Baby Cottontail
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I do believe it.I can understand why you would come to that conclusion. You should believe it unless you are shown otherwise.
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Thank you. I do believe it.I can understand why you would come to that conclusion. You should believe it unless you are shown otherwise.
I see. That makes sense. But, how does the Trinity work? I don't quite fully understand the trinity.
You assume that Jehovah = only the Father. You are using that assumption to claim that Jesus can't be Jehovah. Of course, from that perspective, that would be the only conclusion to make.That's impossible.
Jehovah said HE is the source of Jesus' words, and Jesus says that his Father, (his God), is the source of the words he spoke. Jesus makes it even MORE clear, when he states that he is NOT the source of the words.
The theory you express isn't Scriptural, and contradicts God's creation.
I heard that "echad" could mean a plural unity -- a united one. I don't know Hebrew, so I'm only telling you what I have heard.There is absolutely no awareness in the OT that God is trine. On the contrary, the OT states that God is Echad, One.
There is absolutely no awareness in the OT that God is triune. On the contrary, the OT states that God is Echad, One.
No, echad simply means one. Hear O Israel, the LORD your God the LORD is ONE.I heard that "echad" could mean a plural unity -- a united one. I don't know Hebrew, so I'm only telling you what I have heard.
None of these indicates a plural God. None. You are reading INTO the Tanach what you know as a Christian.That is not actually true. Isa 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:‘I am the First and I am the Last;Besides Me there is no God. The King of Israel and his Redeemer then the I am the First and I am the Last, back to Besides Me there is no God. Surely 2 of Godhead here in union with one another. And as early as Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And there are quite a few more.
Even if it means only a single "one," then that does nothing to disprove the Trinity. Since we don't believe in three Gods, God would still be One, as He would still be one God.No, echad simply means one. Hear O Israel, the LORD your God the LORD is ONE.
That's impossible.
Jehovah said HE is the source of Jesus' words, and Jesus says that his Father, (his God), is the source of the words he spoke. Jesus makes it even MORE clear, when he states that he is NOT the source of the words.
The theory you express isn't Scriptural, and contradicts God's creation.
None of these indicates a plural God. None. You are reading INTO the Tanach what you know as a Christian.
None of these indicates a plural God. None. You are reading INTO the Tanach what you know as a Christian.
I heard that "echad" could mean a plural unity -- a united one. I don't know Hebrew, so I'm only telling you what I have heard.
You are so right on, that is the requirement of faith, that one must believe to be saved, Rom 10:9-13 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame. 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.You keep says it is "impossible" that Jesus Christ is also YAHWEH? Is this based on the Teaching of the Holy Bible, or your personal theology? In Genesis 24:19, we have TWO Persons Who are called YAHWEH (One was on earth with Abraham, see chapter 18). Care to explain this? In the Old Testament prophecy of John the Baptist, as the "Forerunner" to Jesus Christ (Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 4:5-6), where John is spoken of going before YAHWEH. In the Gospels, Matthew 3:3, Luke 1:16-18, etc, this fulfillment is in Jesus Christ, Who is this "YAHWEH" Who was to come. Compare Malachi 4:5-6, with Luke 1:76, and you will very clearly see that Jesus Christ is YAHWEH/JEHOVAH. This, my friend is the plain teaching of the Holy Bible!
You are so right on, that is the requirement of faith, that one must believe to be saved, Rom 10:9-13 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame. 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Thanks for the clarification. I don't know the biblical languages. I just hear what other people say that are more knowledgable than I.You heard wrong. "echad", like the Greek "hen" in John 10:30, is "singular neuter", which is speaking of the "Unity of Essence", as to the "Being of the Godhead". In John 10:30, "We are", is the masculine plural, denoting plurality of Persons, "Father" and "I", Jesus Christ.
Of course. The more than 5000 times it is used in the OT, makes it VERY clear, it is Elohiym's personal name.You assume that Jehovah = only the Father.
I don't deny that Jehovah is God's name in the OT.Of course. The more than 5000 times it is used in the OT, makes it VERY clear, it is Elohiym's personal name.
Ex 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Jehovah is The supreme being, the Creator, and Jesus is His servant;
Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth. 4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house. 8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.
No I am not a Jehovah's Witness. Their movement split from us in the 1800's. I am a member of the Church of God, which the Catholics split from beginning in apostolic times, and then began persecuting my brothers and sisters. Due to the fact that history is written by the victors, you will ONLY find my doctrines being CLEARLY, and SIMPLY stated in the New Testament, and being PREACHED in EVERY SERMON IN THE BOOK OF ACTS.I don't deny that Jehovah is God's name in the OT.
However, I don't limit that name to just that of the Father. I agree that Jehovah is the Supreme Being, and the Creator.
However, I believe that Jesus is also Jehovah. I also believe that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah. One God. One Being.
Jesus is not some other Being. He is Jehovah.
Jesus is not merely a Servant.
Dartman, are you a Jehovah's Witness?
Thanks for answering my question.No I am not a Jehovah's Witness. Their movement split from us in the 1800's. I am a member of the Church of God, which the Catholics split from beginning in apostolic times, and then began persecuting my brothers and sisters. Due to the fact that history is written by the victors, you will ONLY find my doctrines being CLEARLY, and SIMPLY stated in the New Testament, and being PREACHED in EVERY SERMON IN THE BOOK OF ACTS.
You will find my doctrines being argued AGAINST by the so called "Church Fathers", while you will find my doctrines being restated in the so called "Apostolic Creed".
And you will find those who share my beliefs listed as "heretics" being burned, stoned, hung, excommunicated, etc., by the "mainstream" Churches.
The theory you expound above is utterly ludicrous.
There is NO WAY two beings can be the same being!
This ludicrous theory defies God's creation we can see around us every day, and which Paul instructs us to see as a witness of God's attributes! (Rom 1:20)
This ludicrous theory defies the words of Jesus, the apostles, Jehovah and all His holy prophets, that Jesus' GOD is "the ONLY true God", that "there is but ONE God ... THE FATHER", that "there is ONE God, and ONE mediator BETWEEN God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus!!
So, in the clear, obvious, verifiable face of STATED Scripture, and in the clear, obvious, verifiable face of REALITY .... you are going to need to provide OUTSTANDING, CLEAR and SIMPLE statements of Scripture to offset this VAST mountain of proof ..... and you've got a tiny handful of texts taken out of context, that simply NEVER .... EVER state your doctrine.
That's like saying DEER is plural. DEER can be singular or plural. Elohim can mean gods (plural) or it can mean God (singular, formal).The Hebrew for God is "elohim", which is masculine, PLURAL.