Limited atonement destroyed

redleghunter said:

Again ignoring the distinction of how this creation was waiting for the sons of God and children of God to be revealed. These are Christ’s redeemed who will enter His Kingdom.

Your pas root word fallacy does not negate proper exegesis. This is also the Reading between the lines” fallacy.

The serious issue with Universalist Reconciliation is it lacks a systematic approach to the entire revelation of the Holy Spirit in Holy Scriptures.

That is why these threads go on for pages.

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Dear [staff edit] Red: The Pas/ALL root "fallacy" stares you in the face. You cannot see it being trapped in dogma of the limited God of a few chosen rascals. If you think for a nano second the radical pas/ALL is "fallacy" overwhelming, you will surely hate the radical ultra root koine of ta panta!

From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..

Not "panta" Red, but that wee "ta" preceeding it!

Yes Red, God is the Source, the Guide & the Goal of the ta panta.

FineLinen said:

Rom 8:19-21 All created life shall be set free/ delivered.

Alternate plan b= some of created life shall be set free/ delivered.

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For all creation, gazing eagerly as if with outstretched neck, is waiting and longing to see the manifestation of the sons of God. For the Creation fell into subjection to failure and unreality (not of its own choice, but by the will of Him who so subjected it). Yet there was always the hope that at last the Creation itself would also be set free from the thraldom of decay so as to enjoy the liberty that will attend the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole of Creation is groaning together in the pains of childbirth until this hour. And more than that, we ourselves, though we possess the Spirit as a foretaste and pledge of the glorious future, yet we ourselves inwardly sigh, as we wait and long for open recognition as sons through the deliverance of our bodies.

ClementofA said:

Which is entirely irrelevant to the range of Christ's atonement, whether it be limited or unlimited. And which you have no proven in any case. OTOH there is no scripture saying Jesus died ONLY for a select few. And an abundance of Scriptures which anyone not brainwashed by Calvinism would understand to oppose limited atonement:

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Actually Jesus and John the Baptist refute unlimited atonement as shown in my previous recent posts. Which means you must provide a defeater which shows the unrepentant, unbelieving and rebellious are explicitly mentioned as having access to the atonement in Christ's Blood via the New Covenant.

redleghunter said:

It is quite obvious the Blood of the New Covenant in Christ is not appropriated by unbelief and rebellion. You would need to show where that is explicitly taught.

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Search "limited"

One entry found.

"YOU have limited the Holy One of Israel."

Ta Panta=

ALEXANDER THOMSON: The Meaning of Ta Panta

redleghunter said:

Wow. You are in the wrong chapter of Ephesians to discuss the elect.

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Still cant answer these question.

Here is what you have failed to address now for the 6th time.

Eph:2:11-18

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.



Can the elect ever be said to be without Christ?

Be aliens from the commonwealth of Israel?

strangers from the covenants of promise?

having no hope?

without God in the world?



This should put to rest the Calvinistic thoughts that Jesus only came to save the elect.

Pneuma3 said:

Still cant answer these question.

Here is what you have failed to address now for the 6th time.

Eph:2:11-18

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.



Can the elect ever be said to be without Christ?

Be aliens from the commonwealth of Israel?

strangers from the covenants of promise?

having no hope?

without God in the world?



This should put to rest the Calvinistic thoughts that Jesus only came to save the elect.

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Dear Pneuma: The unlimited Christ, whose essence is Reconciliation, in union with Love/Spirit/Fire & Light, saves & reconciles the all!

"He is [the] reconciliation for our sins AND

not for our sins ONLY

but for the sins of the WHOLE world."

Yup! The whole last sinner of the whole lost world. He IS the hilasmos of the holos.

WHOLE=

Containing the total amount/ number.

Comprising all parts.

FineLinen said:

Dear Pneuma: The unlimited Christ, whose essence is Reconciliation, in union with Love/Spirit/Fire & Light, saves & reconciles the all!

"He is [the] reconciliation for our sins AND

not for our sins ONLY

but for the sins of the WHOLE world."

Yup! The whole last sinner of the whole lost world. He IS the hilasmos of the holos.

WHOLE=

Containing the total amount/ number.

Comprising all parts.

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amen brother. Calvinism imo smacks of segregation, whereas the salvation of all speaks of the brotherhood of man.

Pneuma3 said:

Still cant answer these question.

Here is what you have failed to address now for the 6th time.

Eph:2:11-18

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.



Can the elect ever be said to be without Christ?

Be aliens from the commonwealth of Israel?

strangers from the covenants of promise?

having no hope?

without God in the world?



This should put to rest the Calvinistic thoughts that Jesus only came to save the elect.

Click to expand...

I have not answered the questions because they don’t apply to the text you quoted. Paul’s epistle to the Ephesians was to a Gentile audience. He is explaining to them that in time past they were not considered sons of the Promise but now in Christ that Promise is for Jew and Gentile.

Unless you have an explicit passage or even a verse that unrepentant, rebellious souls in unbelief given to strong delusion have access to the shed Blood of Christ in the New Covenant, unlimited atonement is refuted.

redleghunter said:

I have not answered the questions because they don’t apply to the text you quoted. Paul’s epistle to the Ephesians was to a Gentile audience. He is explaining to them that in time past they were not considered sons of the Promise but now in Christ that Promise is for Jew and Gentile.

Unless you have an explicit passage or even a verse that unrepentant, rebellious souls in unbelief given to strong delusion have access to the shed Blood of Christ in the New Covenant, unlimited atonement is refuted.

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What you fail to realize is that these Gentiles who are NOW in Christ where at one time....... without Christ,aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers from the covenants of promise,having no hope and without God in the world.

So please answer the questions below.

Here is what you have failed to address now for the 7th time.

Eph:2:11-18

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.



Can the elect ever be said to be without Christ?

Be aliens from the commonwealth of Israel?

strangers from the covenants of promise?

having no hope?

without God in the world?



This should put to rest the Calvinistic thoughts that Jesus only came to save the elect.

FineLinen said:

Search "limited"

One entry found.

"YOU have limited the Holy One of Israel."

Click to expand...

Search Scripture

"so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie" (Hebrews 6:18)

Scripture limits the Holy One of Israel because the Holy One cannot logically contradict His own Holy nature.

Pneuma3 said:

amen brother. Calvinism imo smacks of segregation, whereas the salvation of all speaks of the brotherhood of man.

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The salvation of all smacks the Holiness of God it is a mockery of His Holiness and justice, and contradicts His revelation to mankind at every point.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

The salvation of all smacks the Holiness of God it is a mockery of His Holiness and justice, and contradicts His revelation to mankind at every point.

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Adam being a representation of mankind was a son of God, that make ALL HUMANITY Gods offspring.

segregation is a horrible thing to behold, just ask those who were once in segregation if it was just and holy.

well your at it maybe you can answer the questions I posed to red as he/she seems to be having such a hard time doing so.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

The salvation of all smacks the Holiness of God it is a mockery of His Holiness and justice, and contradicts His revelation to mankind at every point.

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Without the law there can be NO justice. The law is a ministration of DEATH, and our schoolmaster that leads us to Christ.

Pneuma3 said:

Adam being a representation of mankind was a son of God, that make ALL HUMANITY Gods offspring.

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Nope. Adam and Eve were specially created by God. The rest of humanity were/are not, the rest of humanity are creations of other humans. First cause and secondary causes.

Pneuma3 said:

segregation is a horrible thing to behold, just ask those who were once in segregation if it was just and holy.

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You might take that up with God, because He introduced segregation of His people from other nations.

Pneuma3 said:

well your at it maybe you can answer the questions I posed to red as he/she seems to be having such a hard time doing so.

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No thanks, I'll pass, no need, no desire, sorry.

redleghunter said:

God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

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It doesn't matter how many bricks are in the row that I push to drop one on your head, I'm still responsible. And cherry picking verses to combine them, and come up with a theology is bad exegesis.

Loren T. said:

It doesn't matter how many bricks are in the row that I push to drop one on your head, I'm still responsible. And cherry picking verses to combine them, and come up with a theology is bad exegesis.

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Let's play name the theologians game. Here is how it works. Name the theologians with whom you essentially agree and examples of their good exegesis. This can at least establish a historical pattern of agreeable exegesis. Lone wolf theology is never a good thing.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

Search Scripture

"so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie" (Hebrews 6:18)

Scripture limits the Holy One of Israel because the Holy One cannot logically contradict His own Holy nature.

Click to expand...

Dear A.W.: The Holy One is not contradicting His Holy nature! There is one passage of Canon using the word "limited", and take a guess who is doing the limiting? It is most certainly not the Unlimited One.

"For as by one man's disobedience polus were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall polus be made righteous."

This equation is equal on both sides: Adam1 & the Last Adam.

The Message

"Have you ever come on anything quite like this extravagant generosity of God, this deep, deep wisdom? It's way over our heads. We'll never figure it out.

Is there anyone around who can explain God?
Anyone smart enough to tell him what to do?
Anyone who has done him such a huge favor
that God has to ask his advice?

Everything comes from him;
Everything happens through him;
Everything ends up in him.
Always glory! Always praise!
Yes. Yes. Yes."

Apologetic_Warrior said:

Let's play name the theologians game. Here is how it works. Name the theologians with whom you essentially agree and examples of their good exegesis. This can at least establish a historical pattern of agreeable exegesis. Lone wolf theology is never a good thing.

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Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, Jude and Paul.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

Nope. Adam and Eve were specially created by God. The rest of humanity were/are not, the rest of humanity are creations of other humans. First cause and secondary causes.

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Hey I never got a notification that you responded to my post, you were probably happy about that until now.

Nonsense. read ro.5

Apologetic_Warrior said:

You might take that up with God, because He introduced segregation of His people from other nations

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So according to you God built a wall that Jesus tore down. ya ok. Jesus always does the opposite of what God wants and destroys the things God set up. Good grief.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

No thanks, I'll pass, no need, no desire, sorry.

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Yup just like i figured. you cut and run just like red did.

These scripture totally undo Calvinism and is the reason no Calvinist has even tried to answer the questions.

What you fail to realize is that these Gentiles who are NOW in Christ where at one time....... without Christ,aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers from the covenants of promise,having no hope and without God in the world.

So please answer the questions below.

Here is what you have failed to address now for the 7th time.

Eph:2:11-18

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.



Can the elect ever be said to be without Christ?

Be aliens from the commonwealth of Israel?

strangers from the covenants of promise?

having no hope?

without God in the world?



This should put to rest the Calvinistic thoughts that Jesus only came to save the elect.