What is "Bible Church" supposed to mean?

ViaCrucis

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I was a bit thrown by that one too. There are a few allusions to non-canonical texts like the Book of Enoch so that rule doesn’t even apply to the Bible itself.

Even more simply than that: The books which make up the Bible were written by real people, to other real people, in real history, and there are real historical circumstances happening that were the occasion for writing in the first place. St. Paul didn't write his letters in a vacuum, he wrote to the various churches out of genuine apostolic and pastoral concern for these communities of Christians, and talks about real situations going on. And ignoring that is a great way to utterly and completely misread the Bible.

Example: Understanding the things Paul is saying to the Corinthian church requires also understanding the general culture of Corinth; why does Paul spend his time writing about the issue of food sacrificed to idols, why does he point out things like prostitution as a problem? Because Corinth was a major cosmopolitan city with a lot of temples, and sacrifices and temple prostitution was a big industry. Because, unlike in some other places, the majority of the Christians in Corinth were former Pagans, and the temptation to continue to participate in the pagan rites was strong; that temptation was strong because unlike today in modern America with a strong separation between religion and state the ancient world blurred the lines between civic responsibility and religion. It was someone's civic duty to sacrifice to the gods to ensure the pax deorum, the peace of the gods; participating in the pagan religious rites was part of the basic fabric of civil life, no different than going to work or taking your kids to soccer practice today. Christians faced cultural pressure to conform to Roman society, and faced backlash and suspicion because they refused to follow the status quo.

That is the backdrop against which Paul wrote, and it is going to be nearly impossible to understand what Paul is trying to say without understanding that Paul was writing to real human beings, living in a real place, with real circumstances.

The Bible is not a magical book of decontextualized esoteric wisdom; it is a collection of writings by real people, rooted in the real world, and it is by our engagement with these that we can gain benefit--to hear and receive God's word as contained in these writings as they point us to the Author and Finisher of our faith, Jesus Christ our Lord--He Himself being the Foundation and Head of the Church, the Chief Cornerstone. The Bible, out of context, removed from history, and apart from Jesus Christ is meaningless.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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RaymondG

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I'm talking about Judging the people of a church by the name...
Oh ok, I thought we were discussing a phrase used to refer to the right church....e.g. "Make sure you find a Bible church" or "Find a Spirit filled church" Never knew it was the actual name of a church.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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This has more to do with identifying with the background of how the text of the Scriptures has been transmitted to us, rather than critical reading of the Bible. Authoritarianism in politics tends to go with authoritarianism in religion. But this particular method of reading the Bible isn't necessarily how Jesus used the Bible:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/pete-enns/3-ways-jesus-read-the-bib_b_5902534.html
Let me give you a little help: beware of enlisting the likes of the Huffington post(!) withits piece by post-evangelical Pete Enns as a teaching aid in Bible interpretation.

Right off the bat, in seeking to support their charge that Jesus did the opposite of “sticking to the text” and not going beyond it, but instead Jesus was "ready and willing to be handled in creative ways, Enns cannot see, but outright denies, that "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" (Mat 22:32; Exodus 3:6) implies their continued existence, in contrast to being the God of biological dust, so that as Christ stated in support of the resurrection, "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

And being their God meant that they would see the fulfilment of the promises made to them, and thus Rabbis themselves enlisted these promises made by their God to the patriarchs Dt. as supporting the resurrection.

As Gill provides , Menasseh ben Israel (was one of the great figures of Sephardic Jew) states on Deuteronomy 34:4,

"for God is not the God of the dead, for the dead are not; but of the living, for the living exist; therefore also the patriarchs, in respect of the soul, may rightly be inferred from hence to live"

And unlike the rendering of Enns who denies that Christ was providing a deeper meaning, but asserts that He used the Bible in creative ways (which would sanction liberals who reduce what the Bible says to always being just a matter of interpretation), some of the scribes did not express that they were "very impressed with Jesus’s ability to" by affirmed His interpretation, replying, "Master, thou hast well said." (Luke 20:39)

Next, Enns' charge that most Christians would dismiss such interpretation, "to try and stick to the text better and if not to start looking for another line of work, is largely a straw man. While mot of those Enns likely defines as "Christian" little have little interest in making sure that their pastors/priests properly interpret Scripture, those who do are typically going to be know, and as classic evangelical commentaries attest, that sound teaching can be understood by deduction and not simply from plain explicit statements. Ask them to show from Scripture why consensual cannibalism (you have me for dinner if i die first) is wrong as a practice.

Thus HP's first attempt to implicitly enlist Christ on the side of liberal "creative ways" opposite of “sticking to the text,” and not going beyond it, simply fails.

Next, Enns imagines that the Lord expanding of the meaning of the Law and abrogation of parts of it is meant that real obedience to God mean[t] it was time to move on," and was contrary to evangelicals believing what the Bible says isn’t like being on a buffet line where you “pick and choose” what you like. Of course, the latter is just what liberals do, as well as to "move on" onto their creative denial of Biblical morality.

However, in further demonstration of their blindness, what Enns fails to see is what evangelicals have well substantiated, that Christ as the Messiah would, for his righteousness’ sake "magnify the law, and make it honourable." (Isaiah 42:21) And that, and that the only "moving on" what not to creative denial of OT Biblical morality, but expanding its teaching to its full intent, which is also taught in the OT (such as adultery of the heart (Proverbs 6:25), and even a restriction of its allowances in the case of divorce, going back to its original intent (in which the Lord defined marriage as btwn male and female).

Evangelicals also recognize that the Lord, , not evangelicals, would institute the promised New Covenant, in which typological ceremonial laws on "meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ," (Colossians 2:16-17) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Hebrews 9:10) But which abrogation meant that Christians were to fulfill their righteous intent, such as separation from unclean vessels corresponding to moral uncleanness.

For rather than abrogation of universal moral laws, fulfilling the righteous intent of universal moral law usually meant keeping the letter of it as well, and the intent of all laws, thus "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:19)

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:4)

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13)

Other Enns charges, that an “eye for an eye” is contradicted by turn the other cheek, ignores that Christ was not countermanding this as a matter of civil jurisprudence (including false witnesses getting the penalty they sought by lying), in which context is where it is found, (Ex 21:22-27; Le 24:19,20; De 19:19) and which power He affirmed as coming from God, and warned of being punished by, but as it was applied to personal vengeance. In which eye for an eye can be seen as a restriction of retribution, which intent the Lord took all the way, consistent with Leviticus 19:18 and the expansion of who thy neighbour is.

As for “Let your word be ‘Yes, Yes or ‘No, no" being contrary to solemn oaths, what is proscribed is swearing by something greater than yourself, akin to using the credit card of someone else, since you lack such.

Thus Enns further attempt to set evangelicals in opposition to Christ, and HPs attempt to implicitly enlist Him as a liberal in which real obedience to God meant "it was time to move on" onto creative modern liberal ethos, is another failure.

Which refutes Enns summation, that Jesus did not agree with things about the Bible that evangelicals take for granted and consider non-negotiable—like “stick to the text” and, “God’s word is eternal and never changes,” for this a strawman, as this is the very Christ whose teaching evangelicals see no problem with (except maybe pacifism).

For “stick to the text” and, “God’s word is eternal and never changes” is not simply defined, at least in scholarly in evangelical exegesis, the way Enns portrays it, otherwise they would have a real problem preaching on what Christ taught week after week.

I do not have the time to further expand on this
 
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redleghunter

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I have no idea why you have singled me out to rabbit on about something that I was not even know what you talking about. Please go away...
My apologies Gordon. I saw that you were Anglican and thought quoting the 39 articles would be a good starting point to discuss the history of "Bible churches."

My intention was not torment, but genuine discussion points.
 
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redleghunter

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And "Bible Christians" presumably means "us and not y'all". Got it. And Catholics most certainly come under the heading of "y'all".
Meaning you see the use of "Bible church" as an attempt of boastful "one up-manship" as opposed to the opposing organization(s) having a realized or perceived relative Biblical deprivation?
 
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thecolorsblend

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All Christians worship but the basis for their forms of worship are not always biblical.
What is a biblical form of worship?

What is a biblical form of worship not?
 
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gideon123

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"Meaning you see the use of "Bible church" as an attempt of boastful "one up-manship" as opposed to the opposing organization(s) having a realized or perceived relative Biblical deprivation?"

I remember going to an outdoors worship service near Yosemite. All denominations were invited. Each person was asked to stand up, say the name of their church, and then their name. It was a simple introduction. A courtesy.

I stood up and said the introduction.

Then the next man stood up, said the name of his church, and added these words ... "and we are a Bible-believing church!". He said it with a lot of pride, and a small amount of contempt as well.

Does this attitude exist out there?
You bet it does.
Does Jesus condone it ... I believe no.

Blessings!!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Ask them as they keep saying/demonstrating/ so (especially in actions and deeds and disobedience and so forth and so on all around the world), perhaps for many different or perhaps for similar reasons.
See for examples various posts/ threads on this forum, and if you're able to , ask them - be cautious though, it may be /(is)/ against the rules in some or most sections.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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"Meaning you see the use of "Bible church" as an attempt of boastful "one up-manship" as opposed to the opposing organization(s) having a realized or perceived relative Biblical deprivation?"

I remember going to an outdoors worship service near Yosemite. All denominations were invited. Each person was asked to stand up, say the name of their church, and then their name. It was a simple introduction. A courtesy.

I stood up and said the introduction.

Then the next man stood up, said the name of his church, and added these words ... "and we are a Bible-believing church!". He said it with a lot of pride, and a small amount of contempt as well.

Does this attitude exist out there?
You bet it does.
Does Jesus condone it ... I believe no.

Blessings!!
The groups that don't believe the Bible always object to and reject the groups or persons that do believe the Bible and who DO what Yahweh says.

It has been the cause of many, many wars and destruction throughout history.
 
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BobRyan

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Don't all churches believe in the Bible and have worship based on them?

Generally speaking I think that is true at least to some extent.

But when church members themselves come out "swinging" against the topics of "Sola Scriptura testing of all doctrine" or "Bible church" - well I guess they are in fact "making a statement".
 
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redleghunter

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Since you base your Faith on the Bible we should look at what the Bible tells us about being Saved. Most of the Jews who where zealous about religion and about Scripture never found God and even killed God and His followers. Saul aka Paul was this kind of Jew, zealous about religion and Scripture. He persecuted Jesus's followers. When Paul was Saved it wasn't by his religion and his Scriptural knowledge, he was Saved by Jesus on the road to Dumascus. The Bible is here to point us to Jesus, not to point to us. Jesus Saves us, not our ability to follow the Scriptures. For additional proof of this point, the men Jesus chose to be His followers were not Jewish scholars, they were fisherman and tax collectors. He chose ordinary people who had no special Scripture knowledge or training. What they had was a relationship with Jesus, not with religion or with Scripture.
I'm still trying to figure out why you are pitting the Holy Spirit inspired Scriptures against salvation. The apostles did not do this. They verbally preached and taught from the Holy Scriptures.
 
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GingerBeer

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What is a biblical form of worship?

What is a biblical form of worship not?
Worship is biblical if it is worship of the one true God.
Worship is not biblical if it is not worship of the one true God.
 
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redleghunter

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Meanwhile, as far as professions go, it is actually Bible Christians, those who have most strongly affirmed the integrity of Scripture, who attest to the greatest degree of unity in common core beliefs [even those commonly held beliefs that Catholics are themselves supposed to agree on] as well as commitment, much in contrast to Catholics.
Excellent research.
 
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GingerBeer

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And the Westboro Baptist Mob stands up and hollers with the best of them that they are a Bible Church.

It is all just self-righteous, sanctimonious noise.
Is it like the speck in another's eye and the plank in one's own?
 
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Love &Forgiveness

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I'm still trying to figure out why you are pitting the Holy Spirit inspired Scriptures against salvation. The apostles did not do this. They verbally preached and taught from the Holy Scriptures.

I am not doing that. I am saying Salvation is by Faith alone.

This is my only response:

Romans 2:12-29 NLT
When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. [13] For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. [14] Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. [15] They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. [16] And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life. [17] You who call yourselves Jews are relying on God’s law, and you boast about your special relationship with him. [18] You know what he wants; you know what is right because you have been taught his law. [19] You are convinced that you are a guide for the blind and a light for people who are lost in darkness. [20] You think you can instruct the ignorant and teach children the ways of God. For you are certain that God’s law gives you complete knowledge and truth. [21] Well then, if you teach others, why don’t you teach yourself? You tell others not to steal, but do you steal? [22] You say it is wrong to commit adultery, but do you commit adultery? You condemn idolatry, but do you use items stolen from pagan temples? [23] You are so proud of knowing the law, but you dishonor God by breaking it. [24] No wonder the Scriptures say, “The Gentiles blaspheme the name of God because of you.” [25] The Jewish ceremony of circumcision has value only if you obey God’s law. But if you don’t obey God’s law, you are no better off than an uncircumcised Gentile. [26] And if the Gentiles obey God’s law, won’t God declare them to be his own people? [27] In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God’s law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God’s law but don’t obey it. [28] For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. [29] No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by the Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.
 
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