Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?
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Solomon Smith
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But hades is cast into the lake of fire a place of eternal punishment.
The word heaven is not mentioned but it’s clear Lazarus was in paradise.
It is believed that after death we go to a temporary holding place (which can be punishment or paradise) awaiting the resurrection of our bodies. Then after the resurrection we are assigned to either heaven or the lake of fire aka hell.
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Those who insist that this is not a parable, but a true and literal story that Christ told to describe the condition of the lost in hell must overlook several facts to arrive at an eternal hell of an idea.
First, Jesus never accuses the rich man of any sin. He is simply portrayed as a wealthy Jew who lived a good life. Furthermore, Lazarus is never proclaimed to be a righteous man. He is just one who had the misfortune to be poor and unable to care for himself. If this story is literal, then the logical implication is that all the rich are destined to burn in hell, while all the homeless and destitute will be saved. Can anyone correctly believe this to be the case?
If this scenario determines ETERNAL HELL or HEAVEN, then the church of the United States is doomed to hell and the refugees are glory bound.
How many times has everyone here reading this walked past a beggar? 
I know this has already been pointed out but; When Jesus told this parable what he said was true, no one could cross the chasm. The cross that bridges the chasm was in the future. No one had gone to preach to the spirits which disbelieved in the days of Noah yet either (1Pet 318-19). But, as the scripture below confirms, 'that' all changed with the suffering of Christ which paid for the eternal consequence of sins for ALL. RECONCILIATION, as far as God's part is concerned, was finished 2000 years ago. And the ULTIMATE reconciliation will be when "every knee bows and every tongue confesses He is Lord" when they see Him. Those of us which were "predestined, called, drawn, chosen, elected" do so in this age accept here. Those who weren't, will do so in the "ages to come" Kind of like doubting Thomas who never believed until He saw and then confessed. So did doubting Thomas display FAITH in the resurrection....or simply factual awareness when he confessed to the risen Lord?
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Solomon Smith
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Wrong. The rich man lived lavishly while Lazarus suffered at his feet. His sin was that he refused to aid his brother whom he knew was suffering. Jesus insinuates this through the telling of the story.
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Sam81
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I speak in prayer tongues myself but without love it's useless. Without both love and paying a cost...you can neither sow nor reap. Not that a Christ murderer would understand. These people are for the purpose of gobbling up the least of these.
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Dorothy Mae
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There is really some irony here. You call me nasty names because I accuse you of cuting and pasting arguments and your post is full of cutting and pasting or links. Sigh! When you learn to present your position without calling those who do not agree nasty names we can talk.
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Sam81
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I've been nasty myself. I haven't been feeling well the last few days...flu or something. Heresy is like a rotten cherry on my poop sundae, especially considering this lie is from hell and it's one I know all too well. Right heart but wrong spirit. Forgive me.
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Nasty names? I have no idea what you're talking about. I suppose that speaks to how you interpret the Scriptures also. It must be hallowe'en season, not Christmas:
10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism
Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism
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Choir Loft
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I fear that many are stuck in a kind of revolving door composed of church doctrine that feeds on itself rather than the Bible.
Almost every opposing remark in support of the existence of hell stands upon buzz words and religious slogans. Very few use considered scriptural references to prove their point. Those that do use scripture to support their particular dogma are confused - because their logic is dysfunctional.
For example, one cannot make assertions about the rewards of eternal life for the saved and also grant that same eternal life to the wicked. Convoluted explanations are necessary to fog the issue and contradict the simple Biblically stated principle that the wicked DIE.
The wicked are not given eternal life at all.
Even everlasting torture is life of a sort. Ask any person who's battled a fatal disease. Pain and suffering are preferable to the alternative of death. Ask anyone who has cancer or some sort of tumor and they will tell you that expensive treatment and debilitating medication is better than death. I know a man who was recently diagnosed with a brain tumor and he says he'll fight it if he must. Whole families suffer the devastating trauma of the fatal illness of a loved one and are willing to fight to the last despite the cost. Life, no matter its quality, is preferable to death. Everlasting torture of hell is the same thing.
God is not a vindictive sociopath that enjoys brutalizing people. People, not God, enjoy that sort of thing as witness to the many on these pages that openly support it, wish it and argue in favor of it. God kills. God doesn't torture.
Death is the absence of the blessing of life - the Second Death is the absolute deletion of the human spirit. There is no remedial program in our cemeteries and there isn't any possibility of forgiveness after death.
"It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment." - Hebrews 9:27
Why is there so much denial of the Second Death? Because sinful mankind wishes to continue in its rebellion against God no matter what.
No amount of lies and insinuation and confusion can keep Bible truth hidden. Those who surrender to God and ask for His life will be granted it. Those who deny it will suffer ultimate extermination in the Second Death.
In Genesis chapter 3, the Enemy of us all called God a liar and said we would not die. Guess again. We will and we do.
It is time to put away false hopes and foreign myths to justify SIN. It is time to repent.
A fool can deny death all his life, but in the end it will have him.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Choir Loft
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Refuted but not accepted.
Doctrine is the deliberate blindness of the self-deceived.
No Bible is necessary to support it, only petitions to vague caliginous ideologies.
Hell is a hate issue, not one deserving of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Bible does not imply or state that there is eternal torture, that God is a vindictive sociopath or that eternal life is granted to the wicked. It says the wicked will die the Second Death - meaning total and complete annihilation.
Hell is not a foundational principle because it isn't even mentioned. How do you get a principle out of obfuscation and myth? How do you get truth out of religious slogans?
The creeds are NOT canonical scripture. They are a composition of religious committees, each one revising and/or rejecting a preceding version. Each one refutes the Bible in one form or another and each one is meant to support the religious infrastructure, not the Kingdom of Heaven or Biblical truth.
Shall the just share the same eternal life as the wicked?
The Bible says they will not. Eternal torture, no matter how bad one imagines it is still life. Ask any cancer patient who endures pain and suffering and mental anguish. They will tell you that any amount of pain and suffering is better than death. Death is the ultimate punishment and loss and THAT is the destiny of the wicked. The Second Death is total destruction of the wicked. There is nothing left, not so much as ashes.
If you accept the fantasy of hell, you deny the justice of God as well as His stated truth.
In Genesis 3 the Enemy lied to Eve and said that she would not die as a result of sin. The Enemy said that God lied, that she and Adam would not die. Guess again. They did. Shall we now in the twenty-first century continue to believe the lies of satan and say that death doesn't exist at all? May it never be. Let the truth of the Bible be affirmed today and forever.
The sinner shall DIE and there shall be no place found for him or her here or hereafter. Only the just in Christ Jesus will be given eternal life. THAT is the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
IS GOD A LIAR WHEN HE SAYS THE SOUL OF THE WICKED SHALL DIE?
"Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.
- Ezekiel 18:4
"The wages of sin is DEATH." - Romans 6:23
"For God so loved loved the world He gave His only son that whoever believed in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
- Jesus as quoted by John 3:16
Which part of DIE do you not understand?
Which part of Jesus' words stating belief is necessary to receive eternal life is not understood? When did Jesus say the non-believer or wicked would also be given eternal life? He did NOT.
Only the lies of satan can confuse so simple a word. Eve and Adam chose to believe satan. So does the post-modern church. Great evil is upon us - the lies of the Enemy are everywhere - even in our religious buzz words.
The days of punishment are coming, the days of reckoning are at hand. Let Israel know this. Because your sins are so many and your hostility so great, the prophet is considered a fool, the inspired person a maniac.
- Hosea 9:7
The church, which now considers itself to be the lawful heir to Biblical Israel,
has committed the same abominations before the Lord as did Israel,
has denied the truth of God's own heart as did ancient Israel,
has placed its own doctrines and traditions above that of the Word of God as did Israel,
is just as adamant in refusing correction as did Israel,
and WILL SUFFER the judgment of God upon it as did Israel.
The demise of the church is at hand.
The judgments of the Lord have already begun upon it.
(1 Peter 4:17)
Hell is a doctrine and tradition of man - not God. The wicked will DIE and be completely obliterated.
Therefore it is time to repent of our SINS and wickedness and to accept the righteousness of Christ in our hearts.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Only the unscriptural doctrines of URites and annihilationists is misty, dim; obscure, dark.
You are correct the bible says nothing about "torture" but it certainly mentions "eternal punishment." Those that believe the Bible when it says "eternal punishment" don't believe any rubbish about God being "a vindictive sociopath" any more than He was a"vindictive sociopath," when He destroyed all life on earth, men, women, young, old, children, infants except for Noah and is family or when God destroyed all life in Sodom and Gomorrah men, women, young, old, children, infants. Recently a man went into a synagogue and ruthlessly murdered 11 people. Now that is a sociopath.CL said:
Wrong as usual! How do you get obfuscation, myth and religious slogans out of the historical evidence I provided from the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud?CL said:
Specious assertions with no, zero, none credible, verifiable, historical evidence.CL said:
In the NT, three Greek words are translated "life" "zoe,""bios" and "psuche." Only "zoe" is ever associated with "life."CL said:
More inane, specious accusations with no, zero, none credible, verifiable, historical evidence.CL]The Bible says they will not. Eternal torture said:
…..In Isa 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, pfft, gone! But God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.
Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell [שאול ] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in . These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.9) Hell [שאול ] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
…..Some will argue that this passage is figurative because fir trees don’t literally rejoice, vs. 8. They will argue that the passage must be figurative since God told Israel “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.” vs. 4. The occurrence of one figurative expression in a passage does not prove that anything else in the passage is figurative.
…..The Hebrew word שאול/mashal translated “proverb” does not necessarily mean something is fictional. For example, Israel did not become fictional when God made them a mashal/proverb in 2 Chronicles 7:20, Psalms 44:14, and Jeremiah 24:9.
…..Here is another passage where God, Himself, is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.
Ezek 32:18-22, 30-31 (KJV)
18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.
Jesus speaking, in the NT a dead man in Hades had eyes, was in torment, saw Abraham, “cried and said,” asked for water, begged Abraham, etc.18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.
Luk 16:22-28
(22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
(27) Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
(28) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
(22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
(27) Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
(28) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
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Solomon Smith
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Do you understand what you’re saying?
Do you know the definition of doctrine?
Doctrine is teaching.
For instance the teaching of the atonement is doctrine.
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Wrong. The rich man lived lavishly while Lazarus suffered at his feet. His sin was that he refused to aid his brother whom he knew was suffering. Jesus insinuates this through the telling of the story.
What was the rich man's sin?
Luke 16:21
(21) And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202.] Against Heresies. Book II. Chap XXIV
In this account He states (Luk_16:19, etc.) that Dives knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him — [Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table.
Deuteronomy 15:7 If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:
(21) And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202.] Against Heresies. Book II. Chap XXIV
In this account He states (Luk_16:19, etc.) that Dives knew Lazarus after death, and Abraham in like manner, and that each one of these persons continued in his own proper position, and that [Dives] requested Lazarus to be sent to relieve him — [Lazarus], on whom he did not [formerly] bestow even the crumbs [which fell] from his table.
Deuteronomy 15:7 If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:
The rich man was required by God's law, Deut 15:7, to supply the needs of the poor beggar but didn't even give him the crumbs from his table.
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Choir Loft
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Why is it so difficult to understand simple terms like fire consumption death and judgment?
I submit it is so because many are persuaded of their myths and religious slogans rather than Biblical truth.
The Lake of Fire is the Second Death. (Revelation 20:14)
Death means the end of life, experience, knowing and being. Death is not life. Death is death. Why is this so hard to understand?
Somebody has been watching too many zombie movies........
The Lake of Fire burns constantly or eternally as the scripture says. That which is tossed into it is destroyed completely and totally. The fire burns, but that which is thrown into it is consumed. The textual allusion is made to teach spiritual reality by means of physical process.
Again - Jesus made reference to gehenna or the valley of Hinnom. This was an actual valley to the south and east of Jerusalem used as a waste dump in the days of Christ. The valley was an accursed place having been used in centuries past as the location of worship of Molech the child eating god.
Gehenna was a waste dump and that which was tossed into it was burned with fire and eaten by vermin and worms and birds. The fires never went out because there was always something new to burn. The worms and birds and vermin never stopped eating because there was always more garbage to eat. Therefore Jesus said the fires never went out and the worm never died.
The fuel for the blaze doesn't last forever. Fuel never does.
Are we learning yet or do we prefer to be obstinate and learn nothing?
If anyone still thinks that fuel will last forever, please give me a call or send me a PM because I want some of that stuff for my car. Such a fuel would bankrupt OPEC over night.
Has common sense completely left the church? How simple does it have to be?
That which is thrown into a fire is burned. The Biblical text is meant to convey a simple meaning to Final Judgment.
The just are given eternal life. The wicked are destroyed.
Please try to think about this seriously and with at least a teaspoon of common sense. Its a serious subject.
Opposition to clear Biblical teaching notwithstanding; stupidity, deliberate confusion and stiff necked opinion are not virtues. You really have to pervert the Word of God pretty badly to arrive at the notion of eternal torture promoted by a god who never does that sort of thing - ever. Humans love the idea, due no doubt to their fallen sinful nature. God does not. The Bible says so.
There is a great deal of religious perversion and doctrines of demons in the world today. The doctrine of hell is one of them.
Bottom line here is that it's time to repent of our sins and seek God's mercy while time remains. After death there is only judgment and no hope for those who've rejected God all their life - because the wicked face total destruction.
How many second chances does a piece of paper have when its tossed into a fire?
This is not rocket science.
Think people.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Solomon Smith
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Jesus said punishment in the fire is eternal:
Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal
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<Cl">Gehenna was a waste dump and that which was tossed into it was burned with fire and eaten by vermin and worms and birds. The fires never went out because there was always something new to burn. The worms and birds and vermin never stopped eating because there was always more garbage to eat. Therefore Jesus said the fires never went out and the worm never died.<end>
Nonsense! You accuse others of being obstinate and learn nothing while you continue to post phony nonsense about Gehenna after having been corrected. Here again is scientific proof that the valley of Gehenna was never used as a garbage dump where trash or anything else was burned constantly.
The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
Scharen: Gehenna in the Synoptics Pt. 1
Note there is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no such evidence.Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
Scharen: Gehenna in the Synoptics Pt. 1
“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location (in any case, a thorough investigation would be appreciated). Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.”
(“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)
G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:
“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna is a myth - Archaeology, Biblical History & Textual Criticism
(“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)
G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:
“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna is a myth - Archaeology, Biblical History & Textual Criticism
<Cl>Cl said:
The fuel for the blaze doesn't last forever. Fuel never does.
Are we learning yet or do we prefer to be obstinate and learn nothing?
If anyone still thinks that fuel will last forever, please give me a call or send me a PM because I want some of that stuff for my car. Such a fuel would bankrupt OPEC over night.
Has common sense completely left the church? How simple does it have to be?
That which is thrown into a fire is burned. The Biblical text is meant to convey a simple meaning to Final Judgment.
<end>
God is omnipotent don't you believe if He wants something to burn forever He can do it? Has common sense completely left the church? How simple does it have to be?
.....Fire usually does burn up anything exposed to it. But when it suits God's purpose fire does not consume what is in the fire.
.....Moses saw a bush on fire but it was not burned up.
Exodus 3:2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.
When Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were thrown into a furnace seven times hotter than normal they were not harmed.Daniel 3:25-26
(25)He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."
(26) Nebuchadnezzar then approached the opening of the blazing furnace and shouted, "Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come out! Come here!" So Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego came out of the fire,
(25)He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."
(26) Nebuchadnezzar then approached the opening of the blazing furnace and shouted, "Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come out! Come here!" So Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego came out of the fire,
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Dear Solomon: Did you notice the Master of Reconciliation in
this very parable is speaking to virgins and those given talents? You will note He is not speaking to harlots, but pure virgins, or pigs and dogs (both unclean animals)>>>>>WHY?
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??? said:
??? said:
Then, by the same reasoning, the "parallel" in Rom.5:19 proves Scriptural universalism to be true:
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.
Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
And your translation of Mt.25:46 contradicts this translation of Lamentations 3:
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.
While these translations (& others) of Mt.25:46 are in harmony with all the verses above i have posted:
The New Testament: A Translation, by Eastern Orthodox scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017, Yale Press):
"And these shall go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age."
Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."
Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition
"And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life."
Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."
Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
"And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."
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