What is the attitude towards transgender people in the Christian Church?

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 1, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
So, the issue should have been how is one a child of god not descriminating Who is.

The thing is, scripture explains quite clearly the how and the who.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Unveiled Artist · Feb 1, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
The thing is, scripture explains quite clearly the how and the who.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The focus should be who a child of god is. Ive seen people turn from their faith because they are told more about whats wrong with them then encouraging them to be a chils of god without putting them in one box just because of a word. Very unchristian. If it is christian, its a very distasteful part of the faith that I personally never experienced in Catholicism as I did in some protestant churches.

The main point is dont judge how they identify themselves. Thats between them and god. Encourage them in their relationship with god. Dont say they are broken by how they identify. That says nothing. Its deeper than that. Generalities hurt. I never read jesus did such a thing nor experienced it.

In a biblical perspective, identifying as trangender is just a human/man thing that is part of who someone is as male or female. It has nothing to do with their spirituality medically speaking. Its pure psychological and physical. Christians putting down people and excluding expressions of others as if they were things and outsiders is very unchristian.

Priorities should be on how they identify as christians not as transgender.

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 1, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
The focus should be who a child of god is. Ive seen people turn from their faith because they are told more about whats wrong with them then encouraging them to be a chils of god without putting them in one box just because of a word. Very unchristian. If it is christian, its a very distasteful part of the faith that I personally never experienced in Catholicism as I did in some protestant churches.

Your profile pic says you are not Christian but are Buddist, but I would ask you, respectfully, what box are you talking about? The scripture I posted is quite clear as to how to become a child of God and who is a child of God. But, you choose. Lord Jesus is the one who says He is the way.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
He has set the requirement for salvation and we cannot gainsay Him.

Zoii · Feb 1, 2018

Goatee said:
Be happy what you born as. Dont let satan twist your mind.

Those with genetic gender dysphoria are not affected by Satan, they have a genetic condition. Id just ask people here to acknowledge that theres a significant proportion of transgender people who are the way they are because of their genetics eg XXY

Unveiled Artist · Feb 1, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Your profile pic says you are not Christian but are Buddist, but I would ask you, respectfully, what box are you talking about? The scripture I posted is quite clear as to how to become a child of God and who is a child of God. But, you choose. Lord Jesus is the one who says He is the way.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
He has set the requirement for salvation and we cannot gainsay Him.

My point is focus on them being a child of god and encourage them to identify as a child of god foremost.

In my signature it says Im a former catholic. There are a lot of catholic values I agree with and others I dont. In my first reponse I mentioned at Mass the priest didnt talk about gay marriage but he focused on the sanctity of marriage between male and female. He wasnt bias. He didnt have a hidden message for "outsiders" and he didnt quote that because one is X they are automatic sinners. It was a beautiful Mass that I wish some protestants can take up.

I dont have the view "because Im buddhist I cant talk christian." I dont separate myself from religions all because I believe something contrary to the belief I speak of. Any religion. "I just hope my former and present belief doesnt interrupt people in worshiping their lord".

Putting people in a box means generalizing. If I said I were transgender (and I am not), you would put me in one box without even knowing me. Each person has their own view of identity. Same as a christian. Each person identifies and expresses their identity in christ differently. Thats okay. Its human.

Focus on their identity in christ. If you want to focus on their gender (not their sex), then get to know them and how they see themselves. Are you more considered on how they identify as a person not as in christ? Also, how does their being transgender have anything to do with being a child of christ?

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 1, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
My point is focus on them being a child of god and encourage them to identify as a child of god foremost.

In my signature it says Im a former catholic. There are a lot of catholic values I agree with and others I dont. In my first reponse I mentioned at Mass the priest didnt talk about gay marriage but he focused on the sanctity of marriage between male and female. He wasnt bias. He didnt have a hidden message for "outsiders" and he didnt quote that because one is X they are automatic sinners. It was a beautiful Mass that I wish some protestants can take up.

I dont have the view "because Im buddhist I cant talk christian." I dont separate myself from religions all because I believe something contrary to the belief I speak of. Any religion. "I just hope my former and present belief doesnt interrupt people in worshiping their lord".

Putting people in a box means generalizing. If I said I were transgender (and I am not), you would put me in one box without even knowing me. Each person has their own view of identity. Same as a christian. Each person identifies and expresses their identity in christ differently. Thats okay. Its human.

Focus on their identity in christ. If you want to focus on their gender (not their sex), then get to know them and how they see themselves. Are you more considered on how they identify as a person not as in christ? Also, how does their being transgender have anything to do with being a child of christ?

I am sorry, I did not read your signature. Did you read my posts in this thread. I think you will agree with what I wrote since you believe in Catholic values.

DavidFirth · Feb 1, 2018

Jesus died for the ungodly. ALL of the ungodly who believe in Him.

I don't have a problem with anybody because of their gender. If it is problem it is between them and God.

Unveiled Artist · Feb 1, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
I am sorry, I did not read your signature. Did you read my posts in this thread. I think you will agree with what I wrote since you believe in Catholic values.

Some I agree with others I dont. Unfortunetly, this site isnt non-christian friendly on things. But I think we are talking about two different things. There is no scripture that differientates one's sex and one's gender. That study and medical facts know one knew in that time period. Transgender is highly separate than encouraging people who identify as being a child of god. Their identity does nothing in and of itself.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

How does this relate to transgender christians?

Im confused. The church says they are disordered. Half the people on this thread and most on this forum think that. I was just focus on how it is unchristian to discriminate people based on how they identify on earth. I like "neither male or female" verse because it doesnt focus on one's gender nor one's sex. It talks about who one is in christ is not based on gender.

So any thing against people who identify something opposite of their sex is not wrong. Identifying isnt wrong. There was a time where Deaf people were considered disabled and didnt have the same privilages as hearing. I think I remember religious issues but many are education and family barriers as well. Race used to be a religious issue. People form bias. But Im on the wrong site for my political views on religion and equal rights.

As with catholicism, I agree with their views when going off of their foundation. When they say someone is disordered, thats not scripture. I mean, I have epilepsy and years ago we were sent to mental hospitals and people even today once thought we had demons now one church tried to get "the holy spirit" from me by holding me down and not calling 911. This was five years ago!

Dont think the mindset will change. Interesting to learn from it nonetheless.

_-iconoclast-_ · Feb 2, 2018

Dave RP said:
As they are the experts I would have to say that this is a condition requiring treatment in the same way as many others

Hey hey kind sir

You seem to be using an authority as evidence in your argument. You seem to be claiming that it is an illness because it is believed by you that the nhs are to be an authority on the subject.

Why do you accept the nhs as an authority?

Dave RP said:
I guess because the person with the gender issues is suffering genuine mental or physical problems which need to be addressed.

What might these physical problems - pain or suffering - be that are considered a disease or period of sickness affecting the body or mind?

How does this person suffer - the state of undergoing pain, distress, or hardship?

_-iconoclast-_ · Feb 2, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
Some I agree with others I dont. Unfortunetly, this site isnt non-christian friendly on things. But I think we are talking about two different things. There is no scripture that differientates one's sex and one's gender. That study and medical facts know one knew in that time period. Transgender is highly separate than encouraging people who identify as being a child of god. Their identity does nothing in and of itself.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

How does this relate to transgender christians?

Im confused. The church says they are disordered. Half the people on this thread and most on this forum think that. I was just focus on how it is unchristian to discriminate people based on how they identify on earth. I like "neither male or female" verse because it doesnt focus on one's gender nor one's sex. It talks about who one is in christ is not based on gender.

So any thing against people who identify something opposite of their sex is not wrong. Identifying isnt wrong. There was a time where Deaf people were considered disabled and didnt have the same privilages as hearing. I think I remember religious issues but many are education and family barriers as well. Race used to be a religious issue. People form bias. But Im on the wrong site for my political views on religion and equal rights.

As with catholicism, I agree with their views when going off of their foundation. When they say someone is disordered, thats not scripture. I mean, I have epilepsy and years ago we were sent to mental hospitals and people even today once thought we had demons now one church tried to get "the holy spirit" from me by holding me down and not calling 911. This was five years ago!

Dont think the mindset will change. Interesting to learn from it nonetheless.

Hey hey friend.

Is gender re assignment considered an action?

Cheerd

Goatee · Feb 2, 2018

Zoii said:
Those with genetic gender dysphoria are not affected by Satan, they have a genetic condition. Id just ask people here to acknowledge that theres a significant proportion of transgender people who are the way they are because of their genetics eg XXY

Pure rubbish.

Dave RP · Feb 2, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Our Father has offered the gift of eternal life as a gift to all of humanity!!! He has provided it! People just do not want the gift, they despise the gift! They see the gift as worthless, and they reject the gift.
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now, if you gave the most precious thing you had as a gift to someone (from a purely human perspective), and they rejected your gift, despised it and you for giving it, and they tossed it into the trash like it was worthless. How would you feel? Not only that, your gift was worth more than all of the gold,silver, and precious stones that could be found anywhere.

Paul had a supernatural encounter with Lord Jesus on the Damascus road, and there were witnesses. It was so profound that he was blinded for three days. So it was much more than a hallucination. His words are considered scripture so either you believe that or you don't. Our Father has placed the power of choice into our hands.

Good morning.

You asked - "Now, if you gave the most precious thing you had as a gift to someone (from a purely human perspective), and they rejected your gift, despised it and you for giving it, and they tossed it into the trash like it was worthless. How would you feel? Not only that, your gift was worth more than all of the gold,silver, and precious stones that could be found anywhere."

I have to say that no one in their right minds would reject that gift, it would be completely stupid to do so. The difference between believers and me is that i just don't see any evidence that this gift has been offered to me. The bible is a series of stories, all written by humans (from my perspective) and I see no more reason to believe that book is divinely inspired that the koran, the hindu vedas, the book of mormon or any other sacred books of the numerous world religions. I fully understand that this condemns me in christian doctrine but I cannot force myself to believe something I consider to be unbelievable. I do not despise the gift, or toss it into the trash (rubbish being the correct English word!) nor do I believe it to be worthless, I just don't believe I have been offered it. When I die, if I'm stood in front of Jesus I will say I'm sorry, I just never got it, but now I see it is true, I am ready to go along with it. Does that make any sense?

You then say - "Paul had a supernatural encounter with Lord Jesus on the Damascus road, and there were witnesses. It was so profound that he was blinded for three days. So it was much more than a hallucination. His words are considered scripture so either you believe that or you don't. Our Father has placed the power of choice into our hands." And the point I make here is with "His words are considered scripture" - His words were deemed scripture by the early church, ratifies by the later church and then believed in by subsequent adherents. My problem is that I can see no evidence to believe that his words were anything more than well intentioned opinion.

Please believe me, I fully respect anyone for their beliefs in any religion (or none) I'm just explaining why I don't share the belief.

Dave RP · Feb 2, 2018

_-iconoclast-_ said:
Hey hey kind sir

You seem to be using an authority as evidence in your argument. You seem to be claiming that it is an illness because it is believed by you that the nhs are to be an authority on the subject.

Why do you accept the nhs as an authority?

What might these physical problems - pain or suffering - be that are considered a disease or period of sickness affecting the body or mind?

How does this person suffer - the state of undergoing pain, distress, or hardship?

Hello again.

i accept the NHS as an expert on health matters, more than I am.

I don't know precisely how a transgender person suffers, I can only guess that they suffer mentally but as I've (thankfully) not had that issue I just don't know.

_-iconoclast-_ · Feb 2, 2018

Dave RP said:
i accept the NHS as an expert on health matters, more than I am.

And a hello to you sir.

Cool.

is it complete trust?

Dave RP said:
I don't know precisely how a transgender person suffers, I can only guess that they suffer mentally but as I've (thankfully) not had that issue I just don't know.

Would you say you have no awareness or understanding of the facts, are the previous statements opinion?

Cheers. You are a perfect gentleman

Dave RP · Feb 2, 2018

_-iconoclast-_ said:
And a hello to you sir.

Cool. is it complete trust?

Would you say you have no awareness or understanding of the facts, are the previous statements opinion?

Cheers. You are a perfect gentleman

Dave RP said:
Hello again.

i accept the NHS as an expert on health matters, more than I am.

I don't know precisely how a transgender person suffers, I can only guess that they suffer mentally but as I've (thankfully) not had that issue I just don't know.

"Compete trust" - no, not 100% infallible trust but on balance, given the health service is responsible for state provided healthcare to the UK population I believe they will treat health conditions which require treatment. if they undertake unnecessary treatment they waste taxpayers money, so I believe on balance that transgender issues are a health problem requiring treatment.

In answer to "Would you say you have no awareness or understanding of the facts, are the previous statements opinion?" - I said that I have no understanding of how a transgender person feels, hence I can only guess. I also have no understanding how an impotent person feels, or someone with a serious illness, or mental health issues or even a dodgy knee - thankfully my health is currently good, but I can imagine that anyone with a serious but treatable health condition must feel a bit better when they know they can be treated, and when that treatment starts.

From a religious point of view, I still don't comprehend why this should be an issue for Christians.

I hope you have a fab weekend.

yeshuaslavejeff · Feb 2, 2018

QUOTE="Handmaid for Jesus, post: 72288576, member: 274455"]Our Father has offered the gift of eternal life as a gift to all of humanity!!! He has provided it! People just do not want the gift, they despise the gift! They see the gift as worthless, and they reject the gift.
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now, if you gave the most precious thing you had as a gift to someone (from a purely human perspective), and they rejected your gift, despised it and you for giving it, and they tossed it into the trash like it was worthless. How would you feel? Not only that, your gift was worth more than all of the gold,silver, and precious stones that could be found anywhere.[/QUOTE
=====================================
Amen! HalleluYAH !

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 2, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

How does this relate to transgender christians?

There are several scriptures that I posted that are inclusive of all people. I thought it was clear by my posts that salvation is available to everybody. The sin nature is in everybody, but everybody can repent and be restored into fellowship through faith in the mighty work of Lord Jesus.Lord Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be born again.But mankind do not desire to give up the sin nature
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Like many people today, Nicodemus did not understand.But Lord Jesus explained the activity of the Holy Spirit in salvation. And He did not discriminate against anyone.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit .

Our Father loves everyone, but everyone does not love Him. Yet, every day there are new mercies for the just and the unjust alike because of His unfailing love.

Unveiled Artist said:
Im confused. The church says they are disordered. Half the people on this thread and most on this forum think that. I was just focus on how it is unchristian to discriminate people based on how they identify on earth. I like "neither male or female" verse because it doesnt focus on one's gender nor one's sex. It talks about who one is in christ is not based on gender.

Now this is a Christian forum, so, for the most part, you will get Christian thought and opinion. They allow you, as a Buddhist to participate.
Yes, our Father in His creation, created order.Male and female He created humanity.

Genesis 1:27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

He did not say that their gender shall be fluid. He was very decisive, there was no disorder, no confusion.Our Father is not the author of confusion.But mankind, with the inherited sin nature through Adam's sin, is subject to confusion and every evil work.
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Unveiled Artist · Feb 2, 2018

_-iconoclast-_ said:
Hey hey friend.

Is gender re assignment considered an action?

Cheerd

Yes.

What are you getting at? Transgender is someone with gender disphoria? Its not an action.

What do you mean?

Unveiled Artist · Feb 2, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
There are several scriptures that I posted that are inclusive of all people. I thought it was clear by my posts that salvation is available to everybody. The sin nature is in everybody, but everybody can repent and be restored into fellowship through faith in the mighty work of Lord Jesus.Lord Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be born again.But mankind do not desire to give up the sin nature
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Like many people today, Nicodemus did not understand.But Lord Jesus explained the activity of the Holy Spirit in salvation. And He did not discriminate against anyone.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit .

Our Father loves everyone, but everyone does not love Him. Yet, every day there are new mercies for the just and the unjust alike because of His unfailing love.

Now this is a Christian forum, so, for the most part, you will get Christian thought and opinion. They allow you, as a Buddhist to participate.
Yes, our Father in His creation, created order.Male and female He created humanity.

Genesis 1:27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

He did not say that their gender shall be fluid. He was very decisive, there was no disorder, no confusion.Our Father is not the author of confusion.But mankind, with the inherited sin nature through Adam's sin, is subject to confusion and every evil work.

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

The first part how does that relate to transgender (specifically)?
The second, is discrimination a part of the christian faith?

yeshuaslavejeff · Feb 2, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
is discrimination a part of the christian faith?

tangent of sorts: Do you discriminate (tell the difference) between a red light (stop) and green light (go) at an intersection ?

What is the attitude towards transgender people in the Christian Church?

You can't steal my joy

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You can't steal my joy

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Look! Its like the Nothing never was.

You can't steal my joy

Saved by the blood of the Lamb

Look! Its like the Nothing never was.

I live by faith in the Son of God.

I live by faith in the Son of God.

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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I live by faith in the Son of God.

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simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

You can't steal my joy

Look! Its like the Nothing never was.

Look! Its like the Nothing never was.

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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