A Biblical Case For Repentance

Not David · Feb 5, 2019

Just_a_Christian said:
Just a few more notes on this, since you brought up Ignatius. I see something going on here that seems very suspect and can explain how the "Catholic" church got so far off track. Just upon studying God's word each of the New Testament churches were autonomous. It is very evident from reading Revelation that each church was responsible for its own spiritual health. There was no intermediary between the church and Christ. Christ is the only, perfect Mediator between us and God. Jesus is our only priest, our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. Ignatius states, "the bishop" signifying the bishop stands between the church and Jesus. The New Testament never even hints at this possibility. The titles of bishop and elder have always been used interchangeably in the New Testament. Bishops and elders are the same thing, overseers. See Titus 1:5-9 where Paul uses both terms interchangeably. Paul instructs Titus to ordain/appoint elders/bishops, not singular but plural and gives the qualifications of the office. Acts 14 they also ordained elders at every church. The New Testament church had elders or bishops over each church and they also had deacons. Elders/bishops were to oversee the church; they were responsible to see that the church remained sound in doctrine and to settle matters that always arise from time to time. If we weren't human, there would be no need of elders/bishops. The role of the deacon is that of the worker or server. This could very easily be where the New Testament church first began to drift, if you will. This "man implemented" extra importance on "the" bishop morphed throughout time all the way to the pope who sits himself up as head of Christ's church today. You know as well as I do what happens anytime "man" is given too much authority, if we can know this, you can be assured that God knows this. The hierarchy of the New Testament church was done that way for a reason. No one church or person has a stranglehold on salvation or the gospel of Christ. Be honest, ask yourself this question. If 2, 3 or 4 people, let's say in Singapore or anywhere, started studying the Bible and followed it's instruction and they believed in Jesus as the son of God and they all agreed on that fact. They all repented, started trying to live their lives like Christ. They then wanted to be baptized for forgiveness of their sins, in the name the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost. Upon being baptized would they not be members of the body of Christ?? Granted, it would be easier if they had a spiritually mature Christian guiding them, but isn't that what we are commanded to do brother??
In Him

Sorry that you think the Church was so weak that you believe it stopped existing. This is the result of Protestantism: Christian relativism.

Just_a_Christian · Feb 5, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Sorry that you think the Church was so weak that you believe it stopped existing. This is the result of Protestantism: Christian relativism.

I didnt say it stopped existing, did I? Are you saying that you do not believe Christ foretold of the falling away? How can it be that the falling away was caused by the protestant movement?? The church was deep into apostasy, selling Indulgences and the likes well before the protestant movement, and yet you are going to blame them??
Seriously?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 5, 2019

Fidelibus said:
Again, The verses you provided do not show "The" sinner's prayer such as this version:

"“Dear Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and the wages of sin is death. You sent your Son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins. I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I ask Jesus to come into my heart. I know my sins are now all forgiven past, present and future. Thank you Jesus for saving me and assuring my entrance into heaven. Amen."

So are you acknowledging that the sinners prayer I provided is a man-made practice/tradition? i.e. unbiblical?

I have to disagree, it's not what I want to see, it's what I don't see. Pretty sure St.Paul and St. Peter never advocated "the" sinner's prayer on the day of Pentecost.

I agree, this is why I no longer believe in the unbiblical. man-made doctrine of sola scriptura.

If you reject the teachings of the Catholic Church and the doctrine of papal primacy which upholds the divine authority of the Successor of St. Peter to rule over the entire Church with ordinary and immediate jurisdiction, then you are 'protesting' against the Catholic Church and therefore a Protestant.

Let me guess....2 Tim.3:16-17? Unfortunately, adherents to sola scriptura often fail to quote St.Paul's appeal to apostolic tradition (vs.14) right before they quote verses 16-17. In this verse, there is an appeal to tradition before there is an appeal to the Scriptures, adherents to sola scriptura ignore this fact.

With that being said, and you believing in sola scriptura, could you show using Scripture alone how the Canon of Scripture was Determined?

Would you agree that any or all of what you say to believe above, and being fallible, could be in error?

Have a Blessed Day Jason

This thread is not about Catholicism, Protestantism, the divine preservation of God’s Word, and or Sola Scriptura. It is about the Sinner’s Prayer within the Bible.

Anyways, again you fail to provide an explanation to each point I brought up with Scripture in post #2. Until then, your false assertion that the Bible does not teach the Sinner’s Prayer is an illusion at best. In other words, I don’t accept your answer as a valid argument against the points I made. Neither will anyone else accept your answer if they are the kind of person who plainly reads the Scriptures. Until you explain them, I am going to just assume you don’t actually know what those verses I brought forth even say (because you deny their plain and obvious meaning). Again, your argument is silly at best. The Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee in Luke 18 blows your argument out of the water. The Tax Collector beat his chest and said to God in having mercy on his sins.

Fidelibus · Feb 5, 2019

Just_a_Christian said:
The catholic church was deep into apostasy, selling Indulgences and the likes well before the protestant movement, and yet you are going to blame them??

Could you provide a firm date, along with authentic historical documents showing the names of those who were involved in this "Great Apostasy you speak of?

Also, If what you are claiming is true, and after century after century of many genuine historical writings from historians and early Christian writers, there shouldn't be a problem with you showing a date as well as providing authentic historical documentation of the apostasy of the Catholic Church you speak of.

Thank you

timothyu · Feb 5, 2019

Fidelibus said:
Also, If what you are claiming is true, and after century after century of many genuine historical writings from historians and early Christian writers, there shouldn't be a problem with you showing a date as well as providing authentic historical documentation of the apostasy of the Catholic Church you speak of.

Does that serve the will of man or the will of God?

Fidelibus · Feb 5, 2019

Jason0047 said:
This thread is not about Catholicism, Protestantism, the divine preservation of God’s Word, and or Sola Scriptura. It is about the Sinner’s Prayer within the Bible.

The title of your thread is....."Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?" ..... singular prayer, not prayers, as in plural.

The Sinner's Prayer I am familiar with used during an Altar Call goes as.....

"Dear Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and the wages of sin is death. You sent your Son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins. I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I ask Jesus to come into my heart. I know my sins are now all forgiven past, present and future. Thank you Jesus for saving me and assuring my entrance into heaven. Amen."

And you as a Sola Scripturists, all I am asking is..... would you acknowledge that this prayer is a man-made practice/tradition? i.e. unbiblical? I say yes..... un-biblical. And you??....Yes, or No? It's not really that difficult of a question.

Thank You

Fidelibus · Feb 5, 2019

timothyu said:
Does that serve the will of man or the will of God?

Hey... if just_a_christian is going to make these accusations, (very serious accusations I might add) do you not believe proof to back up these accusations would be in order?

timothyu · Feb 5, 2019

Fidelibus said:
Hey... if just_a_christian is going to make these accusations, (very serious accusations I might add) do you not believe proof to back up these accusations would be in order?

It applies to either side. That of the world of man is of no concern to God.

worshipjunkie · Feb 5, 2019

Fidelibus said:
The title of your thread is....."Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?" ..... singular prayer, not prayers, as in plural.

The Sinner's Prayer I am familiar with used during an Altar Call goes as.....

"Dear Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and the wages of sin is death. You sent your Son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins. I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I ask Jesus to come into my heart. I know my sins are now all forgiven past, present and future. Thank you Jesus for saving me and assuring my entrance into heaven. Amen."

And you as a Sola Scripturists, all I am asking is..... would you acknowledge that this prayer is a man-made practice/tradition? i.e. unbiblical? I say yes..... un-biblical. And you??....Yes, or No? It's not really that difficult of a question.

I think prayer vs. prayers is just how it sounds grammatically. Kind of like "The Lord's Prayer" even though there are multiple prayers of His recorded in Scripture. But I agree prayers is a more accurate term.

I would certainly not say that the prayer is un-Biblical (I think the first few posts in this thread address that). And people were being told to believe and repent in Biblical times. It being done through prayer at least initially; no, I would not say is extra Biblical or man made. Any specific prayer- yes, that would be man made. The words are; the sentiment is in the Scripture.

Where this differs from Catholic or Orthodox prayers that are written by man is another thread.

Just_a_Christian · Feb 5, 2019

Fidelibus said:
Hey... if just_a_christian is going to make these accusations, (very serious accusations I might add) do you not believe proof to back up these accusations would be in

Hit the wrong key b back in a sec

Just_a_Christian · Feb 5, 2019

Fidelibus said:
Hey... if just_a_christian is going to make these accusations, (very serious accusations I might add) do you not believe proof to back up these accusations would be in order?

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thessalonians 2:1-9
Paul here is of course speaking to the Christians at Thessaloniki and apparently they had been questions concerning the 2nd coming of Christ. If you believe the Bible to be the infallible work of God, which I do, this falling away is assured. Depending upon who you ask the epistle was inspired around 52 AD, others will say around 95 AD. Paul further informs them/us that the process had already started at the time the epistle was penned. This abasement would require not just a few years but likely a few hundreds of years. Like very gradually pulling a blind over someone's eyes. There are a number of declarations which are glaring inconsistencies with the Bible. One merely needs to use google to find the date. On a side note: our 1st amendment of the constitution was done for a reason, contrary to popular opinion today, it was NOT to keep the church out of the government.
In Him

Bible Highlighter · Feb 6, 2019

Fidelibus said:
The title of your thread is....."Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?" ..... singular prayer, not prayers, as in plural.

The Sinner's Prayer I am familiar with used during an Altar Call goes as.....

"Dear Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and the wages of sin is death. You sent your Son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins. I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I ask Jesus to come into my heart. I know my sins are now all forgiven past, present and future. Thank you Jesus for saving me and assuring my entrance into heaven. Amen."

And you as a Sola Scripturists, all I am asking is..... would you acknowledge that this prayer is a man-made practice/tradition? i.e. unbiblical? I say yes..... un-biblical. And you??....Yes, or No? It's not really that difficult of a question.

Thank You

If the Sinner's Prayer is spoken in general terms or in another way (and it is - See the Parable of the Tax Collector in Luke 18:9-14), there does not need to be a detailed script for the Sinner's Prayer. Your failure to understand this basic concept is only your own illusion that you want to see.

So until you explain the points I made in Scripture in defense of the Sinner's Prayer in Post #2, your wasting your time in replying. Your basically just hitting the disagree button over an excuse that makes no sense.

But believe whatever you want to believe if that makes you happy; Just know your opinion or feelings is not Scripture.

timothyu · Feb 6, 2019

Whether as change or forgiveness or both, the bottom line is from what/for what. If a person does not know why what they did was wrong in God's eyes, saying sorry or switching sides won't cut it.

New Birth · Feb 6, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Sorry that you think the Church was so weak that you believe it stopped existing. This is the result of Protestantism: Christian relativism.

The Protestants did not Protest against The Church they just protested against parts of the Catholic religion.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 6, 2019

timothyu said:
Whether as change or forgiveness or both, the bottom line is from what/for what. If a person does not know why what they did was wrong in God's eyes, saying sorry or switching sides won't cut it.

Nobody is suggesting a mindless unbiblical recitation of some words here. The Sinner's Prayer is a part of believing in the Lord as one's Savior and honestly seeking forgiveness with Jesus (God).

kkamagwi · Feb 6, 2019

Jesus' God and Savior of all missionaries, and his command of means and riches is such as to make him able to dispense his grace's riches to each and every one, and to all together, that call upon him in faith, who worship him as their God. To worship God's identical with worshiping Jesus. Missionaries worship Jesus as God. Their worshiping's their faith's fruit. And by that faith, they take hold upon salvation, they're saved by Jesus in whom they've put their trust.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 6, 2019

Fidelibus said:
The title of your thread is....."Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?" ..... singular prayer, not prayers, as in plural.

The Sinner's Prayer I am familiar with used during an Altar Call goes as.....

"Dear Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and the wages of sin is death. You sent your Son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins. I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I ask Jesus to come into my heart. I know my sins are now all forgiven past, present and future. Thank you Jesus for saving me and assuring my entrance into heaven. Amen."

And you as a Sola Scripturists, all I am asking is..... would you acknowledge that this prayer is a man-made practice/tradition? i.e. unbiblical? I say yes..... un-biblical. And you??....Yes, or No? It's not really that difficult of a question.

Thank You

You also need to use basic logic to figure things out in life and in the Bible. If you see blood in a room, and a body part, there is a chance that a murder has happened by high probability of the evidence presented to you. The same is true with the Bible. There are so many red flags or clues to the existence of the Sinner's Prayer in the Bible (Jeremiah 8:6) (Matthew 3:6 cf. Matthew 3:8, Mark 1:4-5) (Matthew 12:41 cf. Jonah 3:6-10) (Luke 10:13 cf. Jonah 3:6, Jonah 3:8) (Acts of the Apostles 2:38) (Acts of the Apostles 8:22) (Romans 10:13) it would make one think they were in a Russian airport. In fact, we can even see an example of the Sinner's Prayer in Luke 18:9-14; However, because the Bible's description of the Sinner's Prayer does not fit the Modern Day version of saying the exact words of the Sinner's Prayer used today, you throw the baby out with the bath water. You throw out all logic and deductive reasoning because it is not exact word format that men use today.

Romans 10:13 says, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

So in your mind, how do your powers of deductive reasoning apply to this verse? Would this not be prayer? What other option would there by in ancient times? How would you apply this verse today? Do you think that you have to call God via your phone, or send a message via email to God or by the postal system?

We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10. For the Parable of the Prodigal son was the third parable in a series of parables with them all dealing with the the theme of repentance.

timothyu · Feb 6, 2019

Jason0047 said:
honestly seeking forgiveness with Jesus (God).

Forgiveness of what?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 6, 2019

timothyu said:
Forgiveness of what?

This really shouldn't be difficult to figure out. When the Bible talks about forgiveness, what do you think it generally is in reference to?

If you are still clueless, then check out my post #2.

Just_a_Christian · Feb 6, 2019

kkamagwi said:
Jesus' God and Savior of all missionaries, and his command of means and riches is such as to make him able to dispense his grace's riches to each and every one, and to all together, that call upon him in faith, who worship him as their God. To worship God's identical with worshiping Jesus. Missionaries worship Jesus as God. Their worshiping's their faith's fruit. And by that faith, they take hold upon salvation, they're saved by Jesus in whom they've put their trust.

I do not know you, however I am sure you are fine person and desire to know God and to be known by Him. The following scripture should make every living soul on Earth to have some serious humility!!!!!
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. - Matthew 7:21-23
Please, listen to God's word. These people had FAITH and they did MANY WONDERFUL WORKS and yet they were not in communion with our Lord, "He says depart from me, ye workers of iniquity!". Apparently if these people had died at that moment they would not have gone to heaven, but unto everlasting punishment. What was the problem?? The verses following are the parable of the wise man that builds his house on a solid foundation. This wise man is compared to the person who hears the Lord and obeys Him. If he does what God tells him to do, he is wise and accepted. We can only know what God wants by the Bible only. Not what I say, not what Jason, Jim, Jerry or Judy says but what God says. Another scripture that says this very concept:
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
The people above were teaching man's wisdom as doctrine and not obeying God. Not only must we have faith but we also must obey God, just as Abraham obeyed God, no matter what he was told to do. Just as two objects of mass can not occupy the same space at the same time --- we can not both be right. We can both be wrong, but we both can not be right. The Bible teaches the person who truly has faith, believes Jesus is the son of God, obeys God(not man)and loves his neighbor as himself will go to heaven.
In Him

A Biblical Case For Repentance

Is The Sinner’s Prayer Biblical?

Yes.

No.

I don’t know.

It is not mentioned in the Bible, but it is still valid.

Other (Please explain).

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