J,8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
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J,8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Douggg
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jgr, you have not caught on yet in the overall nature of the end times prophecies.
Being the Antichrist, that function of the person, is only when he is the King of Israel - not the King of the Roman Empire.
Most of Revelation is the person being the King of the Roman Empire, fourth Kingdom. Being the beast, the 7th and 8th king, the little horn are all functions of being King of the Romana Empire - not King of Israel.
King of Israel is only for about 3 years 3 months - the person for that time is the Antichrist.
When people say the "Antichrist" confirms the covenant, a peace treaty (which I will agree that it is not a peace treaty, but it is not the new covenant either) for 7 years, and then breaks it - they are not saying that the word "Antichrist" is in the text. It is obvious to anyone that the word Antichrist is not in the text.
They are making an interpretation on who the prince is, based on what is written in Daniel 8, regarding the little horn stopping the daily sacrifice and him also destroying many by peace.
I want to restate that the peace treaty idea is misplaced. The covenant to be confirmed is the Mt. Sinai covenant - that the (promised) land belongs to the children of Israel as theirs forever.
The "people of" are given in the text because their functionality for being there is to help identify - the prince who would be coming later to confirm the covenant for 7 years. Who will betray the Jewish people and transgress the Mt. Sinai covenant, which the daily sacrifices were established.
The prince who shall come - when he comes - will be of the Roman Empire, the fourth kingdom, in the end times the EU, as the little horn person.
He only confirms the covenant when the Jewish people embrace him thinking he is the messiah, promised King of Israel, descended from David. It is then that he becomes the Antichrist for a short while, his prophetic function related to Israel.
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Moses is not our lawgiver or the mediator of our covenant.
We are under a higher covenant, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, (Mount Sinai)
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
.
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Oh, OK. Let me respecify.
2 Thessalonians was written a number of years before James' and John's epistles. Paul said that the mystery of iniquity was already at work.
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Douggg, you have not caught on yet to the nature of prophetic fulfillment in Christ.
There's nothing to support that in Daniel 9:24-27, which is the passage we're discussing.
There's nothing to support that in Daniel 9:24-27, which is the passage we're discussing.
There's nothing to support that in Daniel 9:24-27, which is the passage we're discussing.
You're right, it isn't. But Messiah is.
I don't know who "they" are, nor do I know what interpretation they are making about Daniel 8. But the prince is unquestionably Messiah in Daniel 9:24-27.
The only Covenant in Daniel 9:24-27 is the New Covenant in Prince Messiah's Blood.
The people of Prince Messiah were the Romans and Jews, as confirmed in earlier posts.
The prince who shall come, and who did come, was Messiah, the only individual explicitly identified as a prince in Daniel 9:24-27.
He confirmed the New Covenant in His Blood (Matthew 26:28).
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Douggg
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I am focusing on the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:26 and him confirming the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27.
There is all kinds of support that the prince who shall come is the little horn. The person in Daniel 9:27 causes the daily sacrifice and oblation to cease. The little horn in Daniel 8 by him the daily sacrifice in the vision was be taken away.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
The prince in Daniel 9:26 - shall come. In Daniel 8, the little horn comes to Israel.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
In Daniel 7, the little horn emerges up among ten kings of the fourth kingdom - the Roman Empire, who were the "people of" the prince in Daniel 9:26.
You didn't confirm anything. You just made a not in the bible claim that Titus was designated as being God's servant.
There is nothing in the Bible that says the messiah is of the Romans, nor comes out of the Romans. The messiah is descended from King David of Israel. Salvation is of the Jews; that is, coming out of that group of people - not the Romans. There is nothing in the genealogies of Jesus that he was of the Romans.
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The time period of the little horn is unspecified, and he is not described as being a prince. The time period of Messiah the Prince is the 70th week.
Daniel 8
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven...
No mention of Israel.
The little horn is historically identifiable as papal Rome, which emerged from the dissolution of the Roman empire beginning in the 5th century AD. There is no relationship between it and the people of Prince Messiah.
True. Never have I said that He is or does.
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David Kent
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Jesus tell us, in Olivet, exactly when the great tribulation was to be. It was after the Chrristians saw the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem. That was the sign for the Christians to flee the city. Early history tells us that is exactly what happened.
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David Kent
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I don't see any reason to read your posts any more, since you don't believe that Luke and Acts are scripture. You are a disgrace, and an embarrassment to the futurists. They don't need you to do their work for them, they are quite capable of showing themselves up.
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David Kent
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- John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
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- 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
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David Kent
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You should not use modern versions to support your prophetic interpretations as these version as are often biased by modern teachings. Use a bible translation from before 1820.
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Footnotes in the 1599 Geneva Bible, in v26 mentions the Roman Titus who comes to the destroy the city.
Titus prevailed abominating the temple making it desolate because the judgement was of God, meaning it was a work of God and Christ to desolate Jerusalem, and Titus and the Romans accomplished that task according to the will of God. The entire temple system of sacrifices and offerings was no more in effect, and had been for several years, the New Covenant which is everlasting, God established in Christ's blood. God finally destroyed the earthly sanctuary, years after the resurrection in 70AD..
Daniel 9:24 He alludeth to Jeremiah’s prophecy: who prophesied that their captivity should be seventy years: but now God’s mercy should sevenfold exceed his judgment, which should be four hundred and ninety years, even to the coming of Christ, and so then it should continue forever.
Daniel 9:24 Meaning, Daniel’s nation, over whom he was careful.
Daniel 9:24 To show mercy and to put sin out of remembrance.
Daniel 9:25 That is, from the time that Cyrus gave them leave to depart.
Daniel 9:25 These weeks make forty-nine years, whereof 46 are referred to the time of the building of the Temple, and three to the laying of the foundation.
Daniel 9:25 Counting from the sixth year of Darius, who gave the second commandment for the building of the Temple are 62 weeks, which make 434 years, which comprehend the time from the building of the Temple unto the baptism of Christ.
Daniel 9:25 Hebrew, in straits of time.
Daniel 9:26 In this least week of the seventy, shall Christ come and preach and suffer death.
Daniel 9:26 He shall seem to have no beauty, nor to be of any estimation, as Isa. 53:2.
Daniel 9:26 Meaning Titus, Vespasian’s son, who should come and destroy both the Temple and the people without all hope of recovery.
Daniel 9:27 By the preaching of the Gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
Daniel 9:27 Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
Daniel 9:27 Meaning, that Jerusalem and the Sanctuary should be utterly destroyed for their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague shall be so great, that they shall be all astonied at them.
Daniel 9 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to show thee, for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon [t]thy people and upon thine holy city, to finish the wickedness, and to seal up the sins, and to reconcile the iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand that from [v]the going forth of the commandment to bring again the people, and to build Jerusalem, unto Messiah the Prince, shall be seven [w]weeks and [x]threescore and two weeks, and the street shall be built again, and the wall even in a [y]troublous time.
26 And after threescore and two [z]weeks, shall Messiah be slain, and shall [aa]have nothing, and the people of the [ab]prince that shall come, shall destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and the end thereof shall be with a flood: and unto the end of the battle it shall be destroyed by desolations.
27 And he [ac]shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to [ad]cease, [ae]and for the overspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Titus prevailed abominating the temple making it desolate because the judgement was of God, meaning it was a work of God and Christ to desolate Jerusalem, and Titus and the Romans accomplished that task according to the will of God. The entire temple system of sacrifices and offerings was no more in effect, and had been for several years, the New Covenant which is everlasting, God established in Christ's blood. God finally destroyed the earthly sanctuary, years after the resurrection in 70AD..
Daniel 9:24 He alludeth to Jeremiah’s prophecy: who prophesied that their captivity should be seventy years: but now God’s mercy should sevenfold exceed his judgment, which should be four hundred and ninety years, even to the coming of Christ, and so then it should continue forever.
Daniel 9:24 Meaning, Daniel’s nation, over whom he was careful.
Daniel 9:24 To show mercy and to put sin out of remembrance.
Daniel 9:25 That is, from the time that Cyrus gave them leave to depart.
Daniel 9:25 These weeks make forty-nine years, whereof 46 are referred to the time of the building of the Temple, and three to the laying of the foundation.
Daniel 9:25 Counting from the sixth year of Darius, who gave the second commandment for the building of the Temple are 62 weeks, which make 434 years, which comprehend the time from the building of the Temple unto the baptism of Christ.
Daniel 9:25 Hebrew, in straits of time.
Daniel 9:26 In this least week of the seventy, shall Christ come and preach and suffer death.
Daniel 9:26 He shall seem to have no beauty, nor to be of any estimation, as Isa. 53:2.
Daniel 9:26 Meaning Titus, Vespasian’s son, who should come and destroy both the Temple and the people without all hope of recovery.
Daniel 9:27 By the preaching of the Gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
Daniel 9:27 Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
Daniel 9:27 Meaning, that Jerusalem and the Sanctuary should be utterly destroyed for their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague shall be so great, that they shall be all astonied at them.
Daniel 9 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to show thee, for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon [t]thy people and upon thine holy city, to finish the wickedness, and to seal up the sins, and to reconcile the iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand that from [v]the going forth of the commandment to bring again the people, and to build Jerusalem, unto Messiah the Prince, shall be seven [w]weeks and [x]threescore and two weeks, and the street shall be built again, and the wall even in a [y]troublous time.
26 And after threescore and two [z]weeks, shall Messiah be slain, and shall [aa]have nothing, and the people of the [ab]prince that shall come, shall destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and the end thereof shall be with a flood: and unto the end of the battle it shall be destroyed by desolations.
27 And he [ac]shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to [ad]cease, [ae]and for the overspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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seventysevens
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As always you are flat out Wrong , you have no clue what it is or why it is or when it is
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David Kent
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There is of course nothing in that that is remotely scriptural.
No one has said of Jesus that he was of the Romans, Scripture doesn't say that Antichrist would be of the Jews. John tells us that antichrists have gone out from "us" that is the church. That is why we say that the Pope is Antichrist, his forefathers went out from the church, and he is still outside the church. They have murdered tens of millions of Christians, if not hundreds of millions, over the centuries. Truly Antichrist, as their claim to be Vicar of Christ says. That means exactly the same as Antichrist. They have never repented of their crimes, and said in the past, if they had the chance they would do it again. But they have no need to they are getting their way in Churches Together, as various member churches are gradually adopting RC teachngs.
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Douggg
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The time period of the little horn is specified. The daily sacrifice will be started, then stopped, the temple desolated, the temple cleansed of the little horn, within a specified 2300 day period. At the time of the end.
Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
The pleasant land is Israel.
The little horn is time of the end. Time of the end is characterized in Daniel 12 as when men run to and fro, and knowledge increased. By virtue of the computer and internet.
You wrote that the messiah's people are the Jews and the Romans. The prince who shall come's people are the Romans, not the messiah's.
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Douggg
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Yes, it is scriptural, and here are the verses.
Of the coming Antichrist...
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Of Jesus.....
John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Of Jesus....
Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
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David Kent
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No it is you that is flat out wrong.
In Matthew 23, Jesus told the Pharisees that there house was left desolate, and that all those things would all come on that generation. On leaving the temple, the disciples were amazed at that and drew his attention to the great stones, some 25 metres long, How could that be? they said. Jesus said "Not one stone would be left upon another.", They asked what would be the sign for it, and when would that happen, He said the sign was when they saw the abomination of desolation stand where it should no, that is when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies (Luke). The time was to be before that current generation passed away.
All fulfilled.
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Douggg
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The coming Antichrist has to be and will be a Jew.
Them who John was saying that there were already many antichrists - going out from "us" that is the church, as you say, of all peoples, nationality's - John was likening them to the coming Antichrist because they were exhibiting the same traits. John was calling them therefore antichrists - not that they were the actual coming Antichrist.
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