Need help, seriously questioning.

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Serving Zion

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I would like to recommend this post for you, as it has a really soft, thorough and educational tone:
Why are Christians so incredibly deceived about scripture?

This one provides more explanation of why animal sacrifices were initiated, and how they came to be ineffective (Hebrews 10:4):
Not jewish by the Halacka - Should I convert to Christianity?

This one is a pretty succinct statement:
What is your view of atonement?

.. and while I searched for posts that I have said "atonement" in, I found these ones (in case they might be helpful too).

Feeling minimalized, want to pray
Alternative to vicarius redemption
 
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dougangel

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Really, the Bible/Torah is pretty clear that the Law and the covenant were forever. Of course the temple rituals cannot be continued until the third temple is built:

Good on you for searching for the truth.

hebrews 7
11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:

“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”
22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews 8New International Version (NIV)
The High Priest of a New Covenant
Hebrews 8
Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.
3 Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4 If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”[a] 6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.


This is taken from Jer. 31:31-34 God found fault with the people and declared there would be a New covenant.

Jesus fulfilled (completed) the law of Moses so the law is everlasting through Christ

I have to go for a few hours. I would like to answer your other comment later.
 
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Tolworth John

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dougangel

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Really, the Bible/Torah is pretty clear that the Law and the covenant were forever. Of course the temple rituals cannot be continued until the third temple is built:

1. The apostle Paul, a Jew said, "I MYSELF AM NOT UNDER THE LAW" (1 Cor. 9:20).
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

2. "ALL WHO RELY ON OBSERVING THE (mosaic) LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE" (Gal. 3:10).

3. "CHRIST REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE (mosaic) LAW" (Gal. 3:13).

4. "NOW THAT (Christian faith) FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE (Mosaic )LAW" (Gal. 3:25).


5. "GENTLES...DO NOT HAVE THE LAW...THEY DO NOT HAVE THE LAW" (Rom. 2:14) (Gentiles never have and never will have the Law.)


8. "WE HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE LAW SO THAT WE SERVE IN THE NEW WAY OF THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLD WAY OF THE WRITTEN CODE" (Rom. 7:6).

Romans 8:2 (NIV) because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

There is a law of the spirit. This is the New testament.

9. "CHRIST IS THE END OF THE (mosaic) LAW ... FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES" (Rom. 10:4).

10. THE (mosaic) LAW IS "THE MINISTRY OF DEATH...[AND] CONDEMNATION" (2 Cor. 3:7 & 9).
 
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Dirk1540

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Several years ago I started listening to Rabbi Tovia Singer and his defense of Judaism for Jewish people as a counter missionary. The obvious implications for someone that is not Jewish, as I am not, is that the lecture series makes one question one's belief in Jesus as the Messiah. For various reasons I stopped pursuing the track at the time, but recently started again. At this point my faith in Christ is seriously lacking, almost to apostasy. Right now I am more on the thinking that Jesus may not have been the Messiah, but rather a Prophet whose teachings were meant to get the Jewish people back on track but after his crucifixion were hijacked by the Romans/Pagans and we now have Christianity taking many Pagan traditions and adding to the infancy narrative to prove a point from the Greco-Roman perspective....

Has anyone listened to these lectures or read similar information? There is a lot to write about, but essentially it boils down to:
1. Jesus could not be the Messiah (and many reasons are given)
2. It is possible that the OT is true while the NT is not - and many flaws of the NT are pointed out.
3. If Judaism was the true religion up until the crucifixion and resurrection, then it stands to reason that Judaism would be the "true" religion still if Jesus was not the Messiah and Christianity is not true.
4. There are many scriptures that point to the Law of Moses not ever changing, which is opposed to Paul's teachings. However, this could still work on a MJ level.
5. Many of the "messianic" verses pointing to Jesus as the Messiah are misinterpreted on purpose or on accident by Christians in the OT.

I can link to some of the audio or video if you like, but each lecture is long - around 75 minutes.
It's always nice to embrace the arguments of those that you disagree with, that's what intelligent people do.

Now do yourself a favor and treat yourself to the best scholar for the opposite position, Dr Michael Brown's 5 part volume 'Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus'...

https://www.amazon.com/Answering-Je...keywords=answering+jewish+objections+to+jesus

Or the DVD version Countering the Counter Missionaries...

Countering the Counter-Missionaries [10 DVD set]

Having gone through the mental tug of war you'll come out the other end with a greater appreciation that Jesus is the Messiah.
 
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dougangel

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Which is a problem I struggle with...either he is a Prophet and his words and teachings were tampered with, he was G-d incarnate, or he was neither....and why did it take another 30 or so years for the temple to be destroyed after Jesus was crucified?

It is interesting that, prior to the Messiah's crucifixion in 30 A. D., the Romans had taken away the Sanhedrin's authority to execute criminals (See Jn.18:31; Talmud Sanh.1:1,7:2). The last judgement that the Sanhedrin made from the Temple was to sentence the Messiah and Creator of humanity to death. From 30 A.D. to the time of this writing no Sanhedrin has officiated from a Temple in Jerusalem. With the departure of the Sanhedrin from the Chamber of Hewn Stones, the law no longer went forth from the Temple.

Forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the Sanhedrin was banished from their official residence to the trading station on the Temple Mount (Shabbat 15a), and eventually off the Mount altogether.

40 YEARS OF WARNINGS

Many wonder why God waited 40 years after Jesus' death and resurrection to fulfill his prophecy about the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem. First, the number 40 in the Bible is symbolic of trial, testing, and punishment. Second, waiting 40 years shows God's patience in allowing the Jews time to repent and turn back to him with proper behavior and worship so that he could bless them instead of punishing them.
Although the Temple and city were not destroyed until 70 A.D., the supernatural events that occurred on the day the Messiah was murdered were only a few of the many warnings given to the Jewish people prior to the destruction of their beloved Temple and city. On the Day of Atonement in 30 A.D. a series of two consecutive warnings that were repeated on this day for another 39 years began.

Some scholars say it was the 40 years that Israel was in the desert before going into Canaan, allowed the 40 years grace before the destruction of Jerusalem and the diaspora is significant.
 
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tampasteve

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Jesus had no earthly father, He came to know Yahweh as His legitimate heavenly father. This gave Him a unique faith that no other person has ever had, and a unique role in creation that no other person ever can have. Upon His baptism, The Holy Spirit settled upon Him. It is fair to view this as the beginning of His covenant whereby He laid down His life (formerly a carpenter) and took upon Himself to perform Messianic duty. Jesus says similarly to us "whoever wants to be my disciple must lay down his life, take up his cross and come after me".

I sense that you might have been somewhat impacted by a misleading doctrine that has come to misrepresent the mechanism of atonement (namely "Penalty Substitution"). This has become a widespread doctrine of the apostates, and it inherently mischaracterises God as a person that is unable to forgive unless blood is shed.

It is a common cause of 'faith derailment', and I have written good material about this here before, hold that thought while I find some links to those writings.

Thank you, I think I can agree with this statement. The sin atonement replacement theology is definitely something that I question. But if we remove this from the Christian salvation theology what are we left with? It would seem that we are left with more of a Prophet trying to renew the Mosaic Covenant...
 
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tampasteve

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The last judgement that the Sanhedrin made from the Temple was to sentence the Messiah and Creator of humanity to death.
., the supernatural events that occurred on the day the Messiah was murdered were only a few of the many warnings given to the Jewish people prior to the destruction of their beloved Temple and city. On the Day of Atonement in 30 A.D. a series of two consecutive warnings that were repeated on this day for another 39 years began.
Can you cite these statements? I am lacking to find any evidence of them. We know there was an earthquake around the year of the crucifixion, but we do not know the year or other evidence that would connect it with the crucifixion.
 
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tampasteve

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I am a Judaic Christian if you would like a third point of view. Judaic means, pertaining to Judaism.
Could you explain what a Judaic Christian is?
 
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tampasteve

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1. The apostle Paul, a Jew said, "I MYSELF AM NOT UNDER THE LAW" (1 Cor. 9:20).
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

2. "ALL WHO RELY ON OBSERVING THE (mosaic) LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE" (Gal. 3:10).

3. "CHRIST REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE (mosaic) LAW" (Gal. 3:13).

4. "NOW THAT (Christian faith) FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE (Mosaic )LAW" (Gal. 3:25).


5. "GENTLES...DO NOT HAVE THE LAW...THEY DO NOT HAVE THE LAW" (Rom. 2:14) (Gentiles never have and never will have the Law.)


8. "WE HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE LAW SO THAT WE SERVE IN THE NEW WAY OF THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLD WAY OF THE WRITTEN CODE" (Rom. 7:6).

Romans 8:2 (NIV) because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

There is a law of the spirit. This is the New testament.

9. "CHRIST IS THE END OF THE (mosaic) LAW ... FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES" (Rom. 10:4).

10. THE (mosaic) LAW IS "THE MINISTRY OF DEATH...[AND] CONDEMNATION" (2 Cor. 3:7 & 9).

I appreciate you taking the time to find these scriptures, but being as they are all from the NT I cannot count them as evidence of the Law being replaced or going to be replaced by a new covenant as is typically understood by Christianity. As for Paul not being under the Law, I will not judge him for being under it or for thinking he was released from it. Since he was an Apostle that would make sense, but that requires belief in the NT and Christianity to make that jump.
 
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tampasteve

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Good on you for searching for the truth.

hebrews 7
11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:

“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”
22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews 8New International Version (NIV)
The High Priest of a New Covenant
Hebrews 8
Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.
3 Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4 If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”[a] 6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.


This is taken from Jer. 31:31-34 God found fault with the people and declared there would be a New covenant.

Jesus fulfilled (completed) the law of Moses so the law is everlasting through Christ

I have to go for a few hours. I would like to answer your other comment later.

The Melchizedek priesthood is rather easily explained away. Many commentators believe that Melchizedek passed the priesthood to Abram and Abram passed it to his descendants. When Melchizedek blessed Abram before he blessed G-d he passed the priesthood as well. Also, if Jesus represented a non-Aronic priesthood then there would be no reason for him to keep the Mosaic Law, and being the "prefect Jew" is a cornerstone of Christianity. Jesus did not claim to be a replacement for the priesthood, for the Aronic priests or Mosaic Covenant, this came later with Paul and others it woudl seem.

As for Jer. 31, in light of the other scriptures showing that the Mosaic Covenant was forever we can read that to mean that the "new covenant" is a renewal of the "old covenant" that the people would worship in mind, soul, body, and belief, not in empty gestures. We cannot isolate Jer. 31 from the previous scripture saying that the covenant would be "forever". It is either forever or it is not.
 
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Dkh587

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Yeshayah/Isaiah 53
LXX

O יהוה, who has believed our report? and to whom has the arm of יהוה been revealed?

We brought a report as of a child before him; he is as a root in a thirsty land: he has no form nor comeliness; and we saw him, but he had no form nor beauty.

But his form was ignoble, and inferior to that of the children of men; he was a man in suffering, and acquainted with the bearing of sickness, for his face is turned from us: he was dishonoured, and not esteemed.

He bears our sins, and is pained for us: yet we accounted him to be in trouble, and in suffering, and in affliction.

But he was wounded on account of our sins, and was bruised because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; andby his bruises we were healed.

All we as sheep have gone astray; every one has gone astray in his way; and יהוה gave him up for our sins.

And he, because of his affliction, opens not his mouth: he was led as a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is dumb, so he opens not his mouth.

In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken away from the earth: because of the iniquities of my people he was led to death.

And I will give the wicked for his burial, and the rich for his death; for he practised no iniquity, nor craft with his mouth.

יהוה also is pleased to purge him from his stroke. If ye can give an offering for sin, your soul shall see a long-lived seed:

יהוה also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul, to shew him light, and to form him with understanding; to justify the just one who serves many well; and he shall bear their sins.

Therefore he shall inherit many, and he shall divide the spoils of the mighty; because his soul was delivered to death: and he was numbered among the transgressors; and he bore the sins of many, and was delivered because of their iniquities.
 
  • Agree
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tampasteve

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I started listening to these last night and today....I started with his "Why do the resurrection stories disagree" and I have to say that at the moment I am not seeing a great counter argument. So far the speaker has left it as (to paraphrase) "one of the stories is incorrect, I am going to go with that the Gospels are incorrect and John is correct." and that "we have to trust the Bible, believe in the meaning, and get past the fact that some dates and parts might be wrong or conflicting".....that is not strengthening the argument for the NT as a reliable source text...

****UPDATE****
OK, perhaps I judged it too soon. I listened to the rest of that podcast and I have to say that as it developed he made some really good points. I will continue listening to the series as I think there is some good value there.
 
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~Anastasia~

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It's always nice to embrace the arguments of those that you disagree with, that's what intelligent people do.

Now do yourself a favor and treat yourself to the best scholar for the opposite position, Dr Michael Brown's 5 part volume 'Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus'...

https://www.amazon.com/Answering-Je...keywords=answering+jewish+objections+to+jesus

Or the DVD version Countering the Counter Missionaries...

Countering the Counter-Missionaries [10 DVD set]

Having gone through the mental tug of war you'll come out the other end with a greater appreciation that Jesus is the Messiah.


Great suggestion - wish I'd been thinking and had it come to mind. Mike Brown and his circle were good friends of mine and had a big part in my spiritual formation along the way.

I'd love to compare notes with him again, but rather doubt I'd really get the chance. Might have to see about looking them up though. :)
 
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tampasteve

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Yeshayah/Isaiah 53
LXX

O יהוה, who has believed our report? and to whom has the arm of יהוה been revealed?

We brought a report as of a child before him; he is as a root in a thirsty land: he has no form nor comeliness; and we saw him, but he had no form nor beauty.

But his form was ignoble, and inferior to that of the children of men; he was a man in suffering, and acquainted with the bearing of sickness, for his face is turned from us: he was dishonoured, and not esteemed.

He bears our sins, and is pained for us: yet we accounted him to be in trouble, and in suffering, and in affliction.

But he was wounded on account of our sins, and was bruised because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; andby his bruises we were healed.

All we as sheep have gone astray; every one has gone astray in his way; and יהוה gave him up for our sins.

And he, because of his affliction, opens not his mouth: he was led as a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is dumb, so he opens not his mouth.

In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken away from the earth: because of the iniquities of my people he was led to death.

And I will give the wicked for his burial, and the rich for his death; for he practised no iniquity, nor craft with his mouth.

יהוה also is pleased to purge him from his stroke. If ye can give an offering for sin, your soul shall see a long-lived seed:

יהוה also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul, to shew him light, and to form him with understanding; to justify the just one who serves many well; and he shall bear their sins.

Therefore he shall inherit many, and he shall divide the spoils of the mighty; because his soul was delivered to death: and he was numbered among the transgressors; and he bore the sins of many, and was delivered because of their iniquities.

Thank you for taking the time to write Isiah 53 out. While it is certainly possible that there is a dual prophesy in it, there is serious contention as to whether it applies to Jesus or Israel as a whole. Read in context with the rest of Isiah we are lead to believe it is about Israel and the Jewish people...read alone we come to Jesus. So, while an important text, I personally cannot rely on it to be a "capstone" to belief in Jesus.
 
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Dkh587

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Thank you for taking the time to write Isiah 53 out. While it is certainly possible that there is a dual prophesy in it, there is serious contention as to whether it applies to Jesus or Israel as a whole. Read in context with the rest of Isiah we are lead to believe it is about Israel and the Jewish people...read alone we come to Jesus. So, while an important text, I personally cannot rely on it to be a "capstone" to belief in Jesus.
It can't be about Israel because the person speaking says "for the iniquities of *my people*

My people = the Israelites

It also says "Yah gave him up for our sins"

Our sins = the sins of the Israelites

"All we as sheep have gone astray"

Who went astray? The Israelites

"He was wounded on account of our sins"

Whose sins? The Israelites.

Israel as a nation never died. There has always been a remnant that God chose through his grace to keep the nation alive, albeit small and scattered around the world.

The person in isaiah 53 clearly dies
 
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tampasteve

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It can't be about Israel because the person speaking says "for the iniquities of *my people*

My people = the Israelites

It also says "Yah gave him up for our sins"

Our sins = the sins of the Israelites

"All we as sheep have gone astray"

Who went astray? The Israelites

"He was wounded on account of our sins"

Whose sins? The Israelites.

Israel as a nation never died. There has always been a remnant that God chose through his grace to keep the nation alive, albeit small and scattered around the world.

The person in isaiah 53 clearly dies

Actually while the people of Israel never were eliminated, the nation was several times, and was only reformed recently. Israel as a people never died, true. One must read Isaiah as a whole, not lift out the particular chapter in question.

But you, O Israel, My servant, Jacob, you whom I have chosen, offspring of Abraham who loved Me…and to whom I shall say: ‘You are my servant’ – I have chosen you and not rejected you.” (Isaiah 41:8-9)

But hear now Jacob, My servant, and Israel whom I have chosen!” (Isaiah 44:1)

Remember these things, Jacob and Israel, for you are My servant: I fashioned you to be My servant: Israel do not forget Me!” (Isaiah 44:21)

..for the sake of My servant Jacob and Israel, My chosen one: I have proclaimed you by name…” (Isaiah 45:4)

…say, the Lord has redeemed His servant Jacob.” (Isaiah 48:20)

…You are my servant, Israel, in whom I take glory.” (Isaiah 49:3)
 
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A Judaic Christian rejects Paganism being joined to God. A Judaic Christian believes in the biblical fulfilment of scriptures.
And is non-Trinitarian?

I'd be curious to ask you about that, but it can't be discussed in Christian areas of CF.
 
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