The Gospel

Tree of Life · Jan 8, 2019

redleghunter said:
No he has departed historic Protestant theology embracing the New Perspective on Paul.

Indeed. But even though NT Wright is unorthodox regarding justification, he would never deny that Christ will return bodily and he would affirm that the Kingdom of God is both already here and not yet here in its fullness.

devin553344 · Jan 8, 2019

Residential Bob said:
Tradition tells us that the Gospel is a message of personal redemption, or better that the Gospel is Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection (1 Cor 15:3-4). But what does that mean, exactly? I think before we quote St. Paul in defining the Gospel, we might first determine what the Gospel really is.

The Gospel is the kingdom (Mt 4:23, 24:14; Lk 16:16; Acts 8:12). That is explicitly what the Bible calls it. The Gospel is also peace (Acts 10:36; Eph 6:15) and our salvation (Eph 1:13). The Gospel of Jesus Christ (Mk 1:1) is the Gospel of his glory (2 Cor 4:4). The glory of Christ is the kingdom of heaven, and the kingdom of heaven is the message of Christ's ministry. Not that when we die we escape the earth but rather that the kingdom is on the earth.

The Gospel is all these things, but first, it’s the kingdom.

Why the kingdom? Because through the kingdom, all these other things are manifest. The kingdom is the very reason for the New Testament. It was Christ’s very ministry.

Christ's parables are about the Kingdom. Let’s look at the Gospel according to Matthew and see that the subject of every parable is the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom may be compared to a man who sowed good seed (13:24) or to a mustard seed (13:31) or to leaven (13:33) or to a hidden treasure (13:44) or to a merchant in the market for pearls (13:45) or to a fishing net (13:47). The kingdom is like a king who wishes to settle his accounts (18:23) or a landowner in search of labor (20:1). It is like ten virgins (25:1) or a man on a journey (25:14). You get the idea. The kingdom is the single, common thread in the parables. When Jesus tells parables, in fact, he shares secrets of the kingdom (Mt 13:11; Lk 8:10).

So the parables are about the kingdom. That doesn’t mean his entire ministry was about the kingdom, does it?

On the contrary, the kingdom was, indeed, his ministry.

Note what Jesus commissions his apostles to do when he sends them into Israel to preach the Gospel (Mt 10). He instructs them to preach the kingdom (Mt 10:7).

And note what Jesus does after he is baptized and tempted, when he begins his ministry (Mt 4:17; Mk 1:14). He begins his ministry preaching the kingdom.

Jesus begins his ministry preaching the kingdom. He instructs his own to preach the kingdom. His parables are about the kingdom.

Even after his resurrection, he preaches the kingdom. “He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.” (Acts 1:3)

The Gospel is the kingdom, and the kingdom is integral to New Testament theology, and even hinted at in the Old Testament. And what effected the kingdom? Sure, we can say that Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection did that. Sadly, though, that’s all we ever call the Gospel. Ask a random believer what the Gospel is. Will he call it the kingdom? Highly unlikely.

But that’s exactly what it is. So, shouldn’t we know what the kingdom is? I say we don’t really know what it is, mostly because we don’t really think about it. But we should. We preach to each other all the time, yet seldom ever the kingdom.

That is a shame.

So, what is the Gospel? That is, what is the kingdom?

I like your post, as it puts a good feeling for the listeners of hope and happiness. I think that within that gospel there was a large focus on the resurrection and redemption of man. Which I could quote scriptures about that: Luke 22:19, Matthew 26:28, Romans 6:23. What came to mind for some reason is the evil spirits for some reason trying to dismiss the resurrection: 1 John 4:2

redleghunter · Jan 8, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Indeed. But even though NT Wright is unorthodox regarding justification, he would never deny that Christ will return bodily and he would affirm that the Kingdom of God is both already here and not yet here in its fullness.

He has been a champion apologist for the historic bodily resurrection of Christ.

redleghunter · Jan 8, 2019

devin553344 said:
I like your post, as it puts a good feeling for the listeners of hope and happiness. I think that within that gospel there was a large focus on the resurrection and redemption of man. Which I could quote scriptures about that: Luke 22:19, Matthew 26:28, Romans 6:23. What came to mind for some reason is the evil spirits for some reason trying to dismiss the resurrection: 1 John 4:2

I think where some of the confusion comes is that some see the Gospel of Grace in opposition to the Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom Jesus and also Paul taught.

The Kingdom is the 'brass ring." We all want to be with the King in His Kingdom forever. Jesus in Matthew chapter 5 set that we are to be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Tall order but that is the 'price' of admission. By the covenant of obedience given to Adam and Eve mankind failed and disobeyed. We have lived with that condemnation since also adding sin to our account due to being sinners. There is no humanly way to achieve the perfection that is required to enter the Kingdom. That is why Christ became our Perfection and Savior. His sacrifice removed our sins and His perfectly obedient life unto death became the Righteousness we all need to enter the Kingdom of God.

devin553344 · Jan 8, 2019

redleghunter said:
I think where some of the confusion comes is that some see the Gospel of Grace in opposition to the Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom Jesus and also Paul taught.

The Kingdom is the 'brass ring." We all want to be with the King in His Kingdom forever. Jesus in Matthew chapter 5 set that we are to be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Tall order but that is the 'price' of admission. By the covenant of obedience given to Adam and Eve mankind failed and disobeyed. We have lived with that condemnation since also adding sin to our account due to being sinners. There is no humanly way to achieve the perfection that is required to enter the Kingdom. That is why Christ became our Perfection and Savior. His sacrifice removed our sins and His perfectly obedient life unto death became the Righteousness we all need to enter the Kingdom of God.

Sure: John 14:6, I should probably add that God has the ability thru the Holy Spirit to provide the ability to be obedient for sinners that desire obedience. Which is something that I have experienced.

There's an interesting article on it here: How Does The Holy Spirit Empower Obedience?

It explains how the fruits of the Holy Spirit can allow us to be obedient: Galatians 5:22-23

redleghunter · Jan 8, 2019

devin553344 said:
It explains how the fruits of the Holy Spirit can allow us to be obedient: Galatians 5:22-23

Absolutely. As Paul says in Ephesians "And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18)

mkgal1 · Jan 8, 2019

redleghunter said:
No he has departed historic Protestant theology embracing the New Perspective on Paul.

I wasn't making reference to Protestant theology when I mentioned "Orthodox" theology. I mean "Orthodox" with a capital "O" as in the church prior to the schism (but maintained in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches today).

mkgal1 · Jan 8, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Did you miss post #31 where the OP explicitly denies that Jesus will return in bodily form?

I believe there are two different topics being discussed and conflated. It was others who brought in the topic of bodily resurrection. In my opinion (and in my belief) the topic of an inherited Kingdom of God (on earth) is a different topic (and should be discussed separately for the sake of clarity).

Maria Billingsley · Jan 8, 2019

Residential Bob said:
So, what is the Gospel? That is, what is the kingdom?

Simply put, the Kingdom of God is where Jesus Christ of Nazareth is KING and the Body of Christ are in that Kingdom. The rest of the Gospel is how to be part of that Kingdom, how to share that Kingdom and how to overcome sin to stay in the Kingdom. We do not have a clear picture of what the Kingdom physically looks like after Christ comes the second time in scripture but what we do know is we will be united once again to our Creator through His son Jesus Christ of Nazareth in a new creation. In other words, our relationship will be restored in its completeness on the new heaven and earth.
Blessings

redleghunter · Jan 8, 2019

mkgal1 said:
I wasn't making reference to Protestant theology when I mentioned "Orthodox" theology. I mean "Orthodox" with a capital "O" as in the church prior to the schism (but maintained in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches today).

Oh thanks did not know the Anglicans were advancing to the East.

mkgal1 · Jan 8, 2019

redleghunter said:
Oh thanks did not know the Anglicans were advancing to the East.

"Advancing"?

redleghunter · Jan 8, 2019

mkgal1 said:
"Advancing"?

Meaning I did not know there was a movement of Anglicanism to the ancient way of the East.

hedrick · Jan 8, 2019

As far as I know, there's currently a concensus that the Kingdom is both present and future. It's really here now. Jesus' followers experience it. Indeed the final victory was one on the cross. But there are still followup skirmishes. Many people aren't in the Kingdom yet, and even those of us who are have remnants of the old.

I think the Kingdom is good news in both the present and the future. It's good news that the final victory is now assured. But it's also good news that we're already living in it, though incompletely.

Both are separate. If people have the sense that they have to put up with being Jesus' followers, something that's unpleasant in itself, just so they can get to heaven, I believe we've lost. The present Kingdom should be good news. Living the way Jesus described is a good way to live. But it's also good news that in the end the victory will be complete, and evil will be eliminated.

ladodgers6 · Jan 8, 2019

Thanks for sharing. I Love the Gospel. More in particular the distinction between Law & Gospel in relation to Justification by Faith Alone!

In Reformed Theology, "Kingdom is Christ". Luke 17:20Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

And when preaching the Gospel, the Law needs to be preached first. Why? Because they need to know why they need the Gospel. The Law (Mosaic Law)when preached correctly, brings knowledge of sin. The Law exposes sin, and brings condemnation & death. Law preaching strips sinners of any self-righteousness, pride, boasting, judging others, contempt toward others, and so forth. The Law (Mosaic) will drive sinners to is the only place for safety from the Law; namely Christ Jesus! The Law bends the knees of sinners to seek only Grace & Mercy from a Holy Righteous God! And that place is at the feet of our crucified Savior and Redeemer!

Because once the sinner who is aware of his/her plight before a Holy Judge. Hears the Sweet Glorious good news of the Gospel. Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

Notice here, that God does not justify the Godly, Holy, Obedient, or Righteous individual. But the 'UNGODLY' who believes and trusts that God Justifies the 'ungodly' who believe APART from WORKS of the LAW (Mosaic). And the marvelous good news for the 'UNGODLY' is that this is a 'FREE GIFT' because of God who shows Grace & Mercy! Hallelujah, praise and glory be to God Alone!

I know people will disagree with me on this. Because they will insist that sinners will have to produce works before they are justified to merit Salvation. This is contrary to what Paul is preaching & teaching. Because if it's based on works of the sinner or believer; Romans 4:18 For if the inheritance comes by the law (Works of any type), it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

What promise? The Promised Seed (Christ) who God sent. 3For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us,

How did Christ condemned sin in the flesh? Since everyone is under the curse of the Law (Mosaic) because of the One Act of Disobedience of the first Adam; because of the imputation of Adam's to all mankind; bought condemnation & death upon us all! Christ was sent by God; born of a woman in the flesh; born under the very Law (Mosaic) that condemn us all. Christ fulfilled the Law (Mosaic) with perfect flawless obedience to remove the curse which binds us to condemnation & death, because of sin. And Christ through his perfect righteousness to the Mosaic Law, sacrifices himself to condemn sin in his flesh to propitiate the righteous wrath of God upon his own; by imputing our sins onto his body, who knew no sin. And God imputes to us this 'FREE GIFT' of righteousness that is perfectly flawless, as if it is our own righteousness! And it is by this righteousness that the 'UNGODLY' are counted justified by God! Hallelujah!!!

And because we are now in Union with Christ by Holy Spirit. 1There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1)

Hope this helps???

Through Faith Alone apart from works; because of Christ Alone!

Amen!

mkgal1 · Jan 8, 2019

redleghunter said:
Meaning I did not know there was a movement of Anglicanism to the ancient way of the East.

"The ancient way of the East" is our (the church) origin, not a modern movement.

redleghunter · Jan 8, 2019

mkgal1 said:
"The ancient way of the East" is our (the church) origin, not a modern movement.

Didn’t say it was a modern movement although NT Wright is embracing post modern theology.

I see you are Anglican but stating you are presenting Eastern Orthodox theology

LightLoveHope · Jan 9, 2019

Residential Bob said:
If the kingdom is God's rule, and God has always ruled, then what did Jesus bring to the table? Christ renewed his church when he came? He hadn't built it yet (Mt 16:18). To say that the kingdom is here, then not really here, then it's that, then the other thing and so on and on is to not really know what it is.

I don't think traditional Christianity really teaches the Gospel.

Gods people have always been here and have lived Gods Kingdom through their lives.

Paul said we as believers and followers of Jesus, purified and made Holy, are Gods Holy temple in which dwells the Holy Spirit.

With God reigning in our lives, the Kingdom has arrived.

So whatever your intent, it is a judgement on the walk and revelation of the people of God.
And this is the problem of any position, which believes what God has done through His people is wrong and something new is now here.

So many heresies start this way, you may as well just say, from this root comes error.

On the other hand if you can find Gods will working through His people down the ages, and know the Holy Spirit and His power, you will find the Kingdom.

LightLoveHope · Jan 9, 2019

Latter reign theology holds super believers will arise, and rule the world with Christ for a thousand years.

They have a dominion theology, believing the "apostles" will become the ruling elite in all aspects of life. The delusion they are under, is they do not have a goal of righteous walking, of aiming at perfection, but staying sinners, lost in sin yet claiming Jesus covers it all, and they will be the failed examples of how the world should live, while claiming they have the right to rule.

So badly have such groups formed communities following their formula, they have abandoned their approach. Some called this close shepherding, where a leader took over full responsibility for the lives of those submitted to them. It is a kind of monasticism, except done in the world.

Others claim them have the ability to create through words things into being, exnihilo. They then claim their verbal statements have creative authority, and you can bring blessing into being or condemnation by expressing your expectations or pessimism. This is simply not a christian belief or reflected in scripture. It is also insane, but people who deal in money and selling ideas, especially give me money and God will bless you, can propogate this heresy, because its success continues, only because people literally do give it money, keep it going.

And this fruit is enough for Gods people to know where this stuff is coming from and it is not the throne of God.

Residential Bob · Jan 9, 2019

ladodgers6 said:
Since everyone is under the curse of the Law (Mosaic) because of the One Act of Disobedience of the first Adam;

Not so.

Only Israelites were subject to the law. And not since the Cross.

Residential Bob · Jan 9, 2019

Okay, now here's a question that may throw some for a loop.

Why would Jesus have died for the church?

The Gospel

Hide The Pain

I believe in the Resurrection

Thank You Jesus!

Thank You Jesus!

I believe in the Resurrection

Thank You Jesus!

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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Thank You Jesus!

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Thank You Jesus!

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Know what you believe and why you believe it

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Thank You Jesus!

Jesus leads us to life

Jesus leads us to life

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