Who Is Jesus?

dreadnought · Sep 26, 2017

Baby Cottontail said:
And I believe that the Holy Spirit is YHWH, just as Jesus is YHWH, and the Father is YHWH, and that He is a Person.

John 14:16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

Jesus says that the Holy Spirit is "another" that can be given to us by the Father.

I too believe that the Holy Spirit is YHWH. But not a different person than Jesus and the Father, but the same person as Jesus and the Father. As I said, I believe the Holy Spirit is what we call God, the Father, when he speaks to us.

dreadnought · Sep 26, 2017

Baby Cottontail said:
John 14:26 (NASB)
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."

Jesus wanted to use language that we would understand, perhaps. He was more concerned with making us understand what was to happen, than he was that we would understand exactly who he was.

Baby Cottontail · Sep 26, 2017

dreadnought said:
As far as I know, United Methodists generally believe as i do.

You've been misinformed then.

The Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church - The United Methodist Church
Article I — Of Faith in the Holy Trinity
There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things, both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Baby Cottontail · Sep 26, 2017

dreadnought said:
Jesus wanted to use language that we would understand, perhaps. He was more concerned with making us understand what was to happen, than he was that we would understand exactly who he was.

It seems that Jesus is trying to help people understand the Holy Spirit, and yes, what is about to happen.

John 15:26 (NASB)
"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,"

According to Jesus, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. He is not the Father.

SkyWriting · Sep 26, 2017

dreadnought said:
I can't believe God is three beings.

Jesus did pray to the Father, while not in front of others, and I consider him well versed.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 26, 2017

SkyWriting said:
Jesus did pray to the Father, while not in front of others, and I consider him well versed.

It seems Jesus is still with the Disciples when He prays to the Father in John 17 and this just before they went to the Garden where Judas came with soldiers to have Him arrested..

John 18 ASV

John 16:
29 Then Jesus’ disciples said, “Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. 30 Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.”
John 17:
1 These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that the Son may glorify thee:"
John 18:
1 When He had finished praying, Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it.

Baby Cottontail · Sep 27, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
It seems Jesus is still with the Disciples when He prays to the Father in John 17 and this just before they went to the Garden where Judas came with soldiers to have Him arrested..

John 18 ASV

John 16:
29 Then Jesus’ disciples said, “Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. 30 Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.”
John 17:
1 These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that the Son may glorify thee:"
John 18:
1 When He had finished praying, Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it.

True. However, there are times when Jesus went away by Himself to pray.

Matthew 14:23 (NASB)
After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was evening, He was there alone.

Mark 1:35 (NASB)
In the early morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house, and went away to a secluded place, and was praying there.

Mark 6:46 (NASB)
After bidding them farewell, He left for the mountain to pray.

Luke 5:16 (NASB)
But Jesus Himself would often slip away to the wilderness and pray.

SkyWriting · Sep 27, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
It seems Jesus is still with the Disciples when He prays to the Father in John 17 and this just before they went to the Garden where Judas came with soldiers to have Him arrested..

Yes and at other times.
He is shown to pray: alone (Mt 14:23)(Mk 1:35)(Lk 9:18)(Lk 22:39-41

JLB777 · Sep 27, 2017

dreadnought said:
There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?

Jesus is the only Begotten Son.

The Son of God is God.

I am a human being.
My son is a human being.

God the Son became flesh.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7

these three are one.

JLB

GosDontez · Sep 27, 2017

Baby Cottontail said:
I can tell you which view is considered to be Christian orthodoxy, and has been for years, and years.

Most mainline denominations and many non-denominational churches would agree with the view that there is one God who is triune. There are three Persons in the Deity, and these three Persons are one God and one Being. (See my post earlier that contains the Athanasian Creed to see exactly how the church defined this concept.)

In fact, it used to be that anyone who disagreed with this view was called a heretic, and any view that did not agree with it was called heresy.

Now, things are a lot more lenient, and doctrine is not taught as carefully, and even leaders in churches are disagreeing with the historic creeds of the church. You will get people who identify as Christian who hold to any of the four views that I listed before.

If you are confused about it, then I would suggest talking to your pastor to find out what your church teaches. Look at Scripture, and pray.

I strongly believe that only one of these four viewpoints is fully supported in Scripture. Each of the other ones has verses that can be used in support of it, but do not take into account all of Scripture. I believe that correct viewpoint to be the orthodox viewpoint as outlined in the Athanasian Creed.

Well, that's the thing about beliefs. They are so powerful that they often masquerade as knowledge.

And if there is one thing we all have....it's belief.

So I will let God be the Judge in the end, because humans often confuse me on matters pertaining to Him.

dreadnought · Sep 27, 2017

Baby Cottontail said:
You've been misinformed then.

The Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church - The United Methodist Church
Article I — Of Faith in the Holy Trinity
There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things, both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

It all depends on how you interpret those words. You and I read the words and attach different meanings. I've gone to church for many years and the topic never comes up.

dreadnought · Sep 27, 2017

Baby Cottontail said:
It seems that Jesus is trying to help people understand the Holy Spirit, and yes, what is about to happen.

John 15:26 (NASB)
"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,"

According to Jesus, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. He is not the Father.

We aren't going to agree on this. Maybe in twenty years we will.

Jesus had a lot of important things to teach us. Are you studying those things?

dreadnought · Sep 27, 2017

SkyWriting said:
Jesus did pray to the Father, while not in front of others, and I consider him well versed.

Well, someone was aware that he did it. Otherwise, how could someone have written about it?

dreadnought · Sep 27, 2017

JLB777 said:
Jesus is the only Begotten Son.

The Son of God is God.

I am a human being.
My son is a human being.

God the Son became flesh.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7

these three are one.

JLB

One person or three who are unified?

JLB777 · Sep 27, 2017

dreadnought said:
One person or three who are unified?

These three are one.

Unified is not mentioned.

Person is not mentioned.

Simply read what the scripture says.

For there are three that bear witness.

This scripture does not say there are one that bear witness.

Every truth is established on the testimony of two or three who bear witness.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7

these three are one.
For there are three that bear witness

JLB

wilts43 · Sep 27, 2017

Aimz said:
The only redeemer of God’s elect is our Lord Jesus Christ who being the eternal Son of God became man and so was and continues to be God and man in two distinct natures and one person forever.

This doctrine (Hypostatic Union) was promulgated at the Council of Chalcedon 451AD.
This was necessary, precisely because it is not proven by scriptural texts alone. That's why alternative interpretations abounded. e.g. Eutychianism, Appollinarianism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism, Dyophysitism & Miaphysitism.
These alternative popular interpretations were adjudged "heresies" solely on the apostolic authority of Catholic Bishops Councils.
If you don't accept the Apostolic-Succesion (& authority) of Catholic bishops there is no need, and no logic, to adopt their judgements on such doctrines.
And indeed that's why "Me-&-my-Bible"-Christians must eventually & logically revisit all these heresies.
And, without Apostolic authority, the only answers to these questions are
(1) 30,000 Protestant denominations. or
(2)An "It doesn't really matter what we believe" attitude.

Pools · Sep 27, 2017

Jesus was a Jewish rabbi, who the Jewish people back then thought to be their awaited Messiah as described in the Old Testament.

That's it. That's who Jesus is.

Sibyl · Sep 27, 2017

dreadnought said:
There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?

If Mary bore a son then he was born a man (a human). If God wanted to appear
on earth as a man then he could just appear without all of the drama of childbirth.
The Bible is a weapon created by men, who want to be holy, to subjugate other men
(who need some one to interpret the bible for them) and lead them to perdition.
Sibyl.

dreadnought · Sep 27, 2017

JLB777 said:
These three are one.

Unified is not mentioned.

Person is not mentioned.

Simply read what the scripture says.

For there are three that bear witness.

This scripture does not say there are one that bear witness.

Every truth is established on the testimony of two or three who bear witness.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7

these three are one.

For there are three that bear witness

JLB

Well, I pray to one God, not three.

dreadnought · Sep 27, 2017

Sibyl said:
If Mary bore a son then he was born a man (a human). If God wanted to appear
on earth as a man then he could just appear without all of the drama of childbirth.
The Bible is a weapon created by men, who want to be holy, to subjugate other men
(who need some one to interpret the bible for them) and lead them to perdition.
Sibyl.

God could do whatever he wanted for whatever reason he had.

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