Why evolution isn't scientific

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the iconoclast

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Please, give me a break.

Hey hey dh :)

I formally give you permission to have
a pause in work or during an activity or event. :)

Stop with the endless leading questions that you use like a carrot on a stick to try and lure me into some silly point you already had in your mind even before asking the first question.

It wasnt a problem for you previously my dear. You were more than willing to be lured but now your motivation has slumped. :)

What has changed?

Again: just make your point and stop with the time wasting.

My dear, YOU engaged me. You decided to join a conversation that was not directed at you. This challenge is not a 'gotcha' and it will need participation for you - if you want to continue.

Don't ask me what I think about every step on the way to you making your point.

All i want to know is if you agree on the definition of facts. This is not a trap, we need to be on the same page!

Just lay out your premises and give your invalid conclusion already.

The premise is to test kylies logic. The conclusion will be reached when it is reached. You seem to not get this so i have a wonderful idea. Lets start a new conversation, is there anything you would like to chat about?

I'm not a 5-year old.

Well considering you are a software engineer and have a child, i would assume you are much older. :)

My valuable time.

You come here alot, what do you hope to get out of your time on cf?

Cheers
 
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DogmaHunter

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It wasnt a problem for you previously my dear. You were more than willing to be lured but now your motivation has slumped. :)

What has changed?

My opinion concerning your sincerity and honesty.



My dear, YOU engaged me. You decided to join a conversation that was not directed at you. This challenge is not a 'gotcha' and it will need participation for you - if you want to continue.

All i want to know is if you agree on the definition of facts. This is not a trap, we need to be on the same page!

The premise is to test kylies logic. The conclusion will be reached when it is reached. You seem to not get this so i have a wonderful idea. Lets start a new conversation, is there anything you would like to chat about?

I see you still haven't made your point.
I guess you don't have a point then.

So that's that then, I guess.
 
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the iconoclast

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My opinion concerning your sincerity and honesty.

Hey hey dh :)
Your opinion of me is fascinating ;)

I see you still haven't made your point.

Please excuse me. I shall better explain myself.

I like to converse with @Kylie as well as a few different ppl round cf - pls dont let this effect our relationship. :)

I was reading a discussion where she implied that another mans logic was unsatisfactory and not up to standard. So im like 'hey lets engage kylie and test her logic'. So after a bit of back and forth - actually 1 post each :) - i proposed a challenge to her.

Iconoclast said,
"Hey hey kylie and thank you for your reply :) Lets have some fun ;)

I know you love a challenge!

I would like to put forward a challenge to you. :) I propose 'the super fun time kylies logic challenge'.

Logic is reason conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity. One must have the quality of being logically or factually sound (.eg to have regard to what is actually the case; in relation to fact.)

Logic must be based on a valid reason or good judgement, weighed on the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

I will make a statement.

You can have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ!

What do you think about this statement? (.eg in a logical, sensible way.)

Thank you :)"



I remember the moment quite clearly :)

Anyways she replied to the effect that she believes God does not exist so she cannot have a relationship with him. There is no objective evidence for God but there is for her.

I was very intrigued by this response. I asked her how she could prove her existance to me. She said she would come to me and shake me by the shoulders.

So i asked her

Icon - "So if we wanna know if each other is a being and can be known. One or the other will need to make contact, go through the right channels, get the right info and find where the other is?
Cheers"

Kylie - "That's one way of doing it. There are other ways, I'm sure."

Icon - "What other ways can you suggest"

That was a brief description of the conversation that was not aimed at you. My end game is for you to come to Jesus and atm there is no point im trying to make.

Soon we shall have a reply from kylie, hang around and find out.

I guess you don't have a point then.

I proposed a logic challenge to kylie ie

"You can have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ!
What do you think about this statement? (.eg in a logical, sensible way.)"

I know you are filled with anticipation to see the conclusion and where this is leading but you will have to be patient my dear.

Or would you like to join in?

Actually what a marvellous idea.

I would like to put forward a challenge to you. :) I propose 'the super fun time kylies logic challenge'.

Logic is reason conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity. One must have the quality of being logically or factually sound (.eg to have regard to what is actually the case; in relation to fact.)

Logic must be based on a valid reason or good judgement, weighed on the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

I will make a statement.

You can have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ!

What do you think about this statement? (.eg in a logical, sensible way.)

What u think he who hunts a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

- Shhhh dont mention the scientific method ppls - :)

So that's that then, I guess.

No my dear! Im ready for you when you are ready for me :)

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Philippians 2:11
and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Cheers
 
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DogmaHunter

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My end game is for you to come to Jesus and atm there is no point im trying to make.

What Jesus?

What do you think about this statement?

Just another religious claim that requires faith belief to be accepted.
Just like all other religious claims.

"Logic" is not part of the equation. Only "faith" is.

I don't do faith. Nore is faith logical.
 
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VirOptimus

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Hey hey dh :)
Your opinion of me is fascinating ;)



Please excuse me. I shall better explain myself.

I like to converse with @Kylie as well as a few different ppl round cf - pls dont let this effect our relationship. :)

I was reading a discussion where she implied that another mans logic was unsatisfactory and not up to standard. So im like 'hey lets engage kylie and test her logic'. So after a bit of back and forth - actually 1 post each :) - i proposed a challenge to her.

Iconoclast said,
"Hey hey kylie and thank you for your reply :) Lets have some fun ;)

I know you love a challenge!

I would like to put forward a challenge to you. :) I propose 'the super fun time kylies logic challenge'.

Logic is reason conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity. One must have the quality of being logically or factually sound (.eg to have regard to what is actually the case; in relation to fact.)

Logic must be based on a valid reason or good judgement, weighed on the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

I will make a statement.

You can have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ!

What do you think about this statement? (.eg in a logical, sensible way.)

Thank you :)"



I remember the moment quite clearly :)

Anyways she replied to the effect that she believes God does not exist so she cannot have a relationship with him. There is no objective evidence for God but there is for her.

I was very intrigued by this response. I asked her how she could prove her existance to me. She said she would come to me and shake me by the shoulders.

So i asked her

Icon - "So if we wanna know if each other is a being and can be known. One or the other will need to make contact, go through the right channels, get the right info and find where the other is?
Cheers"

Kylie - "That's one way of doing it. There are other ways, I'm sure."

Icon - "What other ways can you suggest"

That was a brief description of the conversation that was not aimed at you. My end game is for you to come to Jesus and atm there is no point im trying to make.

Soon we shall have a reply from kylie, hang around and find out.



I proposed a logic challenge to kylie ie

"You can have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ!
What do you think about this statement? (.eg in a logical, sensible way.)"

I know you are filled with anticipation to see the conclusion and where this is leading but you will have to be patient my dear.

Or would you like to join in?

Actually what a marvellous idea.

I would like to put forward a challenge to you. :) I propose 'the super fun time kylies logic challenge'.

Logic is reason conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity. One must have the quality of being logically or factually sound (.eg to have regard to what is actually the case; in relation to fact.)

Logic must be based on a valid reason or good judgement, weighed on the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

I will make a statement.

You can have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ!

What do you think about this statement? (.eg in a logical, sensible way.)

What u think he who hunts a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

- Shhhh dont mention the scientific method ppls - :)



No my dear! Im ready for you when you are ready for me :)

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Philippians 2:11
and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Cheers

This sounds like general apologetics, not allowed here.
 
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xianghua

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For example, if we were talking about dolphins, there's no way you could find a fossil dolphin that lived 50 million years ago, since that was before Ambulocetus,

no problem. we can say that we just didnt found yet older Ambulocetus fossils. again: this happen all the time (missing fossils/pushing back fossils).
 
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xianghua

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Yeah, this thing how small mutations can build up and cause changes? It's called EVOLUTION.


actually its called "imagination", since you need to imagine how it can happen in millions of years.


Do you think evolution is random? It's not.

evolution isnt random but if we are dealing with mixing parts to form a flagellum from non flagellum we indeed talking about random mix.

bottom line: you said that evolution can explain how the flagellum evolved. but as we have seen- the opposite is true.
 
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DogmaHunter

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actually its called "imagination", since you need to imagine how it can happen in millions of years.




evolution isnt random but if we are dealing with mixing parts to form a flagellum from non flagellum we indeed talking about random mix.

bottom line: you said that evolution can explain how the flagellum evolved. but as we have seen- the opposite is true.

It really is as if you simply do not read the responses you get.

All this has been explained to your multiple times alread, spread over multiple months.
 
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Kylie

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Hey hey kylie :)

What other ways can you suggest :)

Cheers

No idea. But let's not get off topic, okay? I have given you a testable and repeatable way by which I could prove to you that I exist.

Now, your turn.

Lets say my argument is God does not exist and i refuse to believe. I could be myself, a more complex form of imaginary friend, or maybe this is a hallucination?

How do you prove to me - with objective evidence - that God exists and can be known?
 
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Kylie

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no problem. we can say that we just didnt found yet older Ambulocetus fossils. again: this happen all the time (missing fossils/pushing back fossils).

No. Evolution doesn't work that way.

Ambulocetus shows many indications of having evolved from earlier species, so if we push ambulocetus back, you'll have to push those back as well. Eventually you'll be pushing back hundreds or even thousands of species, all with no evidence to support doing it.

So no, you can't just push things back like that.
 
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Kylie

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actually its called "imagination", since you need to imagine how it can happen in millions of years.

I'm not sure how you think reality works, bu you seem to be way off.

Things have happened without anyone imagining them.

evolution isnt random but if we are dealing with mixing parts to form a flagellum from non flagellum we indeed talking about random mix.

bottom line: you said that evolution can explain how the flagellum evolved. but as we have seen- the opposite is true.

Once again, your ignorance of evolution has lead to you being completely wrong.

Evolution myths: The bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex

What is so difficult to understand how a thing that originally developed for use in one way can be taken to be used in a different way?
 
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xianghua

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I'm not sure how you think reality works, bu you seem to be way off.

Things have happened without anyone imagining them.



Once again, your ignorance of evolution has lead to you being completely wrong.

Evolution myths: The bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex

What is so difficult to understand how a thing that originally developed for use in one way can be taken to be used in a different way?
actually you showing your own ignorance. you cant just take several parts and mix them to get a new complex system. say that the chance to evolve a special mutation that can mix 2 parts is about one in a million, then the chance to mix about 10 different parts to form the flagellum is about one in 1000000^10. its extremely unlikely.
 
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xianghua

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Ambulocetus shows many indications of having evolved from earlier species, so if we push ambulocetus back, you'll have to push those back as well

so?. as you can see here evolutionists have no problem to push back many species at once:

1024px-Zachelmie_tracks_vs_selected_Devonian_fossils.svg.png

(image from wiki)

so this is incorrect..
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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so?. as you can see here evolutionists have no problem to push back many species at once:

1024px-Zachelmie_tracks_vs_selected_Devonian_fossils.svg.png

(image from wiki)

so this is incorrect..

Except that you have been told countless times THAT IS NOT THE CASE.
At this point, this is just outright lying from you.
 
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