IS THE LORD'S DAY REALLY SUNDAY OR GOD'S SABBATH DAY?

parousia70 said:

Where does scripture teach the difference?

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LoveGodsWord said:

Here let me help with this one...

ACTS 15: You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.


ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

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NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

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[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

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NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.

They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..

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[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

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NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. CIRCUMCIONS is from the law of MOSES not God’s 10 Commandments written by God on two tables of stone.

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[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

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NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

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[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

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NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15

You do not believe brother, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

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[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

[23], And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greetings unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
[24], Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
[25], It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
[26], Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[27], We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
[28], For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
[29], That you abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Farewell.

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CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

NOPE nothing written about the 10 Commandments in this chapter. Here is what PAUL says of the matter here...

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Yep you may need to revisit your thinking of ACTS 15. CIRCUMCISION is not the 10 Commandments. It is from the Shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

So yes brother I have read ACTS 15 and it is not teaching what you are suggesting. If it was then we are all free to murder, commit adultery, lie, steal whic is in contradiction to 1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 above, ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; MATTHEW 5:17-19; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

Hope this helps.

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LoveGodsWord said:

Please address post # 113 linked this has already been discussed highlighting the scriptures that disagree with your interpretation. Your only repeating what you have already said. The BOOK of the LAW is not God's LAW written on stone that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Those who continue in known UNREPENTANT sin will not enter into God's KINGDOM because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son neither do they know God *HEBREWS 10:26-27; ROMANS 6:23; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

Now please can you show me the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY? Where is the scripture that says the LORD'S DAY is SUNDAY? * There is none.

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LoveGodsWord said:

It is ok brother we can agree to disagree? You should for your own peace of mind however be able to show what it is you disagree with and why. We all only answer to God come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48 as we all are responsible for believing and following God's Word.

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GingerBeer said:

I do not confuse Sunday rest and gathering for worship with seventh day Sabbath observance.

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LoveGodsWord said:

Of course it was when did you think the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH started?



Who says I do not believe the early Church was gathering on the first day of the week? God's people were gathering EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.

Acts 2:46-47 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Now where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY? Where is the scripture that says SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY? * There is none.



God's WORD is my historical evidence although I am happy to provide other sources. God's people from GENESIS to the days of JESUS and the APOSTLES to after the death of JESUS to this present day have always kept God's 4th Commandment SABBATH. Is this an argument that the SABBATH is the LORD'S DAY? God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *MATTHEW 12:8

Hope this helps

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LoveGodsWord said:

Now brother who said Christians are UNDER THE LAW?

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Who says I do not believe the early Church was gathering on the first day of the week? God's people were gathering EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.

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Solomon Smith said:

37 Scriptures That Prove Christians Are Not Under The Law

Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!

Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

Well there you have it… 37 scriptures that make a very convincing arguement.

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klutedavid said:

Hey Solomon Smith, can I copy that?

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LoveGodsWord said:

Hi All,

This thread is for scripture only and friendly christian discussion.

We would like to show that the "LORD'S DAY" that many proclaim is SUNDAY is a false teaching and you will not find any scripture support for this teaching in any of God's WORD.

Let's start by looking at the scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

REVELATIONS 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

Can you please provide scripture that says SUNDAY or the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the "LORD'S DAY"?

If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem as your reading into the scriptures something that it is not saying.

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Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?
A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

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Now friend's the SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

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HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)

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ARE YOU FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?

God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

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SIN is breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

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God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

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God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)

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What are your thoughts?

Friendly Christian discussion only please. (It is ok to agree to disagree)

God bless.

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NeedyFollower said:

the Lord's Day is of course every day.

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