There is "one", (a God) that could predict and know everything from beginning to end...?

royal priest said:

Why pray if God already knows what I'd ask for and if He already determined what the answer would be?

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What would happen if you don't pray...? Probably nothing right...? So, why wouldn't you pray...? If you don't ask (pray) nothing (will) happen, but if you do, something "might" happen, right...? So why wouldn't you pray...? Considering that you don't know...?

God can't and won't even attempt to answer a prayer that is never prayed, but if it is, or it does, or you do, he might... Isn't that enough for you...?

The fact that you don't know, and he does know, shouldn't change a thing for you...? You should do (or not do), just what you were gonna do (or not do) in the first place, regardless.. The fact that you don't know, and he does know, shouldn't change a thing for you... Why does it...? Cause that's the part I just don't get about you guys...?

God Bless!

royal priest said:

Would you say that if God's plan involved our prayers that His plan would then be dependent on our prayers?

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No, I wouldn't, cause his will is not dependent upon our will... But, consider if you don't ever pray or never choose to pray at all...? (see post above this)...

God Bless!

royal priest said:

Why pray if God already knows what I'd ask for and if He already determined what the answer would be?

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Cause the asking is part of that, and just because he's already determined doesn't mean a thing... Consider what happens if you do not, or never pray...?

Why does this make you want to not pray...? After all you "don't know" and just because he does, the fact that you don't, should make you still want to try vs. not trying at all...

As for me, I choose to pray, cause I don't know, I don't know that my praying might be a part of the outcome or answer that God has determined or predetermined or planned or not...?

Cause I don't know, I choose to pray, I choose to ask, I choose to try, because I just don't know, but do know the outcome of "not praying", or not trying, or not asking, or not doing anything at all...

If you let the fact that things might be all predetermined, let you not pray or not try...? I just don't understand that logic...? Cause the fact that I "don't know", my "not knowing", makes me wonder that, what might possibly happen if I do pray, and the fact that it might be a part of God's plan, makes me even want to pray, or try, or ask, even more than I would want to normally...?

Why does it not you...?

God Bless!

The excitement over what "might happen" if you do pray (vs. if you don't) anyway, what might happen if you do, (regardless of whether you were predestined, or it was predetermined for you to pray or not), shouldn't mean a thing... What you should be thinking about is, regardless of that, is what might happen if you do (pray, ask, do, or try, or "whatever)...

That kind of gets me excited about praying, doing, asking, trying, ect...

Why does it not you...?

God Bless!

royal priest said:

I pray because I believe that God will answer according to His eternal plan. Prayer brings my will into subjection with it. This is one reason why it is important to pray according to His revealed will. There you know you are praying about something that He will say yes to. I also pray because God delights to hear my voice. It is a tremendous priviledge to have the ear of God and what better way to utilize my position in Christ than to call upon God as my Abba?

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Do you really have to, or should you really "have to know" whether or not he will "for sure" say "yes" or not...?

And you should pray about "everything and anything", and it should not have to be dependent on your knowing whether he will for sure say yes or answer or not, cause sometimes, sometimes the answer is no, sometimes, and that kinda teaches us humility...

As far as the rest of your post, I'm very glad you delight in talking to and with God, I do as well, and call him Abba, I think that's great, and definitely keep that up and don't give up on that, K...?

It's just that, don't only just pray about things you think he will say yes to, but all things, OK...? and be OK with him and yourself if the answer is sometimes "No" OK...?

God Bless!

royal priest said:

I pray because I believe that God will answer according to His eternal plan. Prayer brings my will into subjection with it. This is one reason why it is important to pray according to His revealed will. There you know you are praying about something that He will say yes to. I also pray because God delights to hear my voice. It is a tremendous priviledge to have the ear of God and what better way to utilize my position in Christ than to call upon God as my Abba?

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If you do decide to pray about nearly everything or a lot of things, or even say if it's something you think your sure about that he will say "yes" about, but it turns out to be a "no" (it seems), then that can be kind of a real "bummer" to say the least, but, just think, while it's kind of a "bummer", don't get mad at God or anything, but just say to yourself (and know) that while it was a no, or seems to be a no at the time, just say to yourself, "Oh, bummer man... Well, God is much wiser and knows much more than I do, and must have his very good and valid reasons and I need to have faith in and trust that..." And, then, move on to something else and other things, and don't get to hung up on a no answer, or an answer that seems to be a no at the time, K...?

God Bless!

Valetic said:

this is all too much for my fragile little mind

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Sorry... I'll pray for you, K...?

God Bless!

Valetic said:

why would god even create a place he knows is going to have this much pain and suffering

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I have faith that it is for a far better and much "greater good" in the end, even much better and much more glorious than in and/or from the beginning, but, that may be just me, IDK...?

But, it's what I believe...

God Bless!

Grip Docility said:

An idol has indeed been fashioned. An idol that isn’t YHWH.

Relationship is at the center of God’s core message to us. He went so far as to write that in His very blood.

The question for me isn’t “if” God could know everything, but “if” God desires relationship over control and set Creation up thusly.

This is simply my thoughts on the matter and a definite attempt of expression of understanding of what you are expressing, on my part.

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If God desired or desires "relationship" with us above all else, then one of them might have to volunteer to "lower" them or himself, to the point that we actually could relate to them or know them...?

Otherwise, how would relationship, true relationship, and not a vastly distant one, but a "close" one, even be possible...?

I posted in the thread you were participating in a few more things on this as well, if you want to check it out...

God Bless!

Grip Docility said:

An idol has indeed been fashioned. An idol that isn’t YHWH.

Relationship is at the center of God’s core message to us. He went so far as to write that in His very blood.

The question for me isn’t “if” God could know everything, but “if” God desires relationship over control and set Creation up thusly.

This is simply my thoughts on the matter and a definite attempt of expression of understanding of what you are expressing, on my part.

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So, your suggesting that he created everything knowing, (or not knowing everything maybe...?) or knowing everything, and then choosing to not know everything, so he could have and be able to have relationship with us...? (just trying to understand)...?

God Bless!

Grip Docility said:

An idol has indeed been fashioned. An idol that isn’t YHWH.

Relationship is at the center of God’s core message to us. He went so far as to write that in His very blood.

The question for me isn’t “if” God could know everything, but “if” God desires relationship over control and set Creation up thusly.

This is simply my thoughts on the matter and a definite attempt of expression of understanding of what you are expressing, on my part.

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Neogaia777 said:

So, your suggesting that he created everything knowing, (or not knowing everything maybe...?) or knowing everything, and then choosing to not know everything, so he could have and be able to have relationship with us...? (just trying to understand)...?

God Bless!

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I think I see what you suggesting and thinking (I think)...?

But my suggestion is that this necessity of having a God who didn't know "some" things, in order to relate and have relationship with us, explains the trinity, and explains the necessity of the trinity to me, or least having two of them anyway...

Which, in another post or yours, you explained the third in as much of having to be kind of like a "bridge" between the other two, and their two worlds that I found very intriguing BTW...

What are your thoughts on this/that...?

God Bless!

Valetic said:

That would mean Jesus was a created being?

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I'm not going to ponder whether there was any creating going on before creation...

I just know that, before creation, (the angels, us, the universe, matter, time, energy, space, "any of it"), before that, there were three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and what happened before creation, is not in my ability, or scope, to know... Nor will I try to "guess" at anything before that...

I'd rather focus on what happened with them "at" creation, or just right "after" creation... Before it/that I do not know...?

God Bless!