Why Did D. M. Canright leave the Seventh-Day Adventists?

Dkh587 · Dec 19, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
The Sabbath was the sign of the Old Covenant. Do you really believe we are still under the Old Covenant?

You must not have read my post because I told you that God warned us about people that try to lead us away from following His commands..

Jesus nor the Apostles taught us to disobey God’s commands, including the Sabbath, as part of being in the New Covenant with Judah & Israel.

1stcenturylady · Dec 19, 2018

Dkh587 said:
You must not have read my post because I told you that God warned us about people that try to lead us away from following His commands..

Jesus nor the Apostles taught us to disobey God’s commands, including the Sabbath, as part of being in the New Covenant with Judah & Israel.

Actually, Jesus provided a better way to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law, than trying to follow those written on stone. Do you know what that was? And when that changed, a new sign of the New Covenant came into being, making the sign of the old covenant obsolete. Judaizers tried to convince the Galatians to follow the outward signs too as you are doing now.

Dkh587 · Dec 19, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Actually, Jesus provided a better way to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law, than trying to follow those written on stone. Do you know what that was? And when that changed, a new sign of the New Covenant came into being, making the sign of the old covenant obsolete. Judaizers tried to convince the Galatians to follow the outward signs too as you are doing now.

The Galatians were Sabbath keepers - they were already keeping the Sabbath.

The way you are using the term “Judaizers” shows your misunderstanding of what/who they actually were.

According to God, what is the New Covenant?

klutedavid · Dec 19, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Friday starts at sunset Thursday night. Do you know the concept of the "evening and the morning was the first day." or second day, etc. Check out the passages for creation week in Genesis. The Biblical day starts at sunset, not midnight.

Yes it may 1stcenturylady, but using the western time system the seventh day starts at midnight Friday.

Tell me you don't start each month at the new moon?

klutedavid · Dec 19, 2018

Dkh587 said:
The Galatians were Sabbath keepers - they were already keeping the Sabbath.

The way you are using the term “Judaizers” shows your misunderstanding of what/who they actually were.

According to God, what is the New Covenant?

The new covenant is not the old covenant, that's why it's called new!

klutedavid · Dec 19, 2018

Dkh587 said:
You must not have read my post because I told you that God warned us about people that try to lead us away from following His commands..

Jesus nor the Apostles taught us to disobey God’s commands, including the Sabbath, as part of being in the New Covenant with Judah & Israel.

They told you to obey what Jesus commanded us under new covenant, not the old covenant.

klutedavid · Dec 19, 2018

Dkh587 said:
The Sabbath is pretty important, so any book or epistle that teaches against keeping the Sabbath is automatically out the window.

In fact, God told us not to listen to people who tell us to disobey His commands. Simply based on the disregarding of the Sabbath, I know that EoB is not from God, because God commanded us to keep the Sabbath/7th day holy. The devil challenges God and brings what He said into question, and attempts to persuade us to disobey God.

Yes, abortion is evil, but there are plenty of unbelievers that know this. Deception is mixing truth with a lie. The serpent told the woman truth mixed in with a lie.

America is under judgement because it is a wicked nation with major blood on its hands, and not just from abortion.

And for what it’s worth, I’m not SDA.

What, outrageous?

You don't accept Ellen's teaching as inspired text?

You reject the Clear Word Bible as an authentic translation?

You don't belong to the one true remnant church?

liberty of conscience · Dec 19, 2018

klutedavid said:
...You reject the Clear Word Bible as an authentic translation?...

Several things:

[1] the so-called CW is a personal man's (Jack Blanco) 'paraphrase'

[2] I absolutely reject it as an "authentic translation" (as it never claims to be that) of the Heb. Masoretic & Gr. TR.

[3] I absolutely reject it even as a useful 'paraphrase' (wasted money, paper, time and ink, and expense)

[4] it is presently simply "the Clear Word" (see its front cover), being Jack Blanco's personal paraphrase, and frankly doesn't make anything clear, and has several errors even from a Seventh-day Adventist perspective.

[5] it should be put on the same category as other paraphrases (which is to say, useless)

[6] it is not the Seventh-day Adventist's official (or even unofficial) "Bible"or Paraphrase and never has been (in fact, the preserved word of God in English is the King James Bible (KJB), though other (English) translations and languages are utilized in the world-wide body as each individual sees fit)

[7] it was never endorsed by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists (world-wide body) for general use/reading/study

... but I am sure you've heard all this before, and simply pretend otherwise (btw, feel free to throw away any copy you find within your power).

1stcenturylady · Dec 19, 2018

klutedavid said:
What, outrageous?

You don't accept Ellen's teaching as inspired text?

You reject the Clear Word Bible as an authentic translation?

You don't belong to the one true remnant church?

Have you ever read the Clear Word Bible? I have it. Don't know the author, but it seems more of a very liberal and extremely biased paraphrase to me as opposed to a word for word translation. Don't remember what it claims to be, and haven't read it in years. Nothing I would ever consult, but don't believe in burning Bibles, as some of it may still be the word of God. As far as paraphrases go, The Living Bible is outstanding. It changed my life.

I have a lot of Bibles, every version I can get my hands on to compare. So far, the Clear Word Bible and the New World Translation are among the worst I've got. I started collecting Bibles and other ancient writings before I had the internet and Biblegateway.com. But I have some that aren't on there, yet.

I just received a couple more interlinear Greek-English Bibles to compare verses with. Now I have three by different translators. The one by George Ricker Berry seems the worst, as the meaning of the Greek words don't correspond with his English. Marshall is the best and literally translates word for word. Green gives a different light, but not as accurate as Marshall. But Green has prompted a question I plan to check out tonight on the word "week." Will do a word study. God's word is fascinating. But we must be conscience of obtaining the true meaning of the texts, and not add our own biases that literally can change the Author's meaning. If you are going to follow Christ and not some denomination, you better know what He is saying.

1stcenturylady · Dec 19, 2018

Dkh587 said:
The Galatians were Sabbath keepers - they were already keeping the Sabbath.

The way you are using the term “Judaizers” shows your misunderstanding of what/who they actually were.

According to God, what is the New Covenant?

Show me where the Galatians were Sabbath keepers please.

1stcenturylady · Dec 19, 2018

klutedavid said:
Yes it may 1stcenturylady, but using the western time system the seventh day starts at midnight Friday.

Tell me you don't start each month at the new moon?

We're not talking "western" time, but "God" time. After all, He's the one that created time. LOL

The Jews are the one's who know God's time. So the seventh day starts at sundown Friday night. There were no westerners back then in the beginning.

Knowing this is important for figuring out the timing of events in the Bible that used God's creation time, not modern western time.

liberty of conscience · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Show me where the Galatians were Sabbath keepers please.

Quite easy to do.

Paul always taught on sabbath (as Jesus did while keeping the sabbath of the LORd Holy), in the synagogues (where available) to the Jews first and also to the Greek (god-fearing) proselytes:

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Act 18:11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

He did this in every city and area, including Galatia:

Act 18:23 And after he had spent some time there, he departed, and went over all the country of Galatia and Phrygia in order, strengthening all the disciples.

Paul even wrote a letter to Corinth, after the example set in Galatia:

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

Which was to have a personal offering set aside after the sabbath, the seventh day was over, on the first [day] of the week, for the poor in Jerusalem:

1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

1Co 16:2 κατα μιαν σαββατων εκαστος υμων παρ εαυτω τιθετω θησαυριζων ο τι αν ευοδωται ινα μη οταν ελθω τοτε λογιαι γινωνται

Notice that Paul asked them to wait until after Sabbath was over.

The Gentile Galatians were then being affected by the Pharisaical jewish Christians on the matter of outward/phsyical circumcision (like as discussed in Acts 15). The only reason that would be a thing, is because these Gentile believers were already keeping sabbath with the Jewish believers, just as Acts 15 says:

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

We see examples all throughout Acts of the Jews and Gentiles meeting in synagogue (or nature, or Temple, or house to house, etc) on the 7th day the Sabbath of God.

Act 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

(citing right out of the Sababth commandment, for Gentiles, Exodus 20:11)

Act 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Consider also that the unity of the brethren to gather together and not forsake this could not be unified if churches across Asia were not obeying God in His commandment.

Paul said in Galatians:

Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal_6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Which is perfectly parallel to what he said in Corinth:

1Co_7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Each is parallel and equative.

[1] physical circumcision is nothing (jews)
[2] physical uncircumcision is nothing (gentiles)

but what is the crux and important is:

[3] faith which worketh by love, which can only be done by the new creature, and that new creature no longer desires to transgress God's commandments, and thus walks in the spirit and keeps the commandment of God.

The problem with Galatia is that they were getting sucked into justification by works of the law, which is an impossibility.

There is no censure for their sabbath-keeping, and there is no hint of anything resembling a censure that they ought not to keep the sabbath. This wasn't their issue.

Their issues was with the pharisaical believers, who were trying to get the gentiles to keep all of the typological feasts, by physically circumcised for outward show, which pointed to Christ Jesus and was merely a symbol of what was to be cut off in the heart, "flesh", "carnal mind".

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Okay. That takes care of the first Greek word for Sabbath. What about the second one?

I just did a word study on the word, "week" and found that in Greek the word for week is sabbath. Like Acts 16:1 when collecting money for the saints, talking about the first of the week, it says one of the sabbaths. That is the same as Matthew 28:1 referring to Sunday as the first day of the week/one of the sabbaths. So it doesn't necessarily mean that that Sunday was called a Sabbath just because it was Feast of Firstfruits. Any Sunday is "one of the sabbaths."

Colossians 2:16 sets out feasts, new moons and sabbaths, which means yearly, monthly, weekly. Some SDA's argue that the last one for Sabbaths refer to high sabbath feasts or other sabbaths such as 7th year rest of land, when it is actually the weekly Sabbath.

liberty of conscience · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
I did a word study on the word, "week" and found that in Greek the word for week is sabbath. Like Acts 16:1 when talking about the first of the week, it says one of the sabbaths.

Colossians 2:16 sets out feasts, new moons and sabbaths, which means yearly, monthly, weekly. Some SDA's argue that the last one for Sabbaths refer to high sabbath feasts, when it is actually the weekly Sabbath.

Please study that passage more closely:

There are even commentaries that get this:

Interestingly enough Albert Barnes, a noted Bible Commentator, states on Colossians 2:16, on the word “sabbatwn”:

“... Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation. ...” - Albert Barnes, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

Furthermore, another noted Commentator, Adam Clarke, states on the same passage:

“... There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. ...” - Adam Clarke, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

Even the Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary state:

“... the sabbath — Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Gal_4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Lev_23:32, Lev_23:37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Lev_23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb_4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isa_66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Rom_13:8-10). ...” - Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

liberty of conscience · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
I did a word study on the word, "week" and found that in Greek the word for week is sabbath. Like Acts 16:1 when talking about the first of the week, it says one of the sabbaths.

Colossians 2:16 sets out feasts, new moons and sabbaths, which means yearly, monthly, weekly. Some SDA's argue that the last one for Sabbaths refer to high sabbath feasts, when it is actually the weekly Sabbath.

Also:

"Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts.

The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB].

Colossians 2:14 - "ordinances"
Ephesians 2:15 - "law of commandments contained in ordinances"
Hebrews 9:1 - "ordinances of divine service"
Hebrews 9:10 - "carnal ordinances"

Colossians 2:16 - "in meat, or in drink" [offerings]
Hebrews 9:10 - "meats and drinks" [offerings]

Colossians 2:12 - "also ye are risen with him"
Ephesians 2:6 - "raised us up together"

Colossians 2:16 - "a shadow of things to come"
Ephesians 2:7 - "in the ages to come"
Hebrews 9:11 - "of good things to come"
Hebrews 10:1 - "the law having a shadow of good things to come", "those sacrifices", "offered year by year"

[ps. none of the Ten Commandments deal with carnal sacrifices]

It speaks of plural, "sabbath days" (or 'of sabbaths'). The context, is also not concerned with all 'sabbaths' but is limited in scope, to that which is "shadow" (not light, not body or substance), that which is "of things to come" (type pointing to the future events) and of "ordinances", as follows.

[1] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, of Creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), was given to mankind (Adam) before the sin of mankind (Mark 2:27), before the need of shadow and type, which were given after the sin of mankind, under the Levitical priesthood.

[2] The Sabbath of the LORD the God, is a memorial (pointing backwards, thu the words "Remember" (Exodus 20:8)), to a perfect world without sin, perfect relationship, perfect rest), and is not pointing to the future.

[3] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is singular and specific. "The seventh day" "the sabbath" "of the LORD thy God".

Exodus 20:8 KJB - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:9 KJB - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exodus 20:10 KJB - But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exodus 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus 20:8 HOT - זכור את־יום השׁבת לקדשׁו׃
Exodus 20:9 HOT - שׁשׁת ימים תעבד ועשׂית כל־מלאכתך׃
Exodus 20:10 HOT - ויום השׁביעי שׁבת ליהוה אלהיך לא־תעשׂה כל־מלאכה אתה ובנך־ובתך עבדך ואמתך ובהמתך וגרך אשׁר בשׁעריך׃
Exodus 20:11 HOT - כי שׁשׁת־ימים עשׂה יהוה את־השׁמים ואת־הארץ את־הים ואת־כל־אשׁר־בם וינח ביום השׁביעי על־כן ברך יהוה את־יום השׁבת ויקדשׁהו׃

Exodus 20:8 HOT Translit. - zäkhôr et-yôm haSHaBät l'qaD'shô
Exodus 20:9 HOT Translit. - shëshet yämiym Taávod w'äsiytä Käl-m'lakh'Tekhä
Exodus20:10 HOT Translit. -w'yôm haSH'viyiy shaBät layhwäh éloheykhä lo-taáseh khäl-m'läkhäh aTäh ûvin'khä-ûviTekhä av'D'khä waámät'khä ûv'hem'Tekhä w'gër'khä ásher Bish'äreykhä
Exodus 20:11 HOT Translit. - Kiy shëshet-yämiym äsäh y'hwäh et-haSHämayim w'et-hääretz et-haYäm w'et-Käl-ásher-Bäm waYänach BaYôm haSH'viyiy al-Kën Bërakh' y'hwäh et-yôm haSHaBät way'qaD'shëhû š

[4] The Sabbath of the LORD is separate from the yearly festal sabbaths, as denoted in Leviticus 23 (see Leviticus 23:3; then see Leviticus 23:4,38 "beside the sabbaths of the LORD")

[5] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is called "the sabbath of the LORD" (Exodus 20:8-11, etc), and "My sabbaths" (Isaiah 56:4; Ezekiel 20:20), as opposed to theirs, called "your sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,35), and "her sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,43; 2 Chronicles 26:31; Lamentations 1:7; Hosea 2:11), etc.

[6] Colossians 2, in its entire context says nothing about "the seventh day", but speaks of merely the shadow sabbaths (plural, not singular), and says nothing of "commandment" (as Luke 23:54,56 does), but speaks of wordly "ordinances" (Colossians 2:14,20).

[7] Colossians 2, speaks of "sins" (Colossians 2:13), which is "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4), of which the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is central, whereas the yearly (and of years) sabbaths are not given in the Ten Commandments at all.

More can be said, but 7 was a good number to round it off at this point, there is more detail as necessary ..." - cited with edits, as there was an entire well presented study already posted online awhile ago (and I will simply refer to it)- SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

Colossians 2:16:

[1] daily (meat and drink (offerings))
[2] seasonally (feast days, in their seasons, spring, fall)
[3] monthly (new moons)
[4] of year (sabbath days, yearly see Leviticus 23 & 25)

Numbers 28 & 29; 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Nehemiah 10:33; Isaiah 1:13-14; Ezekiel 45:17, 46:1-11; Hosea 2:11, and see also Galatians 4:10; Colossians 2:16

Numbers 28:1-8 KJB, is the "continual" or "day by day" offerings, aka 'the daily'.

Numbers 28:9-10 KJB, is the "every sabbath" on "the sabbath day", which is the weekly 7th day Sabbath offerings.

Numbers 28:11-15 KJB, is the "beginnings of your months", and "every month", or monthly offerings.

Numbers 28:16-25 KJB is the "in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD" and "in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread", which is the seasonal feast of Passover and of unleavened bread of the spring, and would be the spring seasonal offering, or even the first feast of the religious year offering.

Numbers 28:26-31 KJB is the "in the day of the firstfruits" and "after your weeks", or the seaonal wavesheaf offering along with Pentecost [feast of weeks], which basically closes the seasonal spring feasts.

Numbers 29:1-6 KJB continues them of the seasonal feasts "in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets", which is the seasonal fall feast of Trumpets and its offerings.

Numbers 29:7-11 KJB is the "have on the tenth day of this seventh month an holy convocation; and ye shall afflict your souls: ye shall not do any work therein", "of atonement", or the seasonal fall feast of the day of atonement offering.

Numbers 29:12-40 KJB is the "on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days", which is the final seasonal fall feast of booths/ingathering/tabernacles offerings. Which completes the full offerings in the year.
Galatians 4:10 -
You are in great error here, seeing as you reversed the textual order to being with:

Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

1 Chronicles 23:31 -

Please notice:

1Ch 23:30 And to stand every morning to thank and praise the LORD, and likewise at even;
1Ch 23:31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:

Vs 30 begins with the "daily", even the "morning" and "even[ing]".
vs 31 continues with weekly sabbaths, monthly new moons, seasonal feasts (spring/fall), which would also include the yearly sabbaths following.

Therefore, it is again, in increasing, nor decreasing order.

[1] days, [2] weeks, [3] months [4] seasons [5] yearly.

In Colossians 2, the weekly are not included, as they are not "ordinances", but rather God's Law.

Why are you reversing the order from what is clearly given?

2 Chronicles 2:4 -

Notice again:

2Ch 2:4 Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

Notice the "continual", which is the "daily" as seen by the "morning and evening" again. Then follows the weekly, then the monthly, then the seaonsal feast (spring/fall), which also would include the yearly sabbaths that take place within some of them. Notice that not all feasts are sabbaths, and thu are two distinct phenomena.

Again your order is reversed.

2 Chronicles 8:13 -

Notice again:

2Ch 8:13 Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

"certiain rate every day" (meat and drink offerings), is the daily again. This is followed by the weekly, then the monthly and the seasonal festal (spring/fall) and thus includes "three times in the year", or yearly.

You order is reversed.

2 Chronicles 31:3 -

Notice:

2Ch 31:3 He appointed also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD.

Notice the "burnt offerings: for the daily "morning and evening". This is followed by the weekly, then the monthly new moons, and then the seasonal festal (spring/fall), which would include the yearly again.

Your order is reversed.

Nehemiah 10:33 -

Notice:

Neh 10:33 For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Notice the "continual" or daily. Then follows the weekly sabbaths, the monthly new moons, the seaonal festal (spring/fall)), and the ultimate "atonement" is on the Day of Atonement, which is yearly, again.

Your order is reversed.

Isaiah 1:13-14 -

Notice:

Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Isaiah is a little more interesting in that it is paralleled to itself. The "sabbaths" are specific to "appointed feasts" in their seaons, not the weekly 7th day the sabbath of the Lord. God would never tell His people to transgress His Law of Ten Commandments. however, He would make mention of those things which were to point forward to Christ Jesus that they were abusing.

Again this would teach, and increasing order, "new moons", "sabbaths (identified as those in the appointed feasts)".

Thus your order is reversed.

Ezekiel 45:17 -

This is what Paul cites in Colossians 2:16 and already demonstrated to not be as you stated, but also in reverse of what you stated.

Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

See those replies. Again, it is in increasing order, daily (offerings), seasonal festal, monthly new moons, yearly sabbaths, all dealing with the sanctuary services as context showed.

Ezekiel 46:1-11 -

Notice, just an expansion of Ezekiel 45:17:

Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.
Eze 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.
Eze 46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
Eze 46:6 And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.
Eze 46:7 And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
Eze 46:8 And when the prince shall enter, he shall go in by the way of the porch of that gate, and he shall go forth by the way thereof.
Eze 46:9 But when the people of the land shall come before the LORD in the solemn feasts, he that entereth in by the way of the north gate to worship shall go out by the way of the south gate; and he that entereth by the way of the south gate shall go forth by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go forth over against it.
Eze 46:10 And the prince in the midst of them, when they go in, shall go in; and when they go forth, shall go forth.
Eze 46:11 And in the feasts and in the solemnities the meat offering shall be an ephah to a bullock, and an ephah to a ram, and to the lambs as he is able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

Hosea 2:11

Notice:

Hos 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Context, "her sabbaths", which are "[their] sabbaths", and is not God's Sabbath (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodu 20:8-11), as shown earlier. The fulfillment of Daniel 9.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

liberty of conscience said:
Also:

"Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts.

The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB].

Colossians 2:14 - "ordinances"
Ephesians 2:15 - "law of commandments contained in ordinances"
Hebrews 9:1 - "ordinances of divine service"
Hebrews 9:10 - "carnal ordinances"

Colossians 2:16 - "in meat, or in drink" [offerings]
Hebrews 9:10 - "meats and drinks" [offerings]

Colossians 2:12 - "also ye are risen with him"
Ephesians 2:6 - "raised us up together"

Colossians 2:16 - "a shadow of things to come"
Ephesians 2:7 - "in the ages to come"
Hebrews 9:11 - "of good things to come"
Hebrews 10:1 - "the law having a shadow of good things to come", "those sacrifices", "offered year by year"

[ps. none of the Ten Commandments deal with carnal sacrifices]
It speaks of plural, "sabbath days" (or 'of sabbaths'). The context, is also not concerned with all 'sabbaths' but is limited in scope, to that which is "shadow" (not light, not body or substance), that which is "of things to come" (type pointing to the future events) and of "ordinances", as follows.

[1] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, of Creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), was given to mankind (Adam) before the sin of mankind (Mark 2:27), before the need of shadow and type, which were given after the sin of mankind, under the Levitical priesthood.

[2] The Sabbath of the LORD the God, is a memorial (pointing backwards, thu the words "Remember" (Exodus 20:8)), to a perfect world without sin, perfect relationship, perfect rest), and is not pointing to the future.

[3] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is singular and specific. "The seventh day" "the sabbath" "of the LORD thy God".

Exodus 20:8 KJB - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:9 KJB - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exodus 20:10 KJB - But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exodus 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus 20:8 HOT - זכור את־יום השׁבת לקדשׁו׃
Exodus 20:9 HOT - שׁשׁת ימים תעבד ועשׂית כל־מלאכתך׃
Exodus 20:10 HOT - ויום השׁביעי שׁבת ליהוה אלהיך לא־תעשׂה כל־מלאכה אתה ובנך־ובתך עבדך ואמתך ובהמתך וגרך אשׁר בשׁעריך׃
Exodus 20:11 HOT - כי שׁשׁת־ימים עשׂה יהוה את־השׁמים ואת־הארץ את־הים ואת־כל־אשׁר־בם וינח ביום השׁביעי על־כן ברך יהוה את־יום השׁבת ויקדשׁהו׃

Exodus 20:8 HOT Translit. - zäkhôr et-yôm haSHaBät l'qaD'shô
Exodus 20:9 HOT Translit. - shëshet yämiym Taávod w'äsiytä Käl-m'lakh'Tekhä
Exodus20:10 HOT Translit. -w'yôm haSH'viyiy shaBät layhwäh éloheykhä lo-taáseh khäl-m'läkhäh aTäh ûvin'khä-ûviTekhä av'D'khä waámät'khä ûv'hem'Tekhä w'gër'khä ásher Bish'äreykhä
Exodus 20:11 HOT Translit. - Kiy shëshet-yämiym äsäh y'hwäh et-haSHämayim w'et-hääretz et-haYäm w'et-Käl-ásher-Bäm waYänach BaYôm haSH'viyiy al-Kën Bërakh' y'hwäh et-yôm haSHaBät way'qaD'shëhû š

[4] The Sabbath of the LORD is separate from the yearly festal sabbaths, as denoted in Leviticus 23 (see Leviticus 23:3; then see Leviticus 23:4,38 "beside the sabbaths of the LORD")

[5] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is called "the sabbath of the LORD" (Exodus 20:8-11, etc), and "My sabbaths" (Isaiah 56:4; Ezekiel 20:20), as opposed to theirs, called "your sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,35), and "her sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,43; 2 Chronicles 26:31; Lamentations 1:7; Hosea 2:11), etc.

[6] Colossians 2, in its entire context says nothing about "the seventh day", but speaks of merely the shadow sabbaths (plural, not singular), and says nothing of "commandment" (as Luke 23:54,56 does), but speaks of wordly "ordinances" (Colossians 2:14,20).

[7] Colossians 2, speaks of "sins" (Colossians 2:13), which is "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4), of which the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is central, whereas the yearly (and of years) sabbaths are not given in the Ten Commandments at all.

More can be said, but 7 was a good number to round it off at this point, there is more detail as necessary ..." - cited with edits, as there was an entire well presented study already posted online awhile ago (and I will simply refer to it)- SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

Colossians 2:16:

[1] daily (meat and drink (offerings))
[2] seaonally (feast days, in their seasons, spring, fall)
[3] monthly (new moons)
[4] of year (sabbath days, yearly see Leviticus 23 & 25)

Numbers 28 & 29; 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Nehemiah 10:33; Isaiah 1:13-14; Ezekiel 45:17, 46:1-11; Hosea 2:11, and see also Galatians 4:10; Colossians 2:16

Numbers 28:1-8 KJB, is the "continual" or "day by day" offerings, aka 'the daily'.

Numbers 28:9-10 KJB, is the "every sabbath" on "the sabbath day", which is the weekly 7th day Sabbath offerings.

Numbers 28:11-15 KJB, is the "beginnings of your months", and "every month", or monthly offerings.

Numbers 28:16-25 KJB is the "in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD" and "in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread", which is the seasonal feast of Passover and of unleavened bread of the spring, and would be the spring seasonal offering, or even the first feast of the religious year offering.

Numbers 28:26-31 KJB is the "in the day of the firstfruits" and "after your weeks", or the seaonal wavesheaf offering along with Pentecost [feast of weeks], which basically closes the seasonal spring feasts.

Numbers 29:1-6 KJB continues them of the seasonal feasts "in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets", which is the seasonal fall feast of Trumpets and its offerings.

Numbers 29:7-11 KJB is the "have on the tenth day of this seventh month an holy convocation; and ye shall afflict your souls: ye shall not do any work therein", "of atonement", or the seasonal fall feast of the day of atonement offering.

Numbers 29:12-40 KJB is the "on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days", which is the final seasonal fall feast of booths/ingathering/tabernacles offerings. Which completes the full offerings in the year.
Galatians 4:10 -
You are in great error here, seeing as you reversed the textual order to being with:

Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

1 Chronicles 23:31 -

Please notice:

1Ch 23:30 And to stand every morning to thank and praise the LORD, and likewise at even;
1Ch 23:31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:

Vs 30 begins with the "daily", even the "morning" and "even[ing]".
vs 31 continues with weekly sabbaths, monthly new moons, seasonal feasts (spring/fall), which would also include the yearly sabbaths following.

Therefore, it is again, in increasing, nor decreasing order.

[1] days, [2] weeks, [3] months [4] seasons [5] yearly.

In Colossians 2, the weekly are not included, as they are not "ordinances", but rather God's Law.

Why are you reversing the order from what is clearly given?

2 Chronicles 2:4 -

Notice again:

2Ch 2:4 Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

Notice the "continual", which is the "daily" as seen by the "morning and evening" again. Then follows the weekly, then the monthly, then the seaonsal feast (spring/fall), which also would include the yearly sabbaths that take place within some of them. Notice that not all feasts are sabbaths, and thu are two distinct phenomena.

Again your order is reversed.

2 Chronicles 8:13 -

Notice again:

2Ch 8:13 Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

"certiain rate every day" (meat and drink offerings), is the daily again. This is followed by the weekly, then the monthly and the seasonal festal (spring/fall) and thus includes "three times in the year", or yearly.

You order is reversed.

2 Chronicles 31:3 -

Notice:

2Ch 31:3 He appointed also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD.

Notice the "burnt offerings: for the daily "morning and evening". This is followed by the weekly, then the monthly new moons, and then the seasonal festal (spring/fall), which would include the yearly again.

Your order is reversed.

Nehemiah 10:33 -

Notice:

Neh 10:33 For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Notice the "continual" or daily. Then follows the weekly sabbaths, the monthly new moons, the seaonal festal (spring/fall)), and the ultimate "atonement" is on the Day of Atonement, which is yearly, again.

Your order is reversed.

Isaiah 1:13-14 -

Notice:

Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Isaiah is a little more interesting in that it is paralleled to itself. The "sabbaths" are specific to "appointed feasts" in their seaons, not the weekly 7th day the sabbath of the Lord. God would never tell His people to transgress His Law of Ten Commandments. however, He would make mention of those things which were to point forward to Christ Jesus that they were abusing.

Again this would teach, and increasing order, "new moons", "sabbaths (identified as those in the appointed feasts)".

Thus your order is reversed.

Ezekiel 45:17 -

This is what Paul cites in Colossians 2:16 and already demonstrated to not be as you stated, but also in reverse of what you stated.

Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

See those replies. Again, it is in increasing order, daily (offerings), seasonal festal, monthly new moons, yearly sabbaths, all dealing with the sanctuary services as context showed.

Ezekiel 46:1-11 -

Notice, just an expansion of Ezekiel 45:17:

Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.
Eze 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.
Eze 46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
Eze 46:6 And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.
Eze 46:7 And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
Eze 46:8 And when the prince shall enter, he shall go in by the way of the porch of that gate, and he shall go forth by the way thereof.
Eze 46:9 But when the people of the land shall come before the LORD in the solemn feasts, he that entereth in by the way of the north gate to worship shall go out by the way of the south gate; and he that entereth by the way of the south gate shall go forth by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go forth over against it.
Eze 46:10 And the prince in the midst of them, when they go in, shall go in; and when they go forth, shall go forth.
Eze 46:11 And in the feasts and in the solemnities the meat offering shall be an ephah to a bullock, and an ephah to a ram, and to the lambs as he is able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

Hosea 2:11

Notice:

Hos 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Context, "her sabbaths", which are "[their] sabbaths", and is not God's Sabbath (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodu 20:8-11), as shown earlier. The fulfillment of Daniel 9.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

Sorry, too long to read... Just answer this question: In Colossians 2:16 what do you consider the last word "sabbaths" to represent? Keep it short.

liberty of conscience · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Just answer this question: In Colossians 2:16 what do you consider the last word "sabbaths" to represent? Keep it short.

Yearly/of years (shadow, carnal, ordinance, their/her) sabbaths (contextually).

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

liberty of conscience said:
Yearly/of years (shadow, carnal, ordinance, their/her) sabbaths (contextually).

So I was right, you do not believe the last word "sabbaths" is the weekly Sabbath.

liberty of conscience · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
So I was right, you do not believe the last word "sabbaths" is the weekly Sabbath.

Doesn't matter what I believe, what matters is what it says contextually.

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

liberty of conscience said:
Doesn't matter what I believe, what matters is what it says contextually.

So, contextually, you interpret the last "sabbaths" to not be the weekly Sabbath.

BTW, are you SDA or Messianic? Or what? Why hide behind the generic, "Christian"?

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