Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

[RaymondG]

Jesus is YHWH/Jehovah
The Father is YHWH/Jehovah
The Holy Spirit is YHWH/Jehovah

One God in three Persons.

Jesus is not the Father.
The Father is not Jesus.
Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
Jesus is not the Father.

And I thought His yoke was easy and burden light. Am I suppose to remember all that you just said or is it ok to just know Christ and him crucified until He reveals all to me?

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Utterly impossible.
Jehovah/YHVH God authorizes us to use reality as a test of truth, and the convoluted, contradictory reasoning that both Jesus and his God are Jehovah is a perfect example of the impossibility of the trinity.

What makes it impossible?

 

[Neostarwcc]

@Dartman I will reply to this thread later. I am on my cellphone right now.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Why is it assumed that the word becoming flesh is referring to the birth of Jesus?

What do you think it means?

 

[RaymondG]

What do you think it means?

"Knowing no other alternative" and "Being told this one alternative so many times I just went along with it" and "It just makes sense in my mind" are all good reasons for going with this idea. I see nothing wrong with it. I'll withhold my thoughts for after the person I was talking to answers.

 

[RGW00]

I believe he was, and is the God Yahweh, and the God from Genesis and all of the other OT. Why? Several reasons. For one, scripture says so. John 1:1-3, John 1:18, John 5:37, John 6:46 states:

John 1:1-3,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


John 1:18,

"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

John 5:37,

"And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,"

John 6:46,

"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father."


So we learn from these four verses that Jesus is God, who was always with God the Father, and he created everything we see along with the Father. We also learn that nobody has ever seen God except for Jesus. Even Jesus himself states that nobody has seen God the Father but him. But wait! Adam and Eve saw God! Isaiah saw God! Ezekiel saw God! Countless people of the OT saw God! So, either Jesus is lying or Jesus is stating that he is the mighty Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament that created the heavens and the Earth and all we see around us. The Jews knew what Jesus was saying when he stated these things along with when he said in John 8:58:

John 8:58,

"Before Abraham was born, I am!"

To which the Jews tried to stone him for because God called himself "I am" in Exodus 3:14.

Exodus 3:14

"God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

So what do you think? Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament? Or was Jesus just plain a God along with the Father and God the Father is the God of the OT? Tell me what you think. I'm curious.

They were, always was, and still are the same. God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit: The Trinity. God created man in His own image, and He had said "Let's create man in our own image." This indicates He wasn't just making everything into being on His own, He had someone their with Him and that was Jesus. Jesus is the human form of God, and we won't truly understand what is different about the two until we get to Heaven. I look at it like a completely different dimension, where rules and physics are altered, and supernatural happenings appear before you: this is why it is so hard to understand why they are the same.

In our definition of human and God, they are the same. However, they could be completely different in God's eyes. Just know this, that it says in the Bible that God and Jesus are one and the same, Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, and He prophesied about bringing Himself, a Savior, in human form.

Sure, "No one gets to the Father, except through me." Jesus said this. But He means that if you understand that He came and died for our sins in human form, took on the name of Jesus, and confess your sins to Him, then you will understand God and His great works.

If you notice, when Jesus is alive on Earth, there is hardly any words from God Himself in the Bible. Everything is in red meaning that these are the words of Jesus Christ. This is another piece of evidence that Jesus was God on Earth. For He was still doing miracles, but the difference is He is in the form of a human, for us to understand all of His works in our own being.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

And I thought His yoke was easy and burden light. Am I suppose to remember all that you just said or is it ok to just know Christ and him crucified until He reveals all to me?

Of course you should know Christ and Him crucified, and it would be better if the Holy Spirit were to reveal His truth to you.

No one can force you to accept a doctrine until you are ready. However, I do think it is important for you to look into because this is part of what has been considered orthodox Christianity by most Christians for hundreds of years.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

"Knowing no other alternative" and "Being told this one alternative so many times I just went along with it" and "It just makes sense in my mind" are all good reasons for going with this idea. I see nothing wrong with it. I'll withhold my thoughts for after the person I was talking to answers.

Look at John chapter 1 and read verses 1 through 18. Pay special attention to verse 14. It's the context of that passage that suggests that the Word is Jesus, and that "became flesh" is talking about the Word taking on the human nature (being born into the world as a human baby.)

 

[redleghunter]

Right, there is only one God. But yet, God is a trinity of three persons. How can that be? That's one question that I've been asking myself ever since I became a Christian. It got me (and a friend of mine) to wonder if Christianity really is the "right" religion and to have doubt. I have faith in Jesus Christ and that is what matters but, it makes you question Christianity at the same time.

Jesus Christ is the very "center" of the Trinity. You have the correct focus.

 

[RaymondG]

Of course you should know Christ and Him crucified, and it would be better if the Holy Spirit were to reveal His truth to you.

No one can force you to accept a doctrine until you are ready. However, I do think it is important for you to look into because this is part of what has been considered orthodox Christianity by most Christians for hundreds of years.

The Truth is Known, not accepted.....It IS. But I encourage you to hold to the doctrine you have accepted until you feel you should do otherwise.

 

[redleghunter]

" I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

What's your point?

 

[RaymondG]

Look at John chapter 1 and read verses 1 through 18. Pay special attention to verse 14. It's the context of that passage that suggests that the Word is Jesus, and that "became flesh" is talking about the Word taking on the human nature (being born into the world as a human baby.)

I can understand why you would come to that conclusion. You should believe it unless you are shown otherwise.

 

[RaymondG]

What's your point?

I am not wise enough to debate with you. If you want a challenge, you have to pick someone else.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Jesus Christ is the very "center" of the Trinity. You have the correct focus.

I see. That makes sense. But, how does the Trinity work? I don't quite fully understand the trinity.

 

[redleghunter]

I see. That makes sense. But, how does the Trinity work? I don't quite fully understand the trinity.

No one does. We have to go with what God has revealed of Himself. In my first post here I laid out the truths God revealed to us.

Sometimes these Irish twins make sense:

 

[redleghunter]

I am not wise enough to debate with you. If you want a challenge, you have to pick someone else.

Whoa just wanted to know why you chose those verses.

The first one from Isaiah 45:7 is usually used by people trying to prove God created evil.

 

[Neostarwcc]

No one does. We have to go with what God has revealed of Himself. In my first post here I laid out the truths God revealed to us.

Sometimes these Irish twins make sense:

Oh, I see. I didn't know that nobody fully understands the Trinity. That makes me feel better then.

 

[Anguspure]

I believe he was, and is the God Yahweh, and the God from Genesis and all of the other OT. Why? Several reasons. For one, scripture says so. John 1:1-3, John 1:18, John 5:37, John 6:46 states:

John 1:1-3,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


John 1:18,

"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

John 5:37,

"And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,"

John 6:46,

"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father."


So we learn from these four verses that Jesus is God, who was always with God the Father, and he created everything we see along with the Father. We also learn that nobody has ever seen God except for Jesus. Even Jesus himself states that nobody has seen God the Father but him. But wait! Adam and Eve saw God! Isaiah saw God! Ezekiel saw God! Countless people of the OT saw God! So, either Jesus is lying or Jesus is stating that he is the mighty Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament that created the heavens and the Earth and all we see around us. The Jews knew what Jesus was saying when he stated these things along with when he said in John 8:58:

John 8:58,

"Before Abraham was born, I am!"

To which the Jews tried to stone him for because God called himself "I am" in Exodus 3:14.

Exodus 3:14

"God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

So what do you think? Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament? Or was Jesus just plain a God along with the Father and God the Father is the God of the OT? Tell me what you think. I'm curious.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
If we are to believe the Apostles of Jesus then He is certainly who He claimed to be: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"

 

[Meowzltov]

There is absolutely no awareness in the OT that God is trine. On the contrary, the OT states that God is Echad, One.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

The Truth is Known, not accepted.....It IS. But I encourage you to hold to the doctrine you have accepted until you feel you should do otherwise.

Thanks. I am confident in my beliefs on this.