Comic Book Religion: Which is your favorite?

Jane_the_Bane · Jul 6, 2017

MehGuy said:
I also heard they are making a film about William Moulton Marston (creator of Wonder Woman). I'd probably be more excited to see that, lol.

I'd love to see that, and hope that it'll be released in Germany! (It's a small production, I think.)

I liked the Wonder Woman-movie well enough: it certainly ended WB's streak of mediocre (and less-than-mediocre) DC film adaptations, and was a breath of fresh air.
Even if by no means a perfect film (if there is such a thing), it was a game changer by finally granting deserved commercial and critical success to a female superhero film, dispelling the myth that the protagonist's gender (instead of abominable scripts and direction) was responsible for flops of the past.

There's a few nitpicks here, though: (**** SPOILERS, obviously ********)

For one, its plot strays WAYYYYYYY too close to "Captain America". Don't believe me? Tell me which film I sum up here:

The protagonist is an idealist whose virtues mark them as extraordinary. They want to join the World War to defend the Good Cause, but are at first kept from doing so by their own nation. Fighting against the Germans, they are joined by a multi-national ragtag band, and find that the true enemy operates independently from the German government. In the end, there is a plane loaded with deadly weapons, and one of the protagonists sacrifices his own life by deliberately crashing it, to the horror of their love interest who receives some loving parting words. Also, the main villain is more closely akin to the protagonist than the hero/ine knows, drawing their powers from the same origin. Also, the villain killed their father (figure).

Secondly, for a film that wants to make a point about war making monsters of us all, it was damn black-and-white in its portrayal of evil Germans vs. good Brits. How much more effective would the film have been if Diana found that the English were using Doctor Poison's notebook to create poison gas of their own, unleashing it upon the war zone (which would be closer to what actually happened in WW1, too)? The way it was filmed, the whole point about evil lurking within man was weakened considerably, as it was essentially just the Germans who were portrayed as dastardly villains attacking civilians.

awitch · Jul 6, 2017

Jane_the_Bane said:
I liked the Wonder Woman-movie well enough: it certainly ended WB's streak of mediocre (and less-than-mediocre) DC film adaptations, and was a breath of fresh air.

Haven't seen Wonder Woman yet, but I'd say the Lego Batman Movie gets credit for breaking the streak of botched DC Comics movie adaptations.

Gxg (G²) · Jul 6, 2017

Jane_the_Bane said:
I'd love to see that, and hope that it'll be released in Germany! (It's a small production, I think.)

I liked the Wonder Woman-movie well enough: it certainly ended WB's streak of mediocre (and less-than-mediocre) DC film adaptations, and was a breath of fresh air.
Even if by no means a perfect film (if there is such a thing), it was a game changer by finally granting deserved commercial and critical success to a female superhero film, dispelling the myth that the protagonist's gender (instead of abominable scripts and direction) was responsible for flops of the past.

There's a few nitpicks here, though: (**** SPOILERS, obviously ********)

For one, its plot strays WAYYYYYYY too close to "Captain America". Don't believe me? Tell me which film I sum up here:

The protagonist is an idealist whose virtues mark them as extraordinary. They want to join the World War to defend the Good Cause, but are at first kept from doing so by their own nation. Fighting against the Germans, they are joined by a multi-national ragtag band, and find that the true enemy operates independently from the German government. In the end, there is a plane loaded with deadly weapons, and one of the protagonists sacrifices his own life by deliberately crashing it, to the horror of their love interest who receives some loving parting words. Also, the main villain is more closely akin to the protagonist than the hero/ine knows, drawing their powers from the same origin. Also, the villain killed their father (figure).

Secondly, for a film that wants to make a point about war making monsters of us all, it was damn black-and-white in its portrayal of evil Germans vs. good Brits. How much more effective would the film have been if Diana found that the English were using Doctor Poison's notebook to create poison gas of their own, unleashing it upon the war zone (which would be closer to what actually happened in WW1, too)? The way it was filmed, the whole point about evil lurking within man was weakened considerably, as it was essentially just the Germans who were portrayed as dastardly villains attacking civilians.

Good points. I also thought that the film seemed to be very much about Steve - at times, more so than Diana since he was in every scene. That said, it was still well done and truly amazing. I loved the way her innocence was impacted when seeing how war transformed both men AND women

Gxg (G²) · Jul 7, 2017

Zoness said:
I'm excited for the Wonder Woman film. I think my earliest interest in Wonder Woman (and Greek mythology, incidentally) began with the original animated run of Justice League in 2001-2004. And personally, I think Gal Gadot is a great pick for this feature film.

If you haven't seen the film already, I think you'd appreciate it much

And I am excited about her being in the new Justice League. Of course, I am hoping they will make good use of a credible villain so that the plot makes sense.

And on the subject of JLA, if you keep up with the comics, I am wondering if they'd ever make a film on the Legion of Superheroes (which happened in the future of the Justice League), after seeing how well Wonder Woman worked. I think direction for the film makes all the difference and truly understanding the comic material. There also needs to be serious consideration for having enemies that are truly worthy of a fight, as I hated the fact that the "Superman VS. Batman" movie lacked a strong antagonist. They simply made something and called it Doomsday without even showing him as he was in the comics - and it did poorly. When you read the comics, the enemies are dope - at least in the DC universe.

With the animated series for Superman, as an example, I thought one of his best enemies was Brainiac - and it was amazing to see how he was in the animated world. As another said, "Brainiac's programming to collect knowledge from other worlds and then destroying those worlds so that the information he has gathered be more precious, makes him a very ruthless villain." Even in the shows, Wonder Woman had problems dealing with him...

If they portrayed him as such in the films, it would go well. I don't know how Justice League will do following the heels of Wonder Woman - but seeing the enemies already, I have to wonder.

MehGuy · Jul 18, 2017

Jane_the_Bane said:
I'd love to see that, and hope that it'll be released in Germany! (It's a small production, I think.)

Yeah the trailer was just released today. I'd post it here, although it might not be totally CF appropriate.. lol.

Zoness · Jul 18, 2017

Gxg (G²) said:
If you haven't seen the film already, I think you'd appreciate it much

And I am excited about her being in the new Justice League. Of course, I am hoping they will make good use of a credible villain so that the plot makes sense.

And on the subject of JLA, if you keep up with the comics, I am wondering if they'd ever make a film on the Legion of Superheroes (which happened in the future of the Justice League), after seeing how well Wonder Woman worked. I think direction for the film makes all the difference and truly understanding the comic material. There also needs to be serious consideration for having enemies that are truly worthy of a fight, as I hated the fact that the "Superman VS. Batman" movie lacked a strong antagonist. They simply made something and called it Doomsday without even showing him as he was in the comics - and it did poorly. When you read the comics, the enemies are dope - at least in the DC universe.

With the animated series for Superman, as an example, I thought one of his best enemies was Brainiac - and it was amazing to see how he was in the animated world. As another said, "Brainiac's programming to collect knowledge from other worlds and then destroying those worlds so that the information he has gathered be more precious, makes him a very ruthless villain." Even in the shows, Wonder Woman had problems dealing with him..

I loved the film! Gal Gadot is my current celebrity crush lol.

I am excited for the new Justice League just because I loved the animated show so much. It was a work of art. Legion of Superheroes is a good idea, in my opinion. It would help them diversify a bit and get the sour taste of some of the superman stuff out of the public's mouth. At least in my opinion.

Brainiac was personally one of my top 3 DC villains. I loved him lol.

RDKirk · Jul 18, 2017

Gxg (G²) said:
By that statement, I'd assume you do not watch any films from Marvel (i.e. X-Men, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain America, etc.) or DC (i.e. Superman/Man of Steel, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc.) which are based on that. If that is the case, that's fine - but it makes a difference commenting on a topic you were not into or had experience with

I would not call that "comic book religion" any more than Aesop's Fables are animism.

RDKirk · Jul 18, 2017

Jane_the_Bane said:
Secondly, for a film that wants to make a point about war making monsters of us all, it was damn black-and-white in its portrayal of evil Germans vs. good Brits. How much more effective would the film have been if Diana found that the English were using Doctor Poison's notebook to create poison gas of their own, unleashing it upon the war zone (which would be closer to what actually happened in WW1, too)? The way it was filmed, the whole point about evil lurking within man was weakened considerably, as it was essentially just the Germans who were portrayed as dastardly villains attacking civilians.

I disagree. All the British leaders they depicted were callous to the deaths on the battlefield. We saw a German officer executed because he was weary of war, and we saw German soldiers relieved at the end of combat. The God of War was active on both sides.

Gxg (G²) · Jul 19, 2017

RDKirk said:
I would not call that "comic book religion" any more than Aesop's Fables are animism.

Aesop's Fables didn't set out in direct detail to say they were not trying to discuss religion.

Radically different than what is discussed in the worlds of comics, the comic creators who made them/noted the religious struggles they wanted discussed and their respective religions. As said before, when you're dealing with Greek Mythology (via Aquaman or Wonder Woman), the Norse Mythology of Thor, or others noting how proud they are to be Pantheists and so forth, it is not hidden unless one doesn't read comics/keep up with the discussions.

Religion of Comic Book Characters (esp. Super-Heroes)

As another noted best elsewhere:

From 1978’s summer blockbuster, Superman, to 2013’s The Man of Steel and beyond, comic book heroes have consistently brought their pseudo-religious characters to the cinema. Religion experts and observers of pop culture say these superheroes reflect — some more overtly than others — traditional religious archetypes and values in nontraditional settings.

Gxg (G²) · Jul 19, 2017

Zoness said:
I loved the film! Gal Gadot is my current celebrity crush lol.

I am excited for the new Justice League just because I loved the animated show so much. It was a work of art. Legion of Superheroes is a good idea, in my opinion. It would help them diversify a bit and get the sour taste of some of the superman stuff out of the public's mouth. At least in my opinion.

Gal Gadot handled her business in the entire film - and I loved the way she shined the whole film.

The Animated show for Justice League is a high bar for a live action film to meet (and I just realized Green Lantern is not present). With Legion of Superheroes, I can only hope sour taste is not too bad to remove if the Legion film was made, although Man of Steel was amazing (IMHO)!!!

Brainiac was personally one of my top 3 DC villains. I loved him lol.

Good to know we're on the same page with that. Brainiac was and will always be so cutthroat - although I wonder how they'd bring him to the big screen.

And having a Brainiac as a good guy would make a world of difference as well. How that would be explained is another issue...

RDKirk · Jul 20, 2017

Gxg (G²) said:
Aesop's Fables didn't set out in direct detail to say they were not trying to discuss religion.

Radically different than what is discussed in the worlds of comics, the comic creators who made them/noted the religious struggles they wanted discussed and their respective religions. As said before, when you're dealing with Greek Mythology (via Aquaman or Wonder Woman), the Norse Mythology of Thor, or others noting how proud they are to be Pantheists and so forth, it is not hidden unless one doesn't read comics/keep up with the discussions.

Religion of Comic Book Characters (esp. Super-Heroes)

As another noted best elsewhere:

From 1978’s summer blockbuster, Superman, to 2013’s The Man of Steel and beyond, comic book heroes have consistently brought their pseudo-religious characters to the cinema. Religion experts and observers of pop culture say these superheroes reflect — some more overtly than others — traditional religious archetypes and values in nontraditional settings.

I don't actually know what you intended to say.

I'm pretty sure, however, that the Jews who created Superman and Thor were not intending to create or promote pagan religions.

Gxg (G²) · Jul 20, 2017

RDKirk said:
I don't actually know what you intended to say.

I don't know what your actual point is if/when (1) Ignoring (without any real attempt at citing the authors of comics) what they said in their stances AND (2) ignoring the OP thread and several others where comic authors stated their expressed intentions. Authors made comics to express religious ideologies and their worldviews they saw. It's not a difficult concept.

Religion of Comic Book Characters (esp. Super-Heroes

I'm pretty sure, however, that the Jews who created Superman and Thor were not intending to create or promote pagan religions.

That is Not according to the Jews who noted it and wrote their thoughts. And again, saying "I'm pretty sure" isn't the same as actually quoting the comics or the comic authors in their thoughts.

And again, you jumped into the thread without dealing with what they said so it's illogical speaking of what you may feel the Jews felt. They already shared their thoughts. The author of Wonder Woman was direct when it came to noting the desire to bring back Greek Mythology.

The Surprising Origin Story of Wonder Woman | Arts & Culture ...

Wonder Woman was made to be an Amazon because of feminist ideals at the time. Marston was a feminist, and he wanted his hero to be an equal to the male heroes of the day. According to the New Yorker's Jill Lepore, early twentieth century feminism was fascinated by the idea of an ancient matriarchal society, and Marston was very much a part of that scene. And since there's no better known example of an ancient matriarchal society than the Amazons, they seemed like a natural fit for Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman grew up on Themyscira, the home island of the Amazons. Her creation at various times has involved Aphrodite and Zeus, both actual Greek Gods, and one of her greatest nemeses is Ares, the classical Greek God of War. Wonder Woman's mother is Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons, who also filled that same role in Greek mythology. But one big difference between Greek mythology and DC Comics is that the Hippolyta of Greek myth never had a daughter. In the comics, her daughter is of course Diana, AKA Wonder Woman, whom she molds from clay. And while Diana is the name of the Roman Goddess of the Hunt — whose Greek equivalent is Artemis — Wonder Woman is not actually an interpretation of that character.

As an American comic, the majority of Wonder Woman readers have grown up in an occidental religious context. In this kind of faith, god and everything divine are inherently good. Sometimes, these readers don’t understand why the Greek gods do what they do, from randomly giving superpowers to humans to psychotically killing people. As seen in previous runs, Diana has had to deal with mischievous gods and sometimes fight with them herself. But she comes back to her temple at Themyscira and worships them. Why? Well, first things first.

Most of the characters in this comic are deities, and the first thing you have to understand about Greek gods is that they are not super powerful people, but concepts with consciousness. So, for example, Ares, the god of war, is the concept of war itself. Throughout the story, the gods are referred to as the name of the things they represent, as in Ares is called “War,” Hades is called “Hell,” and Poseidon is called “Sea,” for those are their true nature.

The starting point of this story is that Zeus is missing. He simply does not exist anymore. Zeus is the personification of power–an old white man power, if you ask me. Power can be good: he is the governor of Olympus and puts everything and everyone in its rightful place, enabling the wheels of the world to spin in a somewhat orderly fashion. But so much power can be maddening too. Zeus has done some pretty messed up things, like trying to kill his son because he didn’t want competitors to the throne. Just like we witness in real life, his authority grows as the subject’s perceived worthiness in society falls–but his authority was already pretty huge to begin with. The King of Heaven oppressed mortal women in the most unfair power play, often ending with rape. So taking this power figure out of the scene is very interesting. How will the world adapt to this new situation? It is Game of Thrones, Olympus edition.

Which takes us to Hera, wife of Zeus and theoretically next in the succession line. She is the goddess of matrimony–a good one to pray to if you wish for a gentle husband or strong children. Hera’s symbols are the peacock and her crown. But she does not take extra-marital affairs lightly. She hunts Zeus’ bastards and cruelly eliminates them, as well as their mothers. So she starts this arc as the master villain, but that’s Greek mythology. Nothing is as simple as that.

So Hera wants to murder this mortal Zola, who is pregnant with Zeus’ child. Happily, there are good guys around the town to save the day: Wonder Woman and Hermes. The messenger god is as fast as wind and a master of stealth. He is also the god of thieves, trade, travelers, wit, and athletes, and guide to the Underworld. He is often symbolized by winged sandals, but in this comic he has actually winged bird-like feet and a feathery body. His main symbol is the herald’s staff–the kerykeion in Greek–that consists of two snakes wrapped around each other. The kerykeion is faithfully represented in Chiang’s version, and plays an important role in the plot because it allows its holder to travel between realms. But what are Hermes’ motivations? Why is he helping out Diana? I’m not even going to say he is an ambiguous character because all of them are. He is a Greek god. That is their essence.

At this point, Diana finds out that she is Zeus’ illegitimate daughter, a demigoddess. She also finds out she is far from being the only one. The king of Olympus had a liking for mortal woman, and seducing them wasn’t very hard since he is a shape-shifter. Of course, Hera does her best to exterminate them all, but being demigods, some have powers that protect them and others were saved by Zeus. Their shared hate and fear of Hera bonds them together. Wonder Woman gets to know Lennox, a mysterious and helpful man made of stone; Siracca, a sad and angry wind elemental; and Milan, a dirty hobo with the ability to see everything. There is also Zola’s baby, whose power is still to be fully explained, and Cassandra, who has the ability to manipulate the will of others with her voice. None of them were drawn from Greek mythology, but there are a lot of Zeus’ bastards in the old tales from whom Azzarello and Chiang could have taken inspiration. For example, Hercules is a famous one who was born with the gift of superhuman strength because of his parentage with Zeus. Minotaur is the product of Zeus raping Europa while in the form of a bull (gross!), producing a half human half bull creature. The mother of Alexander the Great claimed that Zeus himself had fathered her son, explaining all his heroic deeds and greatness, although, not surprisingly, many people were skeptical about this.

The same with Superman. The original 1930s Superman comic strip, created by Jerry Siegel and Joel Shuster in the 1930s, creating Superman to represent the struggle of Jewish people. Siegel and Shuster drew from biblical heroes, such as Samson, who was the strongest man in the Bible, and Moses, who helped free God's people from slavery.

Additionally, Superman's origin came out of the loss of Jerry’s father, who was fatally shot by a robber, at a time when America was battling with the Great Depression and the world was just about to begin its fight with Hitler. If you have any thoughts showing otherwise from the authors, do so. Superman's writers also saw to it where an already laid out a religion of his own ancestors known as
Raoism |

The religion of Superman (Clark Kent / Kal-El) - Adherents.com

As said earlier, for example, the author of Superman noted this and it was documented in the book "Up Up and Oy Vey! How Jewish History Culture and Values Shaped The Comicbook Superhero" . The organization of AISH.com did a good review on ithere..and other believers also shared some wonderful thoughts on the subject. There were also multiple references to the religion Superman followed in the comics.

There are also Muslim comic authors who noted in detail their desire to express Muslim ideology through visual culture. And the same goes for many others.

But the religious aspects are more than present.

Deal with them if actually showing awareness of what they said.

Gxg (G²) · Jul 20, 2017

awitch said:
Haven't seen Wonder Woman yet, but I'd say the Lego Batman Movie gets credit for breaking the streak of botched DC Comics movie adaptations.

Couldn't really get into the Lego Batman movie..

MehGuy · Mar 25, 2018

Just finished watching Professor Marston And The Wonder Women.

The film was much sadder than I thought it would be. I remember for years wanting to see a film about about.. although pictured it more as a light hearted Ed Wood type of film. He's a freak.. but he's more charming naïve about it.. lol. Not sure how historically accurate the movie is. Like did people really burn Wonder Woman comics Nazi book burning style? Lol.. Still, can't imagine his lifestyle was easy to live.. especially in the 1920s to 1940s. Even today you'll still face some anger and shame. I do remember reading that one of his actual sons had some bitterness over his father and his less than secret lifestyle.

Despite any dramatizations, he did actually die only several years after making Wonder Woman and many of his visions for the comic died with him.

Still have yet to watch the official Wonder Woman film yet. Sadly modern feminists have ruined my appetite for the film for the time being. Know others with similar sentiments.. might take a few years before I can watch it. Although to be fair, the creator of Wonder Woman had pretty disgusting views on men as well. Don't really agree with his theories either, they seem to old fashioned regarding the views on men and women. Women can be just as sadistic as men, only difference is they probably have evolutionary pressure to be more reserved and more caring of their own physical well being than men. Plenty of women in the Nazi era out shown their sadism compared to their male counter parts. Big thing was these women felt relatively safe to be abusive with little backlash. If Hitler wasn't so misogynistic I have no doubt that women would have stepped up to the plate and maybe even out performed men on brutality.

RDKirk · Mar 25, 2018

MehGuy said:
Just finished watching Professor Marston And The Wonder Women.

The film was much sadder than I thought it would be. I remember for years wanting to see a film about about.. although pictured it more as a light hearted Ed Wood type of film. He's a freak.. but he's more charming naïve about it.. lol. Not sure how historically accurate the movie is. Like did people really burn Wonder Woman comics Nazi book burning style? Lol.. Still, can't imagine his lifestyle was easy to live.. especially in the 1920s to 1940s. Even today you'll still face some anger and shame. I do remember reading that one of his actual sons had some bitterness over his father and his less than secret lifestyle.

Despite any dramatizations, he did actually die only several years after making Wonder Woman and many of his visions for the comic died with him.

Still have yet to watch the official Wonder Woman film yet. Sadly modern feminists have ruined my appetite for the film for the time being. Know others with similar sentiments.. might take a few years before I can watch it. Although to be fair, the creator of Wonder Woman had pretty disgusting views on men as well. Don't really agree with his theories either, they seem to old fashioned regarding the views on men and women. Women can be just as sadistic as men, only difference is they probably have evolutionary pressure to be more reserved and more caring of their own physical well being than men. Plenty of women in the Nazi era out shown their sadism compared to their male counter parts. Big thing was these women felt relatively safe to be abusive with little backlash. If Hitler wasn't so misogynistic I have no doubt that women would have stepped up to the plate and maybe even out performed men on brutality.

Go ahead and see the film. It's not really a "feminist" film like, say, "End of the Jedi," "A Wrinkle in Time," or "Star Trek: Discovery." That is the say, the males are not intentionally reduced to cringeworthiness...at least not as a matter of gender politics...if they're cringeworthy, it's from normal stuff like poor script, poor direction, or poor acting.

The humor is organic, the dramatic moments are earned. The CGI in the final act is rather strained, but by then you're still feeling pretty good from the second act.

Jane_the_Bane · Mar 27, 2018

MehGuy said:
Don't really agree with his theories either, they seem to old fashioned regarding the views on men and women. Women can be just as sadistic as men, only difference is they probably have evolutionary pressure to be more reserved and more caring of their own physical well being than men.

Yes to the sadistic women (in fact, you'll find feminists AGREEING with you on this, since the "angel in the house" is a patriarchal stereotype), but please don't stoop to pseudo-biological explanations when it comes to human behaviour, especially in relation to gender. Gender roles may not be utterly random (and thus at least *somewhat* influenced by inherited instinct, hormone levels, etc.), but they are sufficiently culturally motivated to make all attempts at attributing them to "nature" cringeworthy.

I think it was Michael Moore who recently tried to champion women by claiming: "No women ever invented an atomic bomb, built a smoke stack, initiated a Holocaust, melted the polar ice caps or organized a school shooting.”

He's wrong on every point here. Dr Elizabeth Graves was involved with the development and testing of the first nuclear bomb - WHILE PREGNANT at that.
Mary Walton invented a key component of modern smoke stacks.
Pauline Nyimarasuhuko was convicted of organising and participating in the Rwandan genocide.
And billions of women are participating in melting the polar ice caps right now, even including a couple of CEOs of oil companies such as Vikki Hollub.

The thing is - and this is important to note, ESPECIALLY as a feminist - women aren't "better" than men. That's part of the sexist narrative that has led to discrimination throughout the ages.

MehGuy · Mar 27, 2018

Jane_the_Bane said:
Yes to the sadistic women (in fact, you'll find feminists AGREEING with you on this, since the "angel in the house" is a patriarchal stereotype),

Really isn't my experience from feminists. My experience is that many of them like to gender violence and sexual abuse and call it "toxic masculinity".

Sure you might receive some cheers from feminists if you bring up some legendary sadistic female Viking warrior, but if you want to have an actual conversation about women who commit domestic violence or sexual abuse the attitude is usually quite hostile.

but please don't stoop to pseudo-biological explanations when it comes to human behaviour, especially in relation to gender. Gender roles may not be utterly random (and thus at least *somewhat* influenced by inherited instinct, hormone levels, etc.), but they are sufficiently culturally motivated to make all attempts at attributing them to "nature" cringeworthy.

If one were to compare the differences and relationships between men and women I'd say it more closely resembles a relationship between a parent and a child. On average women are more physically neotenous than men, retain more child-like voices and I'd argue their gestures and body movements resemble more that of children. They're generally weaker. The idea that what's on the outside doesn't reflect the psychology on the inside seems far fetched.

Ironically it was my interaction with feminists that turned me around from believing gender roles were the result of social conditioning to believing they have more of a natural origin. I was confronted with a group of people who seemingly wanted to tackle gender roles and overthrow them. Something I was very much for (and still am). Unfortunately what I found was a bunch of women who basically wanted men to take care of them and forgo any emotions we men may have for our own situations.

The total overblown concepts such as manspreading, eye rape and whatnot. Creating an atmosphere where society is apparently so toxic and deeply hates women that good feminist men need to become their guardians and protect them. And like I said earlier, bring up the subject of women victimizing men and I was always in for a huge backlash and denial. To me this modern manifestation of feminism and it's hysterias is a cry for help from women who long to be cherished/protected and treated like children again.

It perplexed me why they were acting like that, and seemingly unware of their actions. Why patronizing behavior from white knight male feminists mostly went unchallenged. I wanted to know why they were behaving this way, and as I studied human biology and sexual attraction the actions of those feminists made more and more sense. A recognizable pattern of gender roles seem to pop up everywhere. Even places that are supposedly progressive.

Do social pressures influence gender expression? Sure. Even wild animals tend to act different in civilized contexts. I find it hard to believe that an average poor girl who grows up in a rough neighborhood won't act more masculine than an average pampered rich man who was born in a well-off neighborhood.

I do believe it's quite possible to raise men and women in a way where they end up more resembling each other. Will they be as psychologically healthy as a result? I'm not sure. Although as an egalitarian who wants to see equal gender representation in all fields it's a worthy possible sacrifice. A big part of achieving that in my mind though, is understanding biological differences between the sexes. Know what you're up against, have the knowledge to manipulate.

Jane_the_Bane · Mar 28, 2018

MehGuy said:
Really isn't my experience from feminists. My experience is that many of them like to gender violence and sexual abuse and call it "toxic masculinity".

"Toxic masculinity" is something else entirely.
It's the warped gender role that hurts the people subjected to it.
It's people telling a child "boys don't cry", "man up", and "don't be such a sissy" when the kid dares to express an emotion other than anger.
Idolizing violence as the best way for men to prove their strength and power.
Fostering the idea that REAL men would never seek help. "Can you picture the Marlboro Man in therapy?"
Promoting the idea that a man's identity hinges on his ability to dominate women.
Homophobia.
Perceiving women as trophies to be won.

It's traditional male norms that are, well, TOXIC. Not just to the men who grow up to be stunted and warped by such expectations, but also to women and society in general.

Petros2015 · Mar 28, 2018

My favorite is Nausicaa from Miyazaki Manga

(article about spirituality in the movie Nausicaa)
The religious theme of Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
http://www.mother-god.com/nausicaa.html
(online manga the movie was based on)
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind

(celebration of anniversary of Miyazaki with huge symphony orchestra doing the score from Nausicaa to backdrop of movie scenes - I love this)

She shows a sacrificial love and compassion - follows principles of non-harm, a love for all creatures. She is a character that if she were real, I would take a bullet for. She is a kind of Christ figure.

Gxg (G²) · Dec 21, 2018

RDKirk said:
Go ahead and see the film. It's not really a "feminist" film like, say, "End of the Jedi," "A Wrinkle in Time," or "Star Trek: Discovery." That is the say, the males are not intentionally reduced to cringeworthiness...at least not as a matter of gender politics...if they're cringeworthy, it's from normal stuff like poor script, poor direction, or poor acting.

The humor is organic, the dramatic moments are earned. The CGI in the final act is rather strained, but by then you're still feeling pretty good from the second act.

It was a great film

As an aside, the movie Aquaman came out - and it was truly beautiful

The mythology is SO deep

Comic Book Religion: Which is your favorite?

Gaia's godchild

Retired from Christian Forums

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

A member of the less neotenous sex..

667, neighbor of the beast

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

A member of the less neotenous sex..

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Gaia's godchild

A member of the less neotenous sex..

Gaia's godchild

Well-Known Member

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

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