Anyone Interested in a General Exposition of the Revelation?

mark kennedy said:

I consider that an indefensible statement.

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Which one? There are four.

mark kennedy said:

That sounds a lot like ICBMs, of course there are other explanations but the heavens receding like a scroll, stars falling from heaven. One has to wonder, with the devastation with so many ground forces could the nations be resorting to nuclear strikes, the rest of the description perhaps describing nuclear winter. It could account for why they are in the dens and caves of the rocks, fall out bunkers perhaps?

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Considering the text in 6:16-17 calls it the wrath of the Lamb I was always convinced the cataclysm here were cosmic in nature. Not actual stars falling but meteors in large quantities.

mark kennedy said:

. It goes from a kind of triumphant procession, the Antichrist sporting the bow which is some kind of a ballistic weapon.

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One thing which always interested me is there's a bow but no arrows mentioned. Perhaps conquering bloodless through deception and then when power consolidated bringing war to pockets of resistance like those pesky constitutionalists in the USA.

Just a stab there.

redleghunter said:

One thing which always interested me is there's a bow but no arrows mentioned. Perhaps conquering bloodless through deception and then when power consolidated bringing war to pockets of resistance like those pesky constitutionalists in the USA.

Just a stab there.

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An important observation (the bow but no arrows - not the pesky American constitutionalists ;-)

mark kennedy said:

That may well be that case, and of course a cataclysm on that level is certainly an act of God. What I'm thinking about here is nuclear winter and what it would do to the atmosphere. The stars falling like over ripe figs, ok maybe meteors but there remains a possibility of human weapons.

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Yes can be man-made as you mention the faithful could have a period of warning and prophecy.

I am reminded of some of the science models of extinction events where a hypothetical meteor or many cause impacts which kick up the soil and dust to create the sackcloth type screening of the Sun and Moon. Which has as well a nuclear winter type of effect.

Good thread. Thanks.

mark kennedy said:

I consider that an indefensible statement.

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Former Dispensationalist Pastor Steve Gregg on Daniel's 70 weeks.


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redleghunter said:

I am reminded of some of the science models of extinction events where a hypothetical meteor or many cause impacts which kick up the soil and dust to create the sackcloth type screening of the Sun and Moon. Which has as well a nuclear winter type of effect.

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Why is the thing that is plainly prophesied ignored?
An explosion of the suns surface can and will cause all the prophesied effects of the great and terrible Day of the Lord's wrath. A literal day and a literal seven times brighter flash from the sun, a literal bright red reflection of it by the moon, literal tectonic plate shift, storms and tsunamis.
The initial Electro-Magnetic pulse will cause every explosive device to go off, fulfilling Psalms 7:12-16, nuke missiles will explode on the launch pad. Jeremiah 49:35-37, Ezekiel 32:24-25, is Iran's fate.

If people care to look at the many websites, incl NASA, that warn of, not the possible but the probable; strike onto the earth by a high magnitude Coronal Mass Ejection and its disastrous effects, then perhaps understanding will come and it will be seen to be what must happen.
God used water the first time He reset our civilization, this time He will use fire. 2 Peter 3:7

seventysevens said:

That is funny - the book of the revelation regarding the return of Jesus is a prophecy of the future that has not yet happened ,

seems reading comprehension is not your best quality

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Do you really not understand what I said about Revelation 11 or are you just making strawman arguments?

LastSeven said:

Revelation 11

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
...
“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

If that still sounds prophetic or imminent to you then perhaps English is not your first language. So let me help you. The word "has" is a third person singular present indicative of "have" which means to hold, possess, receive or contain.

In order words, this is not speaking of a future time. This is speaking in the present tense. And let me remind you, this is chapter 11 of the book of Revelation. So if the time for judging has come in chapter 11, then clearly the book is not written in chronological order. And this is just one example.

If you still can't see that, then you're just being stubborn for who knows what reason.

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Maybe you just don't quite understood the way that Revelation is written brother, have you ever thought of it in that manner? You see Rev. 11 starts before Rev. ch. 6, the Two-witnesses who die after 1260 days would tell you that if you would just pause, take a deep breath, and think !!

If the Anti-Christ comes forth at the First Seal in Rev. ch. 6, and he is a Beast for 1260 days, and he dies at the 7th Vial, that would tell you the the Two-witnesses dying at the end of the 2nd Woe means they had to show up before the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem thus becoming the Beast in Rev. ch. 6, thus Rev. 11 has to start before Rev. ch. 6 starts.

POINT BEING: Revelation is not in chronological order, but most people are so confused when I explain it, they get offended or get a headache via confusion and cry uncle, STOP.

As I have been explaining for a couple of years

1.) Rev. 1, 2 and 3 are the Seven Churches of Asia Minor.

2.) Rev. 4, 5, 7 and 19 is the Raptured Church in Heaven.

3.) Rev. 6, 8, 9 and 16 are the 21 Judgments brought against the World (Babylon Satan's Dark Kingdom).

4.) Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 and 18 are VISIONS that fill in the gaps just like Rev. ch. 11. Kind of like a parenthesis in a book instead of in a sentence. You see the Two-witnesses are alive when the Anti-Christ comes forth in Rev. ch. 6, they are alive when the Trumpets are sounded in Rev. ch. 8, as a matter of fact it states that the prayers of the Saints are taken unto the Alter of God and then hurled back unto earth mingled with fire. Then in Rev. 11 we are told the Two-witnesses bring forth the PLAGUES OF GOD !! Doesn't anyone get it? Rev. 11 is a VISION about the time of the Two-witnesses lives on earth, their witness starts before the Anti-Christ is released by Jesus, they witness for 1260 days. They die BEFORE the Beast at Vial number 7 so SIMPLE MATH tells us they must show up before the Beast (Rev. 6) but its like Satan has everyone confused, its SIMPLE MATH !! Thus Rev. ch 11 has nothing to do with Revelation's Chronological Order at all. That comes from following the 21 Judgments.

Rev. 12 and 13 are just like Rev. 11, they both are mostly about things going on at the Midway point (the 1260) which is Rev. ch. 6. The BEAST ARISES (Midway point) the Woman Flees (Midway point) so both come to pass at the 1260 or when the Holy People are SCATTERED !! (Dan. ch. 12)

I am going to do this that the OP is speaking of, except I am going to try a novel idea, I am going to tell the story of Revelation in order, and place the number of the chapter I am referencing inside the sentence or chapter that I am speaking about. In other words if I am speaking about the Harlot I will place an (R17) if I am speaking about the Two-witness I will place an (R11). And I am going to endeavor to put it all IN ORDER, I have been working on this awhile anyway.

inquiring mind said:

There are definitely two different wordings in the scripture of Daniel 9:27 rendered by the KJV and NIV, which make it confusing. I will have to fall back on my method of trying to interpret the KJV when there is confusion.

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Jesus refers to this prophecy in Matthew 24:15.

He adds "holy place." At that point in history there was only one "holy place" which was the Temple .

Revealing Times said:

And I am going to endeavor to put it all IN ORDER, I have been working on this awhile anyway.

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Actually, it's already been done:

https://www.amazon.com/Chronologica...8&qid=1522561881&sr=8-1&keywords=barry+dysert

dysert said:

Actually, it's already been done:

https://www.amazon.com/Chronologica...8&qid=1522561881&sr=8-1&keywords=barry+dysert

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The fact that Revelation 16:15-16 and Revelation 19 both refer to the Second Coming at Armageddon, could be bad for book sales.

Showing that the same signs in the sun, moon, and stars in Revelation 6 are also found in the Olivet Discourse at the Second Coming of Christ, could be bad for book sales.
(The moon does not give its normal light during a Blood Moon.)

Pointing out that "the time of the judgment of the dead" is in Revelation 11:18, could be bad for book sales.

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BABerean2 said:

The fact that Revelation 16:15-16 and Revelation 19 both refer to the Second Coming at Armageddon, could be bad for book sales.

Showing that the same signs in the sun, moon, and stars in Revelation 6 are also found in the Olivet Discourse at the Second Coming of Christ, could be bad for book sales.
(The moon does not give its normal light during a Blood Moon.)

Pointing out that "the time of the judgment of the dead" is in Revelation 11:18, could be bad for book sales.

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I'm not interested in book sales. I simply posted that link for anyone who wants to read Revelation in chronological order and therefore get a better understanding of the book than they might have now. You might even benefit from reading it ;-).

dysert said:

I'm not interested in book sales. I simply posted that link for anyone who wants to read Revelation in chronological order and therefore get a better understanding of the book than they might have now. You might even benefit from reading it ;-).

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You might benefit from the following talk by Dr. Sam Storms, who attended Dallas Theological Seminary, but rejected the Two Peoples of God doctrine taught by that school.


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mark kennedy said:

I'm not suggesting a verse by verse exposition, more like chapter by chapter. I've tried this a number of times and still no luck getting anyone interested. I always thought it was helpful got get an overview before trying to take it verse by verse or word for word. I have what I think is a fairly straight forward outline of the seals, trumpets and vials of wrath. I've also done an outline chapter by chapter to help with a comprehensive overview.

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I understand, just a synopsis so to speak. I will give it a shot.

dysert said:

I'm not interested in book sales. I simply posted that link for anyone who wants to read Revelation in chronological order and therefore get a better understanding of the book than they might have now. You might even benefit from reading it ;-).

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What I could see seemed a little discombobulated to be honest.