DID JESUS REALLY BREAK ANY OF GOD'S LAW?

expos4ever

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I wouldn't be so quick to snip snip against circumcision, I suppose. Instead of me being told to condemn circumcision, I think it is important to understand God is the Judge of the hearts.
But this answer sidesteps the essence of Paul’s argument- that God has dissolved the Jew-Gentile distinction. And circumcision does the opposite.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Colossians 2:16-18
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink,
or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you.
Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen;
they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.

Once again you mix up the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT with God's ETERNAL LAWS. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is?

DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE. CLICK ME. (PARTS 1-6)

Hope this helps.
 
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expos4ever

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The law is a singular thing. You can't say we are not under part of the law. It's all or nothing.
Agree. Paul repeatedly refers to “the Law” without drawing any distinctions within it.
 
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Saint Steven

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But this answer sidesteps the essence of Paul’s argument- that God has dissolved the Jew-Gentile distinction. And circumcision does the opposite.
It's not really about circumcision is it? Circumcision is sometimes used as a reference to Judaism and also to Judaizers.
 
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expos4ever

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Paul disagrees with you.
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. Romans 5:19
The strength of sin is the law. 1 Corinthians 15:56
Are you a fellow fan of NT Wright; he is very big on the idea that the Law empowers sin.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Agree. Paul repeatedly refers to “the Law” without drawing any distinctions within it.

Not really expos4ever, it is the within scripture and chapter context that draws the distinctions. For example read ROMANS 13:8-10. Paul would disagree with you.
 
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Saint Steven

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Are you a fellow fan of NT Wright; he is very big on the idea that the Law empowers sin.
I tend to agree.

Romans 7:8
But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The old covenant is the condemnation of law. Please don't tell us that this has been written on our hearts and then call it the new covenant.

Not really Steve,

God's LAW plays the same role it always has and that is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTOUENESS (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; Psalms 119:172).

The NEW COVENANT PROMISE is God's LAW written on the heart to LOVE and it is LOVE the fulfills (obeys) God's LAW (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10) On these two great commandments of LOVE Jesus says hang all the LAW and the prophets and is whay Jesus says; IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENT. It is only thought FAITH that works by LOVE that anyone can follow him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD :wave:
 
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expos4ever

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Not really expos4ever, it is the within scripture and chapter context that draws the distinctions. For example read ROMANS 13:8-10. Paul would disagree with you.
In that text, Paul simply refers to particular elements of the Law; this is in no way justifies concluding that some parts of the law are any "better", or eternal, than others.
 
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Kaon

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Hi all,

Some teach that Jesus broke God's Commandments (e.g. the SABBATH). IF Jesus Broke the SABBATH which is the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) according to scripture this would make Jesus a sinner.

1 JOHN 3:4 Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

If Jesus broke God's Commandments he would then be a sinner. If Jesus broke God's LAW and was a sinner then how could he be our perfect sacrifice and the lamb of God that takes away all the sins of the World if he has his own sins to bare?

For me I believe God's WORD teaches Jesus did not break any of God's LAWS that is why he is able to take our sins on himself to offer us his righteousness to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. Jesus did not come to abolish God's LAW but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17-18).

.............

DID JESUS REALLY BRAKE GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT (SABBATH) OR THE PHARASEES INTERPRETATION OF IT?

In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2; Luke 6:1-2).

Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matt 12:12)

The difference in what Jesus was teaching and what the Jews taight is that Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath. It is our own WORK that we are commanded not to do (Exodus 20:8-11)

A few other OLD TESTAMENT references from Jesus in relation to doing good in the Sabbath..

Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

Exodus 20
8,
Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.

God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK.

Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.

Jesus never broke any of his own Commandments especially the Sabbath which he created. This is what Jesus taught about the Sabbath in the NEW TESTAMENT.

.................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP another day as a Holy day.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS....? :)

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word :wave:

The Redeemer did not break any of the Most High God's Laws. He properly followed the Sabbath as it was meant for Son of Man, formerly sons of God.

His accusers were carnal - they just so happened to follow written rules well. That said nothing about their spiritual understanding.

No law of the Most High God is null, or void, and the Redeemer never broke any of them.
 
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Doug Melven

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Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

God's eternal law is not the 10 Commandments or the 2 great, because neither could give life.

Psalms 19:7 says the law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul.
This explains it better than I can.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
The law of the Lord is perfect,.... By which is meant, not the law of Moses, or the ten commandments, but the "doctrine" of the Lord; as the word "torah", signifies, even the whole word of God, as in Isaiah 8:20. All the Scriptures of truth, which are profitable for doctrine; for setting doctrine in a clear light, and for the vindication and establishment of it, and are the rule of doctrine both to preachers and hearers; and which are "perfect", contain the whole mind and will of God, both with respect to faith and practice; whereby the man of God is made perfect, and thoroughly furnished to all good works, 2 Timothy 3:16; and especially the Gospel part of the word of God may be designed, which both in the Old and New Testament is called "a law" or "doctrine", being eminently so; the doctrine of the Messiah, and of justification by faith in his righteousness, Isaiah 2:3, Romans 3:27. The Gospel is a perfect plan and scheme of spiritual and saving truths: it gives an account of perfect things; as of the perfect righteousness of Christ, and complete justification by it; of the full as well as free pardon of sins by the blood of Christ; and of redemption and salvation from all sin and evils by him: and it also shows where true perfection is; namely, in Christ, in whom the saints are complete, be being made to them wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption; see James 1:25. This character, therefore, suits better with the Gospel than with the moral law; though that, as it is to be gathered out of the whole word of God, contains the good and perfect will of God, with respect to what is to be done or avoided; nor is anything to be added to it; nor did our Lord come to add unto it, or to make it more perfect, but to fulfil it, which men could not do; nor could the law make any man or anything perfect, either perfectly sanctify, or justify, or save; whereas the bringing in of the better hope in the Gospel does, Hebrews 9:7. The effect, under a divine influence and blessing ascribed to it, is,

converting the soul; which is a further proof that the law of Moses is not intended: for though by it is the knowledge of sin, or conviction of sin, which often falls short of conversion; yet the Spirit of God, as a spirit of regeneration, conversion, and sanctification, is not received through the doctrine or preaching of the law, but through the ministration of the Gospel; which is designed to turn men from darkness to light, and from the powers of Satan to God; and which use it has when it is attended with the demonstration of the Spirit and of power; see Romans 3:20, though the words may be rendered "relieving", that is, refreshing and comforting the "soul" (z) as in Lamentations 1:11; Through want of bodily food, which is the case in the passage retorted to, the spirits faint and sink, the soul is almost gone, when, by the ministration of proper food, it is as it were brought back again, as the word (a) here used signifies, and the animal spirits are cheered and revived: and of like use is the Gospel; it is the food of the soul, by which it is refreshed and exhilarated, when ready to sink and faint away; hereby it is restored and revived, comforted and nourished;

the testimony of the Lord is sure; this is another name for the word of God, or the Holy Scriptures; so called because they testify of Christ, of his person, office, and grace; of what he is, was to do, and suffer, and perform for his people, and of his glory that should follow thereon, John 5:39; and particularly the doctrine of the Gospel is the testimony of our Lord Jesus Christ, both which he himself testified, and which is a testimony concerning him, 2 Timothy 1:8. And this is "sure", or "to be believed" (b); the whole of Scripture is true, coming from the God of truth; having for its principal subject Christ, who is truth itself, and being dictated by the Spirit of truth; and particularly the Gospel part of it, and all the truths therein contained, especially the doctrine of salvation by Christ, which is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation: the Gospel is a testimony of record which God himself has bore concerning his Son, and eternal life by him, and therefore sure and to be depended upon; for if the witness of men is received, the witness of God is greater, 1 John 5:9. The effect ascribed to the word of God, Or to the Gospel under this character, is,

making wise the simple. The Septuagint, Vulgate Latin, Syriac, Arabic, and Ethiopic versions, render it "babes" or "children"; and so Apollinarius; and the word here used in the Arabic language, is said to (c) signify such; and here it intends babes and children not in years, but in understanding, to whom God is pleased to reveal the truths of his Gospel, when he hides them from the wise and prudent: these simple ones are such who are sensible of their simplicity and folly, and of their want of understanding; who, with Agur, think themselves more foolish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man; and these, by the word of God, are made wise to know themselves, their folly, sinfulness, imperfections, and impotence; and are made wise unto salvation, to know the right way of salvation by Christ; see 2 Timothy 3:15; where the same phrase is used as here, and seems to be borrowed from hence, and is used of the Scriptures; which also make men wise in the knowledge of Gospel doctrines, the wisdom of God in a mystery, which to know is the greatest wisdom and understanding, and much more so than to be acquainted with the law only, Deuteronomy 4:6.
 
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Saint Steven

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The Redeemer did not break any of the Most High God's Laws. He properly followed the Sabbath as it was meant for Son of Man, formerly sons of God.

His accusers were carnal - they just so happened to follow written rules well. That said nothing about their spiritual understanding.

No law of the Most High God is null, or void, and the Redeemer never broke any of them.
Do you wear tassels? Or sacrifice a ram?
 
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Kaon

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Do you wear tassels? Or sacrifice a ram?

Who made tassels part of the Law of the Most High God? When did He state this as a commandment?

As far as sacrifice, sure you can do it (the Law will be renewed at the first resurrection since the saints will judge), but if you are doing it now, it is a vain oblation given Christ. And, we know how the Most High feels about vain oblations. Isaiah 1:13
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. It was the means God used to make one a physical Jew/Hebrew and physical member of Israel. The only biblical Israel today is Christ and the Church.

LOL, YOU just said, "ONLY the 10 Commandments were abolished"!! Logically, that implies that YOU believe all the others are still in effect. Make up your mind! You sound VERY confused...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Abrahamic covenant?

Genesis 15

So the Lord said to him, “Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.” Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other. When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

God's eternal law is not the 10 Commandments or the 2 great, because neither could give life.

Psalms 19:7 says the law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul.
This explains it better than I can.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
The law of the Lord is perfect,.... By which is meant, not the law of Moses, or the ten commandments, but the "doctrine" of the Lord; as the word "torah", signifies, even the whole word of God, as in Isaiah 8:20. All the Scriptures of truth, which are profitable for doctrine; for setting doctrine in a clear light, and for the vindication and establishment of it, and are the rule of doctrine both to preachers and hearers; and which are "perfect", contain the whole mind and will of God, both with respect to faith and practice; whereby the man of God is made perfect, and thoroughly furnished to all good works, 2 Timothy 3:16; and especially the Gospel part of the word of God may be designed, which both in the Old and New Testament is called "a law" or "doctrine", being eminently so; the doctrine of the Messiah, and of justification by faith in his righteousness, Isaiah 2:3, Romans 3:27. The Gospel is a perfect plan and scheme of spiritual and saving truths: it gives an account of perfect things; as of the perfect righteousness of Christ, and complete justification by it; of the full as well as free pardon of sins by the blood of Christ; and of redemption and salvation from all sin and evils by him: and it also shows where true perfection is; namely, in Christ, in whom the saints are complete, be being made to them wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption; see James 1:25. This character, therefore, suits better with the Gospel than with the moral law; though that, as it is to be gathered out of the whole word of God, contains the good and perfect will of God, with respect to what is to be done or avoided; nor is anything to be added to it; nor did our Lord come to add unto it, or to make it more perfect, but to fulfil it, which men could not do; nor could the law make any man or anything perfect, either perfectly sanctify, or justify, or save; whereas the bringing in of the better hope in the Gospel does, Hebrews 9:7. The effect, under a divine influence and blessing ascribed to it, is,

converting the soul; which is a further proof that the law of Moses is not intended: for though by it is the knowledge of sin, or conviction of sin, which often falls short of conversion; yet the Spirit of God, as a spirit of regeneration, conversion, and sanctification, is not received through the doctrine or preaching of the law, but through the ministration of the Gospel; which is designed to turn men from darkness to light, and from the powers of Satan to God; and which use it has when it is attended with the demonstration of the Spirit and of power; see Romans 3:20, though the words may be rendered "relieving", that is, refreshing and comforting the "soul" (z) as in Lamentations 1:11; Through want of bodily food, which is the case in the passage retorted to, the spirits faint and sink, the soul is almost gone, when, by the ministration of proper food, it is as it were brought back again, as the word (a) here used signifies, and the animal spirits are cheered and revived: and of like use is the Gospel; it is the food of the soul, by which it is refreshed and exhilarated, when ready to sink and faint away; hereby it is restored and revived, comforted and nourished;

the testimony of the Lord is sure; this is another name for the word of God, or the Holy Scriptures; so called because they testify of Christ, of his person, office, and grace; of what he is, was to do, and suffer, and perform for his people, and of his glory that should follow thereon, John 5:39; and particularly the doctrine of the Gospel is the testimony of our Lord Jesus Christ, both which he himself testified, and which is a testimony concerning him, 2 Timothy 1:8. And this is "sure", or "to be believed" (b); the whole of Scripture is true, coming from the God of truth; having for its principal subject Christ, who is truth itself, and being dictated by the Spirit of truth; and particularly the Gospel part of it, and all the truths therein contained, especially the doctrine of salvation by Christ, which is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation: the Gospel is a testimony of record which God himself has bore concerning his Son, and eternal life by him, and therefore sure and to be depended upon; for if the witness of men is received, the witness of God is greater, 1 John 5:9. The effect ascribed to the word of God, Or to the Gospel under this character, is,

making wise the simple. The Septuagint, Vulgate Latin, Syriac, Arabic, and Ethiopic versions, render it "babes" or "children"; and so Apollinarius; and the word here used in the Arabic language, is said to (c) signify such; and here it intends babes and children not in years, but in understanding, to whom God is pleased to reveal the truths of his Gospel, when he hides them from the wise and prudent: these simple ones are such who are sensible of their simplicity and folly, and of their want of understanding; who, with Agur, think themselves more foolish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man; and these, by the word of God, are made wise to know themselves, their folly, sinfulness, imperfections, and impotence; and are made wise unto salvation, to know the right way of salvation by Christ; see 2 Timothy 3:15; where the same phrase is used as here, and seems to be borrowed from hence, and is used of the Scriptures; which also make men wise in the knowledge of Gospel doctrines, the wisdom of God in a mystery, which to know is the greatest wisdom and understanding, and much more so than to be acquainted with the law only, Deuteronomy 4:6.

Hello Doug,

You should not trust too much in commentaries as there is so many different interpretations between them. They are only another mans interpretation of God's WORD when the new COVENANT promise is that God wants to be your teacher (Hebrews 8:11; John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17: 8:32).

Of course God's ETERNAL LAW is the 10 Commandments.

The commentary you posted is talking about the torah which includes both the laws of Moses and the 10 Commandments. What the commantary is saying is that the law is more then just the law of Moses or the 10 commandments it is all the Words of GOD in the OLD TESTAMENT it is all the teachings of God this includes both God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the laws of Moses and all the Word of God. The within scripture and chapter CONTEST however determine a direct application to the 10 commandments, the MOSIAC shadow laws or something else.

The scripture you posted....

PSALM 19:7 [7] The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

The law of the LORD
תורת יהוה תמימה signifies the law that the Lord owns

law
תמימה means tôrâh, to-raw a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue [10 Commandments] or Pentateuch:—law.

The scriputre context here is clearly talking about God's LAW (10 Commandments) as the context here is God's LAW is perfect converting the soul. God's LAW gives us a knowledge of what sin is if broken and the wages of sin is death for those who reject the gift of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Romans 7:7). This is what God's WORD torah teaches.

.............

Pulpit Commentary


The Law of the Lord is perfect. Whatsoever proceeds from God is perfect in its kind; his "Law" especially - the rule of life to his rational creatures. That salvation is not by the Law is not the fault of the Law, but of man, who cannot keep it. "The Law" itself "is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" (Romans 7:12). Converting (rather, as in the margin, restoring) the soul. The word employed, meshibah, is used of restoring from disorder and decay (Psalm 80:19), from sorrow and affliction (Ruth 4:15), from death (1 Kings 17:21, 22). The Law, by instructing men, restores them from moral blindness to the light which is theirs by nature (Romans 1:19), and, as a further consequence, in many cases, restores them from sin to righteousness. The testimony of the Lord is sure. 'Eduth - the word translated "testimony" - is employed especially of the Decalogue (Exodus 25:16, 21, 22, 26; Numbers 9:15; 17:23; 18:2, etc.); but may be regarded as sue of the many synonyms under which the whole Law may be spoken of (see Psalm 119:2, 14, 22, 24, 88, etc.). The Law is "sure" - i.e. fixed, firm, stable - in comparison with the fleeting, shifting, unstable judgments of human reason. Making wise the simple; i.e. enlightening their moral judgment.

God's WORD is indeed eternal as is the 10 Commandments.

Don't trust in the words if men seek God for it in prayer and study God's WORD for yourself.

Thanks for sharing. :wave:
 
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Who made tassels part of the Law of the Most High God? When did He state this as a commandment?

As far as sacrifice, sure you can do it (the Law will be renewed at the first resurrection since the saints will judge), but if you are doing it now, it is a vain oblation given Christ. And, we know how the Most High feels about vain oblations. Isaiah 1:13
Hmm...??? You said, "No law of the Most High God is null, or void..." Did you misspeak?

Numbers 15:37-39
The Lord said to Moses,
38 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them:
‘Throughout the generations to come you are to
make tassels on the corners of your garments,
with a blue cord on each tassel.
39 You will have these tassels to look at and
so you will remember all the commands of the Lord,
that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves
by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes.
 
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Genesis 15

So the Lord said to him, “Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.” Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other. When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram.
That only confirmed God's promise. It was not the covenant.
 
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