Seeker Friendly Progressive Churches

Albion · Jul 11, 2018

Unfortunately, taking the approach that everyone can decide for himself what to make of scripture so long as he mentions the Holy Spirit in the process only works to it verify the notion that everybody is on his own to decide on the meaning of Scripture. Fortunately, not many churches agree with that view.

Kevin Snow · Jul 11, 2018

Albion said:
Unfortunately, taking the approach that everyone can decide for himself what to make of scripture so long as he mentions the Holy Spirit in the process only works to it verify the notion that everybody is on his own to decide on the meaning of Scripture. Fortunately, not many churches agree with that view.

But isn't this the very fundamental nature of the difference between those who believe the truth and those who don't? Ultimately, the ones who see, see and the ones who are blind do not. Both claim to see but it is those who do actually see that are telling the truth. And so it is a closed society. The people who in fact see also see those who are blind but the blind ultimately can't tell who is who.

Drought of the Heart · Jul 11, 2018

It is the church that falls away in end days ,so to find one that is not itching ears and speaks truth is a true gem. Best Wishes and that Pastor is correct on what is about to happen of not being able to speak about hell or sodom...

woobadooba · Jul 11, 2018

Seeker friendly Church leaders won't admit this, but church (brick and mortar kind) is a business. Members are consumers. Seeker friendly Church leaders keep Bible teaching shallow enough for people not to get offended and worship services entertaining enough for people to stay awake and want to come back for more. The more consumers they have, the more money rolls in to make these seeker friendly Church leaders wealthy. It's not about giving what God wants, but about giving the people what feels good to them and agrees with their self-centered thoughts.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV) "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NKJV) "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."

Dan1988 · Jul 11, 2018

2PhiloVoid said:
So, how do you guarantee that you understand the Bible fully, clearly and accurately? Do you have a hermeneutical method you'd like to share with the rest of us?

Yes, I actually do have a good method I'd like to share. The best method I believe, is the one that the Holy Spirit gives you when you pray before you study a particular portion of scripture.

The more I study the scriptures the more I realize how little I actually know and understand. There's just too much in the Bible for a person to deal with in one life time. All we can do is keep studying and praying that the Holy Spirit gives us understanding.

It's interesting to note that we don't need to know a single verse of scripture to be saved, Jesus said He would save as many as believe in Him.
Millions have been saved, never having a chance to study the Bible. All they did was believe in Him, even the thief on the cross was saved at the last moments of his life. He never had a chance to study either.

I'm not saying it's not important, because it is very important to learn about God by studying His Word. I'm just saying that it's not what saves a person, simple faith in Jesus saves a person.

JoeP222w · Jul 11, 2018

Halbhh said:
We should welcome the sinners into our churches, because a church is for so many like a hospital, a place to come to get saving medicine. Welcome sinners, come and hear! Bring the liberals, and the conservatives, one and all, and bring them to hear the saving good news.

Yes, welcome sinners, but also do what Jesus did, call them to repentance of their sin and to faith in Christ. The Biblical church does not promote, condone or celebrate sin, no matter what that sin is. The Biblical church calls people to repent of their sins, not continue in them.

Halbhh · Jul 11, 2018

JoeP222w said:
Yes, welcome sinners, but also do what Jesus did, call them to repentance of their sin and to faith in Christ. The Biblical church does not promote, condone or celebrate sin, no matter what that sin is. The Biblical church calls people to repent of their sins, not continue in them.

That's right. But the first message is always the Good News, that which actually can save them! It's never us that saves anyone. Our pointing out sins can't save anyone, even while it helps some of the already-converted. But Christ can save, and only Christ, and only through Christ can anyone grow more mature as a Christian.

I mean that sometimes we overestimate the importance of our own preaching! It's the Word of Christ that is the value, the saving seed. We are only spreading the seed that saves, but we ourselves are not the seed, nor the Judge (Mark chapter 4). We can't control others. We can't save them by judging them. We rely on Christ to save them. He does the work.

Another answer above helped point out how it's necessary that in the Sunday morning service much milk is offered, because of the non believers that are present, and those just now being converted.

Albion · Jul 11, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
But isn't this the very fundamental nature of the difference between those who believe the truth and those who don't?

Well, non-Christians aren't likely to care one way or the other, but we have Scripture as our guide and we have it in written form in human language, so the idea that the Holy Spirit simply grants different brainstorms or personal revelations to different people is a mistake IMHO.

As we often see here, this leads to people coming up with the weirdest theories about what some verses have to tell us, and they are impervious to any information about the meaning of expressions in the original language or what something that is a bit confusing might mean...since they have the independent guidance of the Holy Spirit, they say. And the fact that the HS failed to tell everyone else that same interpretation doesn't seem to give them any pause.

Southernscotty · Jul 11, 2018

coffee machines Easy now, You are getting close to home here. lol
The doors must be opened to all, Come as you are, But do not leave the same way!!

Is 52:7 How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news, who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, "Your God reigns!"

Kevin Snow · Jul 11, 2018

Albion said:
Well, non-Christians aren't likely to care one way or the other, but we have Scripture as our guide and we have it in written form in human language, so the idea that the Holy Spirit simply grants different brainstorms or personal revelations to different people is a mistake IMHO.

As we often see here, this leads to people coming up with the weirdest theories about what some verses have to tell us, and they are impervious to any information about the meaning of expressions in the original language or what something that is a bit confusing might mean...since they have the independent guidance of the Holy Spirit, they say. And the fact that the HS failed to tell everyone else that same interpretation doesn't seem to give them any pause.

Ok but would any of this have happened any other way? We are all in process and some have processed more than others. Just like Paul said,

Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. Only let us hold true to what we have attained. ~Philippians 3:15-16

So the hope is that as we are all independently being led by God that we would all eventually come to the same conclusion. Ultimately the reason we can't see this happening is for the obfuscation of those who are not truly genuine in their pursuit.

Southernscotty · Jul 11, 2018

I allow anyone in that is willing to sit through it and hear the gospel preached. I have had some get offended and get up and leave too. But that is ok, Because they heard the gospel preached and hopefully a seed was planted.
I will tell you if it is a sin. Hands down, However I will love you through it and pray for ya. It is my job to do this, Not judge ya

Albion · Jul 11, 2018

Kevin, there is a fine line to be drawn with this. The HS does lead the church into all truth, and we believe that he is with the individual believer. But when the claim is made that all you have to do is listen to the HS and he will tell you what every verse in the Bible means...or worse, that the Bible isn't as meaningful as your own insights--attributed to the HS of course--that is going too far.

Phil 1:21 · Jul 11, 2018

Dan1988 said:
A friend of mine challenged me to consider joining him on a mission to find a Church where they preach the Bible faithfully.

We were both attending a Catholic Church, before we decided that the teaching was not Biblical in many ways. I won't go into all the errors we found, as it would take too long to list them and to add all the supporting scriptures.

I wanted to discuss the modern Churches and the direction in which they are heading. We visited many churches and usually came home disappointed with the preaching and our ears ringing from the loud armature Church rock bands.

We found most of them were trying to give the congregation what they wanted, such as good music, expensive coffee machines, comfortable seats and very friendly people.

While they were very friendly and provided entertainment, they failed to preach the whole Gospel. The vast majority only preached the parts of Gospel which speak of Gods love, mercy and prosperity. They never mentioned sin or judgement.

We asked some of the pastors why they didn't preach the whole counsel of God and we got a lot of interesting responses, ranging from. "That old fashioned fire and brimstone preaching wouldn't go down well in this town", to "we feed them milk at first and then slowly introduce meat", but the truth is they always stick with milk.

I know the world has changed, we have a lot of gay people in the Churches and many new age types, who like to add human wisdom and science to the Bible and create a kind of man made gospel that everyone can accept and relate to.

Thank the Lord, we eventually found a faithful Bible based Church where the whole counsel of God is preached.

The pastor mentioned in his sermon on Sunday, that we should prepare for persecution and soon he won't be allowed to legally preach about Biblical things like the sin of Sodomy and abortion.

The faithful Churches will be forced to stop preaching about sin, because it offends people. The liberals will impose their world view on Churches and stop them from preaching the whole counsel of God.

The future looks bleak for the Church, we might have to go underground soon.

I suspect part of the problem is a lot of people want Jesus as their Savior, but not as their Lord.

Dan1988 · Jul 11, 2018

woobadooba said:
Seeker friendly Church leaders won't admit this, but church (brick and mortar kind) is a business. Members are consumers. Seeker friendly Church leaders keep Bible teaching shallow enough for people not to get offended and worship services entertaining enough for people to stay awake and want to come back for more. The more consumers they have, the more money rolls in to make these seeker friendly Church leaders wealthy. It's not about giving what God wants, but about giving the people what feels good to them and agrees with their self-centered thoughts.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV) "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NKJV) "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."

You've summed it up really well, it's sad to see so many Christians being led by false prophets. I spoke to my pastor about all of these modern Churches, he believes it's Gods judgement upon rebellious people.

He also quoted 2 Timothy 4:3-4 saying that God has given them over to fables.
When God leaves a person in their sin, they are sure to eventually descend into the depths of depravity and ultimately end up in hell.

WorshipArtViolin · Jul 11, 2018

Even as persecution comes, remember the words of Paul in 2 Corinthians 6:3-10 and stand up with courage and stare down the hardships and more encouragement from 1 Corinthians 15:56-58.
God will never leave His children

Dan1988 said:
A friend of mine challenged me to consider joining him on a mission to find a Church where they preach the Bible faithfully.

We were both attending a Catholic Church, before we decided that the teaching was not Biblical in many ways. I won't go into all the errors we found, as it would take too long to list them and to add all the supporting scriptures.

I wanted to discuss the modern Churches and the direction in which they are heading. We visited many churches and usually came home disappointed with the preaching and our ears ringing from the loud armature Church rock bands.

We found most of them were trying to give the congregation what they wanted, such as good music, expensive coffee machines, comfortable seats and very friendly people.

While they were very friendly and provided entertainment, they failed to preach the whole Gospel. The vast majority only preached the parts of Gospel which speak of Gods love, mercy and prosperity. They never mentioned sin or judgement.

We asked some of the pastors why they didn't preach the whole counsel of God and we got a lot of interesting responses, ranging from. "That old fashioned fire and brimstone preaching wouldn't go down well in this town", to "we feed them milk at first and then slowly introduce meat", but the truth is they always stick with milk.

I know the world has changed, we have a lot of gay people in the Churches and many new age types, who like to add human wisdom and science to the Bible and create a kind of man made gospel that everyone can accept and relate to.

Thank the Lord, we eventually found a faithful Bible based Church where the whole counsel of God is preached.

The pastor mentioned in his sermon on Sunday, that we should prepare for persecution and soon he won't be allowed to legally preach about Biblical things like the sin of Sodomy and abortion.

The faithful Churches will be forced to stop preaching about sin, because it offends people. The liberals will impose their world view on Churches and stop them from preaching the whole counsel of God.

The future looks bleak for the Church, we might have to go underground soon.

Dan1988 · Jul 11, 2018

WorshipArtViolin said:
Even as persecution comes, remember the words of Paul in 2 Corinthians 6:3-10 and stand up with courage and stare down the hardships and more encouragement from 1 Corinthians 15:56-58.
God will never leave His children

Our pastor told us that we need to be prepared to suffer persecution and even death.

He read many scriptures about all of those who were martyred for their faith, it was very sobering to consider how many lost their lives for their faith in Christ.

Christ said we would suffer persecution for His names sake, He didn't say we might. But we have His promise of eternal life in paradise, so that is enough to help us endure whatever comes our way.

Dorothy Mae · Jul 11, 2018

Dan1988 said:
A friend of mine challenged me to consider joining him on a mission to find a Church where they preach the Bible faithfully.

We were both attending a Catholic Church, before we decided that the teaching was not Biblical in many ways. I won't go into all the errors we found, as it would take too long to list them and to add all the supporting scriptures.

I wanted to discuss the modern Churches and the direction in which they are heading. We visited many churches and usually came home disappointed with the preaching and our ears ringing from the loud armature Church rock bands.

We found most of them were trying to give the congregation what they wanted, such as good music, expensive coffee machines, comfortable seats and very friendly people.

While they were very friendly and provided entertainment, they failed to preach the whole Gospel. The vast majority only preached the parts of Gospel which speak of Gods love, mercy and prosperity. They never mentioned sin or judgement.

We asked some of the pastors why they didn't preach the whole counsel of God and we got a lot of interesting responses, ranging from. "That old fashioned fire and brimstone preaching wouldn't go down well in this town", to "we feed them milk at first and then slowly introduce meat", but the truth is they always stick with milk.

I know the world has changed, we have a lot of gay people in the Churches and many new age types, who like to add human wisdom and science to the Bible and create a kind of man made gospel that everyone can accept and relate to.

Thank the Lord, we eventually found a faithful Bible based Church where the whole counsel of God is preached.

The pastor mentioned in his sermon on Sunday, that we should prepare for persecution and soon he won't be allowed to legally preach about Biblical things like the sin of Sodomy and abortion.

The faithful Churches will be forced to stop preaching about sin, because it offends people. The liberals will impose their world view on Churches and stop them from preaching the whole counsel of God.

The future looks bleak for the Church, we might have to go underground soon.

It might be that Anglo-American countries making preaching against sin illegal. Young believers I’d recommend learning a second language so moving to a free nation is possible.

For those who can’t, home churches might be the answer. Atheists who are militant have christians in the crosshairs. Other faiths are OK though so it’s not religion per se. Christians in communist and muslim nations have done this for decades.

Dan1988 · Jul 11, 2018

Albion said:
Unfortunately, taking the approach that everyone can decide for himself what to make of scripture so long as he mentions the Holy Spirit in the process only works to it verify the notion that everybody is on his own to decide on the meaning of Scripture. Fortunately, not many churches agree with that view.

The Bible tells us that the Word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing, and Spiritual things can only be discerned by those who have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

Our pastor told us that God only gives the gift of the Holy Spirit, to His elect so the Bible cannot be correctly understood by those who are not Gods elect.

discipler7 · Jul 11, 2018

Dan1988 said:
Thank the Lord, we eventually found a faithful Bible based Church where the whole counsel of God is preached.

So, you found a good old Baptist Church.? If so, good for you and God bless.

Dan1988 · Jul 11, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
It might be that Anglo-American countries making preaching against sin illegal. Young believers I’d recommend learning a second language so moving to a free nation is possible.

For those who can’t, home churches might be the answer. Atheists who are militant have christians in the crosshairs. Other faiths are OK though so it’s not religion per se. Christians in communist and muslim nations have done this for decades.

Christians are being persecuted and slaughtered in large numbers, in the Middle East and in some African countries.
Our Church supports Christians in these countries, and we get a news letter from them regularly. We hear some really horrific stories from our brethren in these countries and we pray for them every week.
I think the whole world is against Christians, even my family is estranged from me since I converted from Catholicism.

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