Mississippi honors Robert E. Lee on Martin Luther King Jr. Day, which is ridiculous and should stop

I'll sum up all of the opposition's talking points in a few quick bullet-points...

- It's about heritage
- Why are you trying to erase history????
- It's about states' rights

Now that those nonsensical assertions are out of the way, back in reality...

We know that this is just another one of those things that's a thinly veiled jab at black people by defiant southerners who want to make their opinions on certain matters known, but want to be just vague enough that they can play the "imply then deny" game when called out for it.

History books and civil war museums are replete with historical facts, information, and writings about (and from) the main players in the civil war and the confederacy. The fact that they raced to put up statues of those guys, and it just happened to be that most were put up in the few years following civil rights legislation from the federal government, is more than just a coincidence.

Preserving a battle site is preserving history, keeping confederate iconography in war museums is history, keeping a detailed account of the confederacy, civil war, and prominent confederate figures in the national history museums are valid forms of history preservation.

Propping up a statue of Confederate general in a public park in a mostly black neighborhood in the South in the 1940's (thus making them pay for it via taxation) has nothing to do with history preservation...neither does building a new high school in Georgia in the 1980's and naming it after Jefferson Davis. Those were entirely about throwing salt in fresh wounds and letting everyone know where they stand on "certain" issues and people.

People love to act intentionally naive when it comes to making the distinctions between "history preservation" and "showing reverence".

The reality here is, there's no reason why tax dollars should be used to honor people who were horrible men who took part in one of the most horrible institutions this country has ever seen.

Anyone who supports the confederacy is either a racist themselves, or is intentionally playing dumb and simply taking the pro-confederate stance simply to oppose their political rivals. (IE: "those darn liberals want that stuff taken down, so I need to find a reason...any old reason...for why we should keep it because we can't let them be right!")

Robert E. Lee was a fine gentleman and a great general who made the mistake of supporting an immoral cause.

Rep. Kabir Karriem, D-Columbus, and other lawmakers are currently championing a bill that would allow Lee’s birthday to be observed on the fourth Monday of January.

I found it interesting in your link that the Democrats are championing the bill.

But yes, it is ridiculous to celebrate oath on the same day.

I wonder; did Robert E. Lee ever set foot in Mississippi?

SummerMadness said:

Rather than fight people to get rid of a holiday, let them have a holiday and simply move it to another day. The main reason the day is shared is a backhanded attack on the Civil Rights Movement, so moving the day is a win regardless of whether it remains in the future or not.

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Agree

Robert E. Lee was a Southern hero who fought bravely for his country and his people. Though I am not a Southerner, I think it is vital to respect and honor his legacy. Those who forget the heroes of the past will have no future.

Creech said:

Robert E. Lee was a Southern hero who fought bravely for his country and his people. Though I am not a Southerner, I think it is vital to respect and honor his legacy. Those who forget the heroes of the past will have no future.

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The Confederacy actually represented a minority of southerners. That's one of the reasons it lost the war. The Confederacy was dependent on a feudalist and un-democratic system, whereas the Union represented the modern nation-state and was capable of mobilizing more human beings and resources.

The values that Lee fought for were considered retrograde in most of the civilized world, even in his day. It's one reason Britain never could bring itself to support the Confederacy, even though there was alot of sympathy among the Tory aristocracy.

Until America can face up to these realities, we will never begin to move beyond the ghosts of the Confederacy.

FireDragon76 said:

The Confederacy actually represented a minority of southerners. That's one of the reasons it lost the war. The Confederacy was dependent on a feudalist and un-democratic system, whereas the Union represented the modern nation-state and was capable of mobilizing more human beings and resources.

The values that Lee fought for were considered retrograde in most of the civilized world, even in his day. It's one reason Britain never could bring itself to support the Confederacy, even though there was alot of sympathy among the Tory aristocracy.

Until America can face up to these realities, we will never begin to move beyond the ghosts of the Confederacy.

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The Confederacy represented a minority of Southerners? Certainly it had the huge support of White Southerners.

It lost literally because of numbers. The North was industrialized and had a significantly large population, while the South was agrarian. That is really it. The South despite being largely without major industrialization with still an economic powerhouse, but their type of economic powerhouse didn't suite a prolonged war.

Also, modern values are in constant flux, even year by year, and in many cases for the negative. It is very true though that the South maintained a far different civilization structure that they wanted to preserve.

But I don't think anything in your post would cause one to move beyond the 'ghosts' of the Confederacy. The Confederacy, and the South in general, should not only 'historically remember' their Confederate past, but actively honor and admire their Confederate heroes.

SummerMadness said:

We don't need a holiday or statue to remember who he was.

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I don't think its simply about 'remembering' but actively honoring them and giving them immense respect and admiration as heroes of their people.

Creech said:

I don't think its simply about 'remembering' but actively honoring them and giving them immense respect and admiration as heroes of their people.

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That's not a good reason to celebrate someone...

Hitler had a lot of support among his people at one point. Is that a good reason to "honor" him and turn a blind eye to the horrible things he supported? A lot of terrible people throughout history were "heroes" to their fans. That doesn't make them a person worth honoring.

Some edgelord probably thought that was cute.

Creech said:

The Confederacy represented a minority of Southerners? Certainly it had the huge support of White Southerners.

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It was far from unanimous. Desertions were high in the Confederate army, and dissent among the civilian population was not unknown, even if it was suppressed by Davis' repressive regime. Swamplands were often hangouts for Unionist rebels or those who just wanted to stay out of a rich man's war. Ethnic minorities, like Germans in Texas, often tried to stay out of the war and were persecuted as a result. But those were written out of many canonical histories of the period, following the war. The reality is not unknown to serious historians.

Southerns have a choice about what kind of history we tell to ourselves and our children. If it's a romanticized past, or reality.

ThatRobGuy said:

That's not a good reason to celebrate someone...

Hitler had a lot of support among his people at one point. Is that a good reason to "honor" him and turn a blind eye to the horrible things he supported? A lot of terrible people throughout history were "heroes" to their fans. That doesn't make them a person worth honoring.

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The German people no longer see him as a hero. However, most of those who are disrespecting and slandering the name of gentlemen like Lee are usually not Southerners but aliens to that culture and group of people. Who are we to tell Southerners who their heroes should or should not be? It's plain silly.

FireDragon76 said:

It was far from unanimous. Desertions were high in the Confederate army, and dissent among the civilian population was not unknown, even if it was suppressed by Davis' repressive regime. Swamplands were often hangouts for Unionist rebels or those who just wanted to stay out of a rich man's war. Ethnic minorities, like Germans in Texas, often tried to stay out of the war and were persecuted as a result. But those were written out of many canonical histories of the period, following the war. The reality is not unknown to serious historians.

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Saying support was far from unanimous is quite different from saying the Confederacy represented a minority of Southerners, and I think any army being defeated militarily will tend to have more deserters.

I do not think anything in your post justifies the fact that the Confederacy was an institution representing the overwhelming majority of Southerners. Exceptions don't become the rule, they prove the rule!

One could point to Northern copperheads and other similar groups and say most Northerners didn't support the Union and the war, but I don't believe one could claim that from the evidence.

We can remember Lee as a great military leader, but the cult of devotion that surrounds him is a relic of a romanticized past.

It was Robert E. Lee day in parts of the South before M. L. King was honored with a holiday.

Albion said:

It was Robert E. Lee day in parts of the South before M. L. King was honored with a holiday.

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Was it on this day?

TerranceL said:

Was it on this day?

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Lee's actual birthday was Jan 19th. When Congress created MLK day as the 3rd Monday, several Southern states moved to celebrate them together.

And so, rather than adopting a separate MLK Day, Arkansas, Alabama, and Mississippi packaged it with a holiday they already celebrated—the anniversary of Robert E. Lee’s birthday on January 19.

Virginia did this too, albeit with a twist. Because it already had a holiday that jointly commemorated Lee and Confederate General Stonewall Jackson, Virginia celebrated a weird hybrid called Lee-Jackson-King Day

SummerMadness said:

Rather than fight people to get rid of a holiday, let them have a holiday and simply move it to another day. The main reason the day is shared is a backhanded attack on the Civil Rights Movement, so moving the day is a win regardless of whether it remains in the future or not.

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Unless the backhanded attack is the reason for the season, so to speak. I they move the holiday, would they bother celebrating it at all?