3 1/2 years...

keras said:

but you always want to go back to denial of what God will use on His Day of wrath against the nations. Isaiah 66:15-16,

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This is referring to the Coming of the Lord to execute His judgement.
Isaiah 66:15-16
For, behold, Jehovah will COME with fire, and his chariots shall be like the whirlwind; to render his anger with fierceness, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire will Jehovah execute judgment, and by his SWORD, upon all flesh; and the slain of Jehovah shall be many.

Let see what this is talking about
Revelation 19
11 And I saw the heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon called Faithful and True; and in righteous he doth judge and make war.

12 And his eyes [are] a flame of fire, and upon his head [are] many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself.

13 And he [is] arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white [and] pure.
--
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought the signs in his sight, wherewith he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshipped his image: they two were cast alive into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone:
21...and the rest were killed with the SWORD of him that sat upon the horse, [even the SWORD] which came forth out of his mouth: and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

The SWORD which came forth out of his mouth ---- is Hi(S) WORD-- (SWORD).

Riberra said:

This is referring to the Coming of the Lord to execute His judgement.
Isaiah 66:15-16
For, behold, Jehovah will COME with fire, and his chariots shall be like the whirlwind; to render his anger with fierceness, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire will Jehovah execute judgment, and by his SWORD, upon all flesh; and the slain of Jehovah shall be many.

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But we know from several other prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, that He will not be seen on that Day. Amos 1 says: I will send fire..... Psalms 18:11 says: He made darkness His covering..... Habakkuk 3:4 says: His might is veiled.... And Psalms 11:4-6 says: The Lord is in His holy Temple, on His Throne in heaven.....
All on the Day of vengeance and wrath, years before the glorious Return.

Douggg said:

Keras, how does it prove the citizens of the land of Israel are Christians before Gog/Magog.... if they don't know Jesus is the LORD, until after Gog/Magog

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But plainly they DO. What this prophecy is talking about is, how the Lord will show His care for them by how He blesses them.

There can be no argument as to who it will be that does inherit all of the holy Land: it is those whom Jesus came to save: the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Matthew 15:24 They are the people descended from the 10 tribes that were taken into exile by the Assyrians and have lost the knowledge of their ancestry. Paul talks about this secret of God in Ephesians 3:1-6, where he refers to them as Gentiles. i.e. non Jews.
The Apostles and Josephus knew where they were. Of course the Jews knew about their kin, as we see in John 7:35 and their Rabbis still speculate as to when the tribes will rejoin.

The remnant of Judah, the Messianic Jews, will rejoin with their Christian brothers at the great spiritual regeneration described in Ezekiel 37, Romans 9:24-26

Galatians 3:14 God’s purpose in all of this, is so that the Blessings of Abraham should be extended to the Gentiles, so that we can all receive the Spirit through faith.

Ezekiel 11:15-20 The whole people of Israel [the 10 tribes] to whom Judah [the Jews] have said: The Land is now ours to possess. The Lord says: When I sent Israel far away around the world, for a while I was their protector and blessed them wherever they lived. I shall gather My people from their dispersion and give the Land of Israel to them. I will remove their hearts of stone and put a new spirit in them. They will be My people and I will be their God.

This prophecy says how the Jews believe the holy Land is their possession. But the Lord will give it to His faithful Christian people, the peoples who have been blessed with prosperity and strength. They will be joined by born again Christians from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 56:1-8, Revelation 5:9-10

This will happen soon after the forthcoming Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath:
Ezekiel 20:34 By My outpoured wrath, I shall bring you out from the nations and gather you from wherever you are dispersed.

Isaiah 41:8-10 Have no fear, My people - the descendants of My friend, Abraham. Galatians 3:29 I have not rejected you, now I summon you from the four corners of the earth; I am with you and will give you strength.

But not all of those whom God knows are actual Israelites, Amos 9:9, will be allowed to enter the holy Land:
Ezekiel 20:35-38 I shall bring you out of the nations and I shall state My case against you. I shall make you pass under the Rod of Judgement. Just as I did in the wilderness of Egypt, so I shall indict you. I will count you as you enter, but those who revolt and rebel, I shall take them from the lands where they now live, but they will not set foot in the holy Land. Thus you will know I am the Lord.
These are plainly stated prophesies, not yet fulfilled, but surely will be.

keras said:

But plainly they DO.

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But plainly they DON"T. Use the text of Ezekiel 39 to prove that they do, at the time Gog/Magog attacks.

Douggg said:

But plainly they DON"T. Use the text of Ezekiel 39 to prove that they do, at the time Gog/Magog attacks.

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I have shown that the version you use adds words to scripture.
And I have posted proofs of how the Christians will occupy all the holy Land. God will destroy the G/M attack in order to display His power to them and to the nations. Ezekiel 38:23
They are the people seen by John in Revelation 7:9 and no amount of bluff and bluster to suit the false rapture theory, that they are in heaven, changes the Bible truth of them being in the holy Land. They are seen there in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7.

keras said:

I have shown that the version you use adds words to scripture.
And I have posted proofs of how the Christians will occupy all the holy Land. God will destroy the G/M attack in order to display His power to them and to the nations. Ezekiel 38:23
They are the people seen by John in Revelation 7:9 and no amount of bluff and bluster to suit the false rapture theory, that they are in heaven, changes the Bible truth of them being in the holy Land. They are seen there in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7.

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Showing that the REB interpretes Ezekiel 39 in one verse differently compared to the KJV translation does not prove that them in the land of Israel being attacked are Christians.

Also, you have not proved your point by Ezekiel 39:22, and have yet to even address Ezekiel 39:23. And I have asked you to provide us with the REB verses for Ezekiel 39:22-23.

keras said:

They are the people seen by John in Revelation 7:9 and no amount of bluff and bluster to suit the false rapture theory, that they are in heaven, changes the Bible truth of them being in the holy Land. They are seen there in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7.

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The rapture is not the issue regarding Ezekiel 39, keras. It's your claim that them who will be attacked is a newly created nation which you have called Beulah of Christians - different from the Jews over there and the nation of Israel at present.

Douggg, in many prophesies of the Old Testament, they are specific to Israel and the Israelites. As is Ezekiel 39, but to apply them to the ethnic people who purport to be Israel today is gross error.
That idea contradicts the mission and Gospel of Jesus, where He offers Salvation to all. Those who accept it are His faithful Christians and now as many scriptures tell us, we born again Christians are the recipients of the heritage of Israel. Ephesians 1:11-14, Romans 8:16-18, +
This IS how it is now and thinking that the apostate Jewish people have any claim to that heritage, is another failure to read what the Bible tells us about their fate. Isaiah 22:14, Romans 9:27

Isaiah 62:1-2a For Zion’s sake, I shall not keep silent – until her victory shines forth, like the sunrise, her victory like a blazing torch. The nations will see your victory and their rulers your glory.
Isaiah prophesies for the sake of Zion; the holy Land. There will be a great victory, ‘like a blazing torch’ - a CME sunstrike over the attacking enemies. Isaiah 30:25-30 & 66:15-16, Psalms 11:4-6 The world will see it and be amazed. Jeremiah 33:6-16
It will virtually depopulate the entire Middle East. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18

Isaiah 62:2b-5 You will receive a new name, the Lord Himself will give it. You will be like a glorious crown in His hand. No more are you forsaken and your Land desolate. You will be called ‘Hephzibah’ and the Land, ‘Beulah’. For the Lord will delight in you and it will be like a marriage: He will rejoice over you as a bridegroom over his bride.
‘Hephzibah’ = My delight is in her. ‘Beulah’ = married. Isaiah 49:18

The Lord’s people, the Christian Israelites of God, will be gathered and settled into their heritage, all of the holy Land, in the new nation of Beulah. Wonderful promises to them of fertility and wealth. They will live in justice, peace and security, as He intended people to be.

Isaiah 62:6-7 Jerusalem, on your walls, I have posted watchmen, they will call out: You that invoke the Name of the Lord, do not rest and give no rest to the Lord until He makes Jerusalem a praise throughout the world.
The Hebrew word for ‘watchmen’, is ‘natzar’, the root word for Nazarene; literally all Christian believers. WE must not rest or let the Lord forget His people and His Land. Keep praying for our redemption and restoration. Ezekiel 36:24-28, Isaiah 52:7-9

Isaiah 62:8-9 The Lord has sworn to never again allow foreigners to take the produce of the Land, but you who give praises to Him will eat the grain and drink the wine, within My sacred courts.

After the great clearance in the Middle East, only His righteous people will be allowed to live there, those who love the Lord and obey Him. Isaiah 66:20-21, Ezekiel 20:38

Isaiah 62:10-11 Pass through the gates – clear a road for My people. Build a highway, remove the rocks and make a signal to guide the people. Proclaim to the ends of the earth, say to the offspring of Zion: See your deliverance comes, His reward is with Him and He will make recompense.

The great gathering of the Lord’s people – the second Exodus, will happen in the same manner as the first Exodus. Leaders [shepherds] will arise to guide the flock, in the spirit of Moses and Elijah. Jeremiah 3:14-15, Isaiah 58:11, Isaiah 43:5-7, Micah 4:6, Isaiah 49:9-13, Isaiah 51:3, Zechariah 8:11-12, Isaiah 40:1-5, Ezekiel 11:17

Isaiah 62:12 They will be called ‘The Holy people, the Redeemed of God’ and Jerusalem will be called ‘sought after, the City no longer forsaken’.

The Lord’s faithful Christian people: living in the Holy Land of Beulah, as He created them to live, being a ‘light to the nations’ and witnesses to His salvation. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to every people group, to preach the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Acts 2:39, Jeremiah 31:23-34

Joel 2:23-27 People of Zion, rejoice – your God will recompense you for the years that others have ravaged your Land. You will again have plenty in your own Land. Then you will know that I am present in Israel and that I and no other am your God.

We will know the Lord is present by His deeds. Just as it was at the Exodus.
All this must be before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.

Douggg said:

Then in Revelation 12:7-9, why is the war in heaven and not in the bottomless pit that the devil is cast down (Revelation 12:12) to the earth?

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I don't... really think you understand the idea of the two Biblical dimensions Douggg.

There's only two per God's Word, this earthly dimension and the heavenly dimension where God's Abode is, and also where the abode of hell is. The heavenly dimension is a dimension of spirit. Per John 4 our Heavenly Father is a Spirit. The angels don't have flesh bodies, neither does Satan. They have the image of the heavenly.

Remember our Lord's description of Paradise in Luke 16 where there is a great gulf fixed border between hell and the other side where the beggar Lazarus was taken to Abraham's bosom. Remember 2 Cor.12 about the one Paul said was "caught up" to Paradise. (In the Greek Septuagint OT Bible, the name Eden in Genesis is 'paradise' in the Greek.)

So the war in heaven of the future between Michael and Satan will simply be in the 'heavenly' dimension. Not in the clouds of the sky around the earth, which is actually part of our earthly dimension. But behind the veil of this world, in the heavenly dimension. And it certainly does not mean it has to happen right in front of God's Throne in heaven either, though I'm not saying it won't, we don't know that exactly. All we are shown is that it will occur in the heavenly dimension.

In Revelation 9:1...Satan is cast down from heaven to the earth. He is given the key of the bottomless pit. He didn't have it before - so how does he get into his own home? Sounds to me like he didn't leave heaven of his own free will. And God seems to be dismantling his kingdom. Babylon the great is fallen! is fallen!

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He is not actually cast down in the timing of Rev.9:1 (5th trumpet). He is shown there opening the pit so the locusts can be loosed on earth. Star falling from heaven is a descriptor about his fall, as it is also used as a symbol for his future casting out of the heavenly down to this earth (Isaiah 14:12; Luke 10:18; Isaiah 34:4; 6th Seal about the untimely figs).

Seems to me like some other rebellious angels, but those beings are now imprisoned in the bottomless pit, are going to be freed to be judged.

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

So it is going to be Satan and his angels running around on the earth in wrath knowing that their time is about up, plus the angels and creatures in the bottomless pit that are going to be freed for the apparent same reason, for that last time, times, and half times.

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The angels which are kept in chains until the great day of God's Judgment remain there through Christ's future "thousand years" reign. Those angels were the ones who rebelled in Noah's day, taking wives of the daughters of Adam. The angels of Rev.12 cast down with Satan in our future are those who originally rebelled with him against God.

Davy said:

I don't... really think you understand the idea of the two Biblical dimensions Douggg.

There's only two per God's Word, this earthly dimension and the heavenly dimension where God's Abode is, and also where the abode of hell is.

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Are you saying that the Bottomless Pit is not a real physical place located on Earth ?

Revelation 9:2
2 And he opened the pit of the abyss; and there went up a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Davy said:

I don't... really think you understand the idea of the two Biblical dimensions Douggg.

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Regarding heavens, the bible refers to three. Our atmosphere. The cosmos, the second heaven. The heaven where God's throne is, the third heaven. 2Corinthians12:2.

Satan and his angels can roam the first and second heaven. But can only appear before God in the third heaven when summoned.

The war in Revelation 12 which Satan and his angels get cast down to earth - is talking about the second heaven, the cosmos. His place found there no more. For one thing the cosmos is going to be shaken, pulled aside in Revelation 6, the sixth seal near the end ofthe 7 years.

Davy said:

So the war in heaven of the future between Michael and Satan will simply be in the 'heavenly' dimension. Not in the clouds of the sky around the earth, which is actually part of our earthly dimension. But behind the veil of this world, in the heavenly dimension. And it certainly does not mean it has to happen right in front of God's Throne in heaven either, though I'm not saying it won't, we don't know that exactly. All we are shown is that it will occur in the heavenly dimension.

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The second heaven, Davy, the cosmos. the stars.

Davy said:

The angels don't have flesh bodies, neither does Satan. They have the image of the heavenly.

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The angels are different beings than humans and have different capabilities. They have form, but are not always visible to us.

Satan will be visible when Jesus returns. Ezekiel 28:12-19 is an account of Satan's fall and soon destruction.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

How and when is verse 18, going to happen, Davy?

keras said:

Douggg, in many prophesies of the Old Testament, they are specific to Israel and the Israelites. As is Ezekiel 39, but to apply them to the ethnic people who purport to be Israel today is gross error.
That idea contradicts the mission and Gospel of Jesus, where He offers Salvation to all. Those who accept it are His faithful Christians and now as many scriptures tell us, we born again Christians are the recipients of the heritage of Israel. Ephesians 1:11-14, Romans 8:16-18, +
This IS how it is now and thinking that the apostate Jewish people have any claim to that heritage, is another failure to read what the Bible tells us about their fate. Isaiah 22:14, Romans 9:27

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Why is it a gross error? The citizens of the land of Israel don't know Jesus at the time Gog/Magog attacks... but later do. And verse 23 confirms it is talking about the current Jews over there right now and their history.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

Douggg said:

Why is it a gross error? The citizens of the land of Israel don't know Jesus at the time Gog/Magog attacks... but later do. And verse 23 confirms it is talking about the current Jews over there right now and their history.

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The people who re-occupy all of the holy Land, soon after the Lord has cleared and cleansed it by His Day of fiery wrath, will all be faithful believers. Ezekiel 20:34-38, Isaiah 35:1-10, + makes that plain.
The Lord will make His presence known by His actions on their behalf, just as He did with ancient Israel in the desert.

How many times must I show you that the current inhabitants of Israel will soon be Judged and only a remnant will survive. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, Romans 9:27

keras said:

The people who re-occupy all of the holy Land, soon after the Lord has cleared and cleansed it by His Day of fiery wrath, will all be faithful believers.

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Prove it from the verses in Ezekiel 39. Also please type out the REB version of Ezekiel 39:22-23. So we can see why you think that it is talking about Christians from countries all around the world - according to the verses of Ezekiel 39:22-23 according to the REB.

Keras, I use Ezekiel 38 and 39 as a mainstay to my eschatological view all the time. You on the other hand avoid it - why do you think that is?

Douggg said:

Keras, I use Ezekiel 38 and 39 as a mainstay to my eschatological view all the time. You on the other hand avoid it - why do you think that is?

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It is because you have a confused and incorrect belief of the end times sequence of events.
The G/M attack will come upon a people recently brought out from the nations; [could be the Jews, but not necessarily - may refer to a later Exodus] living in peace and undefended.... This proves that the people are not the current citizens of Israel.
They will be the faithful Christians, the Lord's righteous sheep, that will gather after the Lord's Day of wrath has cleared all of the holy land. Ezekiel 34:11-16 tells it plainly.

My focus is on the terrible Day of the Lord's punishment of the nations. Something that most here prefer to ignore.

Ezekiel 38:21-29, refers to all the Israelites, of which the Jews are just 2/12ths. The non-Jewish part have mainly become Christian, as Jesus directed His Apostles to preach the Gospel to them and they did not fail in that task.
The Jews mainly remain in unbelief and only a remnant of them will survive to rejoin their brethren.
Its time for you to understand these truths, because God will Judge those who promote false teachings.

keras said:

It is because you have a confused and incorrect belief of the end times sequence of events.

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keras, I understand the end times sequence of events. It is why I refer to Ezekiel 38 and 39 and you don't.

keras said:

Ezekiel 38:21-23, refers to all the Israelites, of which the Jews are just 2/12ths. The non-Jewish part have mainly become Christian, as Jesus directed His Apostles to preach the Gospel to them and they did not fail in that task.

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Ezekiel 37, the joining of the two sticks, all twelve tribes into one country again has taken place on May 14, 1948.

We are past that keras. Israel now has possession of the temple mount and Jerusalem. The U.S just moved it's embassy there. We are approaching the time of the little horn, followed shorty by the Gog/Magog invasion.

Here is the 2015 religious demographics of Israel, I pulled from the internet...

Jewish 74.8%, Muslim 17.6%, Christian 2%, Druze 1.6%, other 4% (2015)

keras said:

The G/M attack will come upon a people recently brought out from the nations; [could be the Jews, but not necessarily - may refer to a later Exodus] living in peace and undefended.... This proves that the people are not the current citizens of Israel.
They will be the faithful Christians, the Lord's righteous sheep, that will gather after the Lord's Day of wrath has cleared all of the holy land. Ezekiel 34:11-16 tells it plainly.

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keras, Ezekiel 39:17-29 is talking about after Armageddon has taken place. It is Jesus speaking beginning in verse 21.

7 years before then is Gog/Magog. Right after Gog/Magog, the Jews will think the little horn coming from Europe is the their messiah. At the end of the 7 years, is the Armageddon feast on the dead bodies in Ezekiel 39:17-20.

Ezekiel 38-39 is not about bringing Christians to Christ, but about bringing unbelieving Jews, the nation of Israel, to Christ, during the 7 years following Gog/Magog.

The religious demographics over there is...

Jewish 74.8%, Muslim 17.6%, Christian 2%, Druze 1.6%, other 4% (2015)

Riberra said:

Are you saying that the Bottomless Pit is not a real physical place located on Earth ?

Revelation 9:2
2 And he opened the pit of the abyss; and there went up a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

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The pit of hell is not IN this material dimension we live in. References of it being in the earth are metaphorical, the idea to symbolize hell as an underworld. That Rev.9:2 verse is metaphorical, not literal. Likewise the locusts in Rev.9 that come out of that pit are metaphorical, not pointing to literal monsters with the head of men, teeth like lions, and tails like scorpions. If you believe all that is literal, then you have a very vivid imagination. God doesn't do monsters. When He gives us such symbolism, He is using those symbols to show HOW a group of people operate. The locusts topic in Rev.9 was first defined back in the Old Testament Book of Joel. There God showed the locusts are "a nation" that comes upon His people to destroy. That's what they are in Rev.9 also. They don't literally come out of the pit; it means they are Satan's servants.

Douggg said:

Regarding heavens, the bible refers to three. Our atmosphere. The cosmos, the second heaven. The heaven where God's throne is, the third heaven. 2Corinthians12:2.

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The heaven around the earth, i.e., the sky atmosphere, is part of our earthly material dimension. Likewise are the planets, solar systems, stars, galaxies, etc. (i.e., celestial bodies, whole universe). Those are all of the earthly material dimensions, i.e., things seen.

Rom 1:20
20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
KJV

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

Those two verses are actually defining one of the basic laws of physics of how God created our material dimension. Physical matter cannot be either created, nor destroyed (by man that is). This a basic law of physics of our material dimension. Material matter only changes its form (solid, liquid, gas, vapor).

So how did material matter originate since it did not come from itself? That's what that verse is saying about things which we see (i.e., material matter) were not made by those material things that are seen. It means something invisible and separate from matter made them, and that is our Heavenly Father and His Son Who created all things. That reveals there is ANOTHER dimension of existence separate from our earthly one, a dimension that at present is invisible to us. Yet God has shown that invisible dimension to some of His servants (Isaiah 6; 2 Corinthians 12; Daniel 7:9; Ezekiel 1, etc.).

Satan and his angels can roam the first and second heaven. But can only appear before God in the third heaven when summoned.

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The idea of a "third heaven" comes from 2 Corinthians 12 where Paul spoke of one "caught up" to Paradise and heard unspeakable words not lawful to utter. It is referring to the future world to come, not a multiple level of heaven. The heavenly dimension where God is does not have levels like in some Chinese occult book, which is where some got that 3 levels in heaven idea from. To show this, Isaiah 14 reveals in the future world when Satan is locked in the pit, we will be able to look over at him and say, "Is this the man that...?". Likewise in Luke 16, the rich man in hell was able to look over a border of separation in Paradise at Lazarus with Abraham, showing a lateral layout, not a multiple vertical layout. The 3rd heaven is about the 3rd world time in the world to come. The first was the time of old when Satan first rebelled, this present world is the second, and the world to come will be the third.

The war in Revelation 12 which Satan and his angels get cast down to earth - is talking about the second heaven, the cosmos. His place found there no more. For one thing the cosmos is going to be shaken, pulled aside in Revelation 6, the sixth seal near the end ofthe 7 years.
The second heaven, Davy, the cosmos. the stars.

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In Genesis 1:1, in the Hebrew, the heavens is indeed plural, but it's only about two heavens. One is the sky around the earth, and the other is about God's Abode of Heaven. There is no 3rd literal heaven, as I explained that idea from 2 Cor.12 above.

The cosmos is just an ancient Greek word used to describe the order of the universe. It is not about God's Abode of Heaven which exists behind a veil in a different dimension than our material dimension. The cosmos (or universe) is part of our material dimension. God is NOT... living on some far away solar system in the universe, for if that were so then it would mean He would be an alien and not God!

The angels are different beings than humans and have different capabilities. They have form, but are not always visible to us.

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Though Satan is referred to at times as an angel, he is actually a cherib, a truly heavenly created being. The word angel itself though simply means 'messenger'. That's why in some places in the OT when referring to our Lord Jesus in OT times, the phrase "Angel of The Lord" is used, which is only pointing to our Lord Jesus in the sense of appearing as a Messenger at times to His servants on earth, and not meaning that He was anything other than God. So I interpret the word angel to simply mean someone in that other dimension, whether it be one of God's heavenly servants, or the devil, or one of the devil's servants. So really, the word angel is a generic term, not a specific specie of heavenly being.

As in Mark 12:25, Jesus said when the dead rise they are "as the angels which are in heaven." The idea is that they will be in that same state the heavenly angels live in, i.e., the spiritual body state. Apostle Paul explained that state of existence of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 in detail. He said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. So the future existence of the world to come will not be one of a flesh body like we have today. It will be an existence with the "image of the heavenly" Paul mentioned there, which is the same state the angels live in, in heaven. And in final, the OT prophets connect this earth's future with the heavenly dimension, both dimensions existing in the same space and time, i.e., a heaven on earth.

Satan will be visible when Jesus returns. Ezekiel 28:12-19 is an account of Satan's fall and soon destruction.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

How and when is verse 18, going to happen, Davy?

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Satan indeed will be visible in our earthly dimension when our Lord Jesus returns to lock him in his pit prison for the "thousand years" of Rev.20. He is not destroyed then yet, not until after the "thousand years" is finished, as written in Rev.20. When Satan and his angels are booted down to this earth after the war in heaven per Rev.12:7 >, they will be visibly in our earthly dimension. The majority of the world will not recognize him as Satan. They instead will worship him in place of God, as written in Rev.13.

Rev.20 shows Satan is destroyed when he leads the deceived nations upon the "camp of the saints" on earth at the end of the millennium, and God rains fire down from heaven and burns them all up, and Satan is then cast into the "lake of fire". Ezekiel 28:18 suggests then, that the "lake of fire" will be located on earth in that time. Makes sense, because after our Lord Jesus returns, the veil hiding the heavenly dimension from our earthly material dimension will be removed, and hell will be coming on earth (see Rev.22:14-15 of where the wicked's abode will be during the coming millennium.).

Douggg said:

keras, I understand the end times sequence of events. It is why I refer to Ezekiel 38 and 39 and you don't.

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Sorry Douggg, your avatar note proves your ignorance of the end time events.
Anytime rapture? 10 nation European Union? Sufficient for anyone to know you don't know what you are talking about.
We have discussed these issues for years now and no matter how much scriptural proofs are presented, you just ignore them and carry on with your fanciful notions.

You keep on about the Jews being converted during the Great Trib. I point out the many prophesies that tell us how only a remnant of Judah will survive the Lord's Day of wrath.
Your premise is the 'rapture to heaven' one of Christians in heaven, while the Jews get punished. This idea fails on all counts and is simply a fable, as Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:3-4