The question cessationists must answer.

YeshuaFan said:

Many of those holding to woF say that when we end with the prayer of God, your will be done, that is a lack of faith!

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WOF is not sound doctrine.

swordsman1 said:

Are we not cured of our sicknesses, pain and disabilities in heaven then?

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Doesn't God tell us that blessed is the departure of the saint unto glory?

W2L said:

Our inheritance is waiting in heaven. (1 Peter 1:4)

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woF holds that we need not want to get that in Heaven, for if we had enough faith, can claim and get it all here and now!

swordsman1 said:

If an apostle (as you claim to be) wrote an epistle (as you claim to have done) then it was included in the canon. Shouldn't yours be added too?

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Just writing a letter (epistle) to churches does not mean it should be added to scripture. If that were the case then every so called pastor who writes a sermon (so called) to a church should be added as well. That is unsound reasoning.

We know that there were certain prophets all through the New testament who spoke often and we do not have every word they spoke added to scripture. All the other apostles spoke many things in Christ to churches and we do not have every word they spoke.

Again, it is unsound reasoning to say that a letter (epistle) written to a church should be added to scripture.

swordsman1 said:

The qualification was not being an eyewitness from John, it was being an eye-witness of the resurrected Christ (Acts 1:22). That was Paul's appeal as evidence of his apostleship.

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Either you are trying to avoid clear scripture because it corrects your stance or you are not aware of the text. Either way, we read about the choosing of Matthias. This was a specific ministration, different than the Ephesians 4:11 apostles after the resurrection.

"Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.(Acts 1:21,22 KJV)

Paul, Barnabas, Timotheus, Silvanus and Titus, as far as we know did not meet all these qualifications.

Paul simply mentions many aspects of his ministry one of them was seeing the Lord Jesus Christ (when he saw a bright light).

swordsman1 said:

Silus, Timothy and Titus were not apostles as I have explained. We know Barnabas was an apostle because scripture said he was..

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Again, scripture clearly says Timotheus and Silvanus were apostles, as I have shown before. This is as clear as Barnabas being called an apostle after the resurrection.

"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ."(1 Thessalonians 1:1 KJV)

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"Nor of men sought we [Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus] glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we [Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus] might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ."(1 Thessalonians 2:6 KJV)

Francis Drake said:

You are misquoting me again. I despise cessationism, as I would any doctrine of demons.
I merely acknowledged the apostles that were listed in the scriptures had died 2000 years ago.

But the claim that the ministry of apostle died with them is completely false. If apostles and prophets have ceased, then it stands to reason that all the others have also ceased.

And if the ministry gifts have ceased, then all of today's teachers pastors and evangelists are frauds and liars and have nothing to do with God.

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Are there modern Apostles and prophets who are getting new revelations from God today to give us, that was not in the Bible, and can they do the signs and wonders Apostles did?

YeshuaFan said:

woF holds that we need not want to get that in Heaven, for if we had enough faith, can claim and get it all here and now!

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Jesus says not to store wealth on earth but in heaven.

W2L said:

The Holy Spirit teacher is promised to all those who keep the words of Christ. In the apostles day teachers were sent to teach those words. We need no teacher today because we have the words Christ wanted us to have. Men in the Church have added to that word their traditions and have caused great divisions in the body. They think they are apostles and teachers but they cant discern this truth . For this reason i seek guidance from God Himself, not any teacher.

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God has still given godly teachers and pastors to give forth and reveal the scriptures to us, but they are NOT giving forth any new revelations to us!

Francis Drake said:

Exactly, thanks.
I have seen similar this many times, and it is one of the most evil of Satan's catalogue of Doctrines of demons.
Shame on those who perpetuate it.

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God decides when to call his own home, and you can confess and name every healing promise in the Bible and if it is departure time...

Francis Drake said:

You are quoting rules of men, not the Lord Jesus.

Again you are making stuff up.
Not all apostles wrote scripture, and some scripture was written by those not listed as apostles. ie. Mark and Luke.
And I have repeatedly stated that the gifts today are not about adding to the canon, so please stop making that idiotic accusation.

Nothing I have ever said makes me remotely like you or any other cessationist.

Cessationism is a doctrine of demons. ​

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We are not saying all spiritual gifts ceased, but that certain ones did with the Apostles, and we have 1900 years of church history on our side!

Francis Drake said:

All of which has nothing to do with the demonic claim that dying is healing.
I challenge you to show me anywhere in scripture that says dying is any form of healing.

John10v10“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

According to Jesus, the antithesis of death is abundant life. But according to your sick theology, someone dying is the same as abundant life.

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Our full possession of what God has for us is in Heaven, and is not the promised glorified physical body superior by far to any physical healing done here for us?

YeshuaFan said:

God has still given godly teachers and pastors to give forth and reveal the scriptures to us, but they are NOT giving forth any new revelations to us!

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Why are the teachers supposedly called by God but they teach fallible traditions?

W2L said:

WOF is not sound doctrine.

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True, as it brings God down to our levels, and makes us to be gods! Its outdoing Mormonism!

LoveofTruth said:

Just writing a letter (epistle) to churches does not mean it should be added to scripture. If that were the case then every so called pastor who writes a sermon (so called) to a church should be added as well. That is unsound reasoning.

We know that there were certain prophets all through the New testament who spoke often and we do not have every word they spoke added to scripture. All the other apostles spoke many things in Christ to churches and we do not have every word they spoke.

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Whenever an apostle (Paul, John, Peter, etc) wrote an epistle it was added to the canon. Apostles were spokesmen for Christ. You claim to be an apostle like Paul, so why aren't your epistles added to the canon?

I'm not talking about pastors or prophets, I'm talking about apostles.

LoveofTruth said:

Either you are trying to avoid clear scripture because it corrects your stance or you are not aware of the text. Either way, we read about the choosing of Matthias. This was a specific ministration, different than the Ephesians 4:11 apostles after the resurrection.

"Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.(Acts 1:21,22 KJV)

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You have misread the passage. Read it again. It says "Wherefore OF these men......... must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection"

Out of all the men who knew Jesus throughout his ministry, the man they pick must be someone who witnessed the resurrected Christ.

The condition was seeing the resurrected Christ, not being with him since John.

LoveofTruth said:

Paul, Barnabas, Timotheus, Silvanus and Titus, as far as we know did not meet all these qualifications.

Paul simply mentions many aspects of his ministry one of them was seeing the Lord Jesus Christ (when he saw a bright light).

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Paul saw the resurrected Christ, he said so. Barnabas was in the church from shortly after its inception so he no doubt saw the risen Christ in his numerous appearances to the early church. The others were not apostles.

LoveofTruth said:

Again, scripture clearly says Timotheus and Silvanus were apostles, as I have shown before. This is as clear as Barnabas being called an apostle after the resurrection.

"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ."(1 Thessalonians 1:1 KJV)

with

"Nor of men sought we [Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus] glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we [Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus] might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ."(1 Thessalonians 2:6 KJV)

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No, Timothy and Silvanus were not apostles. As I explained in my earlier post.

Alithis said:

You may want to listen to it more then once.
The mibd takes a while to get renewed.
The word anointed

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I don't think I need to. Like I said, he only had one point I disagreed very much with. Obviously we filter all things through our prior 'screen POV'.

Is about being apointed to a task or office.
Its nothing about power.

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I understand the difference between an 'anointing' and an 'appointing' and 'callings and commissionings' and 'soulish talents vs spirit giftings'. Yes, David was 'anointed' king as a boy, but never appointed (with power of the 'kingdom's crown) until a man years later. I still think 'our kingdom rulings' are still subject to 'His kingdom sovereignty'. IOW a 'word from Him' to move in 'faith' and not 'presumption'.

The power or authority is what any believee is appointed to walk in once they recieve the Holy Spirit.

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OK here we go. Which Holy Spirit/holy spirit, and what power? I believe upon your spirit being born anew into the holy spirit of Christ in you, you have all the authority and anointing/power (of YOUR will) to walk in sinlessness, just like Jesus did. And then, when you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit you have another anointing to be used whenever the Holy Spirit wants to manifest His gift through you "as He wills", but not 'just as I will'. This POV lines up with that of Jesus who only 'said' and 'did' what He heard the Father 'saying/doing'. Jesus did this because 'His will' was surrendered to the Father's will. And the Father spoke in FELLOWSHIP with Jesus authorizing Holy Spirit POWER and not just based upon their RELATIONSHIP (the Christ spirit in Jesus). Otherwise I just feel like we are assuming the throne of God, instead of acting as priests for God's throne.

Once ww have. We then begin to take action because we believe in JESUS.
Not be cause we wait around for some mystical feeling.

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Here is where scripture confirms my POV again, I think. Scripture talks about having "faith IN Jesus", but it also talks about having the "faith OF Jesus". And where does 'faith' come from? Is it not by 'hearing a word from God'? That's what Jesus said he does and that's what we need to do also IMO. If we exercise 'unlawfu/lawlessnessl' authority and power I believe it is those 'healings, deliverances, etc.' which we will receive no 'rewards' for on the day of judgment for our 'works'. Even those those who were healed and delivered are healthy and free. We exercised a 'good thing' by the power of God, but it wasn't a 'God thing' concerning His FELLOWSHIP with us. Kind of like 'borrowing' dad's credit card without asking. Same 'relationship' last name on it, but not the 'fellowship' of using it with dad's approval.

Im not a full time Gospel worker because i recieved some special anointing.
Im one because i .same as others, received the holy Spirit .

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I now remember, we've talked about this before now. And I remember asking you in our first meeting concerning this point. You do not capitalize 'holy' but do 'Spirit' here. I thought then, that it was because you might have had an understanding similar to me. But now I'm not sure why you do it that way. Can you explain your reasoning? To me it is either 'holy spirit' or it is 'Holy Spirit'.

..i repented of not believing i already have the holy spirit... And began to do (and learn)what the lord jesus told us to do.

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Once again, now you say 'holy spirit' which is the spirit of Christ received at the new birth. The same spirit ALL Christians receive at their new birth. The same authoity/power we all have to get free of sin personally. I'm not asking that you agree with me on this, but hopefully you do see where I'm coming from as I understand things.

Just saying the facts...
It led to us both leaving jobs selling house forsaking seeking anything worldy and doing the great commission.

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Christ dwells in hearts by faith therefore if we increase faith.

GAL 4:19 My little children (immature believers), of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Our paths and callings are different, which is OK. God has different ways to accomplish His goals through those who 'diligently serve HIM' with our varied 'callings' and 'talents' and 'giftings'.

W2L said:

Why are the teachers supposedly called by God but they teach fallible traditions?

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the scriptures never stated that the pastors and teachers will be infallible in their teachings of the Bible, but will be gifted by God to be able to expound upon. Only Apostles are gifted to have infallible theologies!

YeshuaFan said:

God has still given godly teachers and pastors to give forth and reveal the scriptures to us, but they are NOT giving forth any new revelations to us!

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What you will call it if God reveals a problem we don't know about, spiritual or normal?

W2L said:

Jesus says not to store wealth on earth but in heaven.

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True, and we have eternal rewards in Heaven, but not here upon the earth!

swordsman1 said:

Whenever an apostle (Paul, John, Peter, etc) wrote an epistle it was added to the canon. Apostles were spokesmen for Christ. You claim to be an apostle like Paul, so why aren't your epistles added to the canon?

I'm not talking about pastors or prophets, I'm talking about apostles.



You have misread the passage. Read it again. It says "Wherefore OF these men......... must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection"

Out of all the men who knew Jesus throughout his ministry, the man they pick must be someone who witnessed the resurrected Christ.

The condition was seeing the resurrected Christ, not being with him since John.



Paul saw the resurrected Christ, he said so. Barnabas was in the church from shortly after its inception so he no doubt saw the risen Christ in his numerous appearances to the early church. The others were not apostles.




No, Timothy and Silvanus were not apostles. As I explained in my earlier post.

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One was a pastor, other was a scribe... And IF our Brother was a real Apostle, he would have infallible theology, and we would have to heed him!

NBB said:

What you will call it if God reveals a problem we don't know about, spiritual or normal?

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God might give you a passage or scripture to give to someone, but would not be working as either a Prophet or Apostle in that case!

YeshuaFan said:

God might give you a passage or scripture to give to someone, but would not be working as either a Prophet or Apostle in that case!

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And if you pray and God reveals to you a problem, an specific one, that you would have not a clue otherwise knowing it from scripture etc.? that is a revelation. Not scripture but still.