days here) .. e.g. Philippians 1:6, 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25; 1 John 5:13.

If He did not, Jesus' promise to us that He will lose NONE of those who are His (none of those who were drawn and given to Him by His Father) could not possibly be true.

John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
ALL that the Father gives Me WILL come to Me, and .. of ALL that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.
​

This is getting to be quite a bit longer than I intended. I will finish my reply to you in my next post.

--David

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LoveofTruth said:

Jesus said none were lost except Judas

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St_Worm2 said:

Hi LoveofTruth, none of the 12 were lost .. as His Apostles .. except the son of perdition. Judas died as a non-believer prior to Jesus' death and Resurrection, so he was never saved (no one, including the 11 Apostles who remained, were saved until ~after~ the Resurrection .. cf John 20:8; Romans 3:25-26).

So I believe that Jesus words to us in John 6:39 are true as written, that He loses ~none~ of us who are truly His, not even one

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - Judas was part of Jesus' innermost circle throughout His ministry years. As such, he knew the truth about Jesus, but he rejected Him anyway. Judas was a kind of ultimate prototype (if you will) for the people that the passage below was written about, Jews who were part of the 1st Century church, who had received the truth about Jesus and fully understood who He was, but they rejected Him anyway. So no sacrifice for sins remained, for them or for Judas, only a terrifying expectation of judgment.

Hebrews 10
26 If we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.​

.

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LoveofTruth said:

All of the twelve were saved and belonged to the fathe even before they met Jesus at one time.

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St_Worm2 said:

Hi LoveofTruth, how can anyone be saved who has not had his/her sins atoned for and been forgiven by God, who has not been justified by the blood of Christ?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - there were a ton of animal sacrifices in the OT that were made by/for the people of God, but we know that none of them saved anyone.

Hebrews 9
22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
.​

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LoveofTruth said:

It’s a long discussion but this section might help

Psalm 51:7. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.8. Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.9. Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.10. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.11. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.12. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.”

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St_Worm2 said:

Hi @Jen35, you make some excellent points

Also, I see that you are still pretty new around here, so WELCOME TO CF

--David

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St_Worm2 said:

Hi again LoveofTruth, I understand what you are saying, and why you are pointing to this passage as an example of what you mean (it's a good one), but we know that King David's sins were not forgiven by the blood of the bulls and the goats that he sacrificed in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so how were his sins actually forgiven then?

I believe the passage I posited from Romans 3 above helps explain it. In His forbearance, God chose to pass over David's sins (like He did with all of the rest of the OT saints) by withholding the punishment that was justly due for them until the day they could be forgiven by the blood of His Son, by the blood of the only, true Sacrifice for our sins.

No sins were truly/actually forgiven before Jesus died on the Cross because they could not be.

--David

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St_Worm2 said:

Hi again LoveofTruth, I understand what you are saying, and why you are pointing to this passage as an example of what you mean (it's a good one), but we know that King David's sins were not forgiven by the blood of the bulls and the goats that he sacrificed in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so how were his sins actually forgiven then?

I believe the passage I posited from Romans 3 above helps explain it. In His forbearance, God chose to pass over David's sins (like He did with all of the rest of the OT saints) by withholding the punishment that was justly due for them until the day they could be forgiven by the blood of His Son, by the blood of the only, true Sacrifice for our sins.

No sins were truly/actually forgiven before Jesus died on the Cross because they could not be.

--David

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