[POLL] Should Christians Rest and Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?

The purpose of the law has been fulfilled!

Just like the purpose of Noah's ark has been fulfilled.

Both were used by God to achieve his purposes and are therefore good. But I no sooner focus on keeping the law than I do building an Ark.

I have been given the Holy Spirit who lives in me and instructs me daily on how to do the will of God both loving God and loving his creation.

He gives me positive things to do that were never conceived of in the law. Prescribing rather than proscribing.

I shovel snow for invalided neighbors.
I share specific words from God to people I meet in grocery stores, and bars, and cigar smoke shops.
I feed the poor and cloth the needy.
I help disadvantaged kids in their late teens and early twenties start businesses.

The law is so incredibly small compared to Jesus' work of kingdom building that the HS leads me in. That is what Paul is getting at in Galatians.

Stop aiming so low as to keep the law!

Follow the HS and destroy Satan's kingdom.

Follow the HS and usher in the Kingdom of God.

Bring God's goodness to those in your sphere of influence.

Against these activities there is no comparison with the law.

It is like bickering about how to write on clay tablets compared to voice-recognition computers writing and autocorrecting what we speak. The law is a museum piece. Why ignore the great gift of the HS for the law?

Uber Genius said:

The purpose of the law has been fulfilled!

Just like the purpose of Noah's ark has been fulfilled.

Both were used by God to achieve his purposes and are therefore good. But I no sooner focus on keeping the law than I do building an Ark.

I have been given the Holy Spirit who lives in me and instructs me daily on how to do the will of God both loving God and loving his creation.

He gives me positive things to do that were never conceived of in the law. Prescribing rather than proscribing.

I shovel snow for invalided neighbors.

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The principles of the things you mentioned are found in the Law. This is the point of Jesus' summary about loving God and loving your neighbor. He captured the principles of the Law and upheld them. He quotes the Law to make his point.

CDF47 said:

They established the calendar based on the moon and the LORD was fine with the day chosen as the 7th day.

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I don't know, to me what Paul said in Romans 14 is in line with what Jesus said in Matthew 22 about the most important commandment. The important thing is that we do what we do to honor God.

Steve Petersen said:

The principles of the things you mentioned are found in the Law. This is the point of Jesus' summary about loving God and loving your neighbor. He captured the principles of the Law and upheld them. He quotes the Law to make his point.

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Yes of course. But tonwhatmis he referring in Jn 17 when he talks about the inability of the diciples to understand all that is being ushered in with the kingdom and his upcoming death and resurrection?

Matt 5:18-48 makes it clear what the law requires.the religious leaders figured it out.

As Christ transitoons God' work with mankind from Old to New Covenant he doesn't say I fulfilled the law so you fulfill the law.

Paul reveals the purpose of the law and keeping it is not its purpose.

And although we are called o be imatators of Christ, the context is never fulfilling the law. That is a one-man (God-man) job! Tetelestai

BNR32FAN said:

I don't know, to me what Paul said in Romans 14 is in line with what Jesus said in Matthew 22 about the most important commandment. The important thing is that we do what we do to honor God.

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Several years ago a friend of mine made a connection between Romans 14 and the Mishnah, Tractate Avodah Zarah (Idol Worship). I thought it was rather compelling. He may have picked up on this from Mark Nanos (The Mystery of Romans.)

Basic premise is this: Romans was written to non-Pauline congregations in Rome composed of believing Jews and believing Gentiles. These mixed congregations had problems caused by cultural differences between Jews and Gentiles, specifically in regards to food and days. These stem from Jewish custom and halakah that prohibited eating or drinking things the MAY have been offered to idols. Also part of the problem were Jewish restrictions on doing business with Gentiles at or near pagan holidays. All of these elements can be found in Romans 14 and Avodah Zarah.

Here is a pretty good treatment of the subject.

Here are citations from the Mishnah.

Uber Genius said:

This seems artificial. It is narrow or a reduction. The gentile don't have the law, so they apparently can't sin.

There is blasphemy of the HS which is not one of the commands of the law.

We want to be careful of these analogies. If we produce a false analogy we can end up destroying God's revelation.

I would need to see more evidence of your narrow definition and its ramifications before I could sign-on to this view.

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But gentiles do have the law, it is written in their mind and placed on their heart. However, they also have a saviour from their transgressions of the law/ their sin, hence they are not righteous by observing the law. And If you observe the law you do not commit sin:

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth
Rom10:4

If the Christian is not righteous by observing the law, they cannot be unrighteous for failing to observe it

The verdict on the effectiveness of the law to produce righteousness is in!

WEAK!

Due to men's carnal nature. As jesus describes the intent of the law in Matt 5 do we really think we can keep it even as Christians? Not even look with lust at a woman, not call someone a mean name in a fight? Really? Come on people this is a knock down defeater for keeping the law as Christians.

1stcenturylady said:

Except Sunday is not the Sabbath.

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Whatev.

Uber Genius said:

The verdict on the effectiveness of the law to produce righteousness is in!

WEAK!

Due to men's carnal nature. As jesus describes the intent of the law in Matt 5 do we really think we can keep it even as Christians? Not even look with lust at a woman, not call someone a mean name in a fight? Really? Come on people this is a knock down defeater for keeping the law as Christians.

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You blame the law, then you blame the people. Which is it?

stuart lawrence said:

If the Christian is not righteous by observing the law, they cannot be unrighteous for failing to observe it

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Well this is certainly true. By the works of the law no flesh will be justified.

So Paul makes the point that Gentiles don't have the law. If you want to broaden your definition of the law to include one conscience then I retract my narrowness complaint above.

Steve Petersen said:

You blame the law, then you blame the people. Which is it?

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Now now now, no false dichotomies or straw men please. That is not nice.

It is not an either or. The purpose of the law was not to create righteous people!


Galatians 3:24
Romans 3:19-20

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 8:3-4

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

James 2:10
Galatians 3:21
Romans 7:7
Galatians 2:16
Galatians 3:10-11

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Romans 3:28
Galatians 2:21
Romans 10:4
2 Corinthians 3:6-18

who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? read more.

It is not like we don't have a mountain of scriptural data pertaining to the purpose of the law.

Roman's 10:4 indeed describes the swan song for the law.

Uber Genius said:

Well this is certainly true. By the works of the law no flesh will be justified.

So Paul makes the point that Gentiles don't have the law. If you want to broaden your definition of the law to include one conscience then I retract my narrowness complaint above.

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The law comes in two parts. The law itself that must be obeyed, and the attached penalty for disobedience. The law itself was not abolished, the penalty was for the believer. Therefore no law of righteousness exists for the Christian. Simply put, in the Christians heart they don't want to steal, kill, commit adultery, bear false witness etc.
The law got transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts( 2cor3:3) It is no longer an external law but internal to the believer. Because the believer in their heart wants to obey God( for that is where the law has been placed) tbey have a saviour from their sin. For Christ will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart want to live as his father desires them to
Note the order in the following:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts( you have been born again)
THEN HE ADDS
There sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more( you have a saviour from your sins)
Heb 10:16&17

stuart lawrence said:

The law comes in two parts. The law itself that must be obeyed, and the attached penalty for disobedience. The law itself was not abolished, the penalty was for the believer. Therefore no law of righteousness exists for the Christian. Simply put, in the Christians heart they don't want to steal, kill, commit adultery, bear false witness etc.
The law got transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts( 2cor3:3) It is no longer an external law but internal to the believer. Because the believer in their heart wants to obey God( for that is where the law has been placed) tbey have a saviour from their sin. For Christ will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart want to live as his father desires them to
Note the order in the following:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts( you have been born again)
THEN HE ADDS
There sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more( you have a saviour from your sins)
Heb 10:16&17

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We are in violent agreement.

Some things that might bring clarity.

Law is righteous and has limited use in the OT to restrain evil but never produces righteousness.

In the NT we find in Jesus and Paul, James, others that the law leads us to recognize WE ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS.

We confuse the fact that the law IS righteous with claim we should use the law to obtain or maintain righteousness.

We have dozens of scriptures to help us understand these truths. Don't let people delete key scriptural data when they argue we should keep the law because the law is good. The cross was good, but we are not expected to die sacrificially for others sins that work is already fulfilled by Christ just as he fulfilled the requirement of the law.

Uber Genius said:

Now now now, no false dichotomies or straw men please. That is not nice.

It is not an either or. The purpose of the law was not to create righteous people!

Click to expand...

Uber Genius said:

Some things that might bring clarity.

Law is righteous and has limited use in the OT to restrain evil but never produces righteousness.

In the NT we find in Jesus and Paul, James, others that the law leads us to recognize WE ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS.

We confuse the fact that the law IS righteous with claim we should use the law to obtain or maintain righteousness.

We have dozens of scriptures to help us understand these truths. Don't let people delete key scriptural data when they argue we should keep the law because the law is good. The cross was good, but we are not expected to die sacrificially for others sins that work is already fulfilled by Christ just as he fulfilled the requirement of the law.

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Yet over and over again in the OT we find the term 'righteous' being used of different people. Maybe the Christian definition of 'righteous' is overly strict.

God would consider people righteous under the OC. But no one was truly righteous, for that would have required faultless obedience to the law. Hence:
Do not being your servant into judgement, for no one living is righteous before you
Psalms143:2

Steve Petersen said:

Several years ago a friend of mine made a connection between Romans 14 and the Mishnah, Tractate Avodah Zarah (Idol Worship). I thought it was rather compelling. He may have picked up on this from Mark Nanos (The Mystery of Romans.)

Basic premise is this: Romans was written to non-Pauline congregations in Rome composed of believing Jews and believing Gentiles. These mixed congregations had problems caused by cultural differences between Jews and Gentiles, specifically in regards to food and days. These stem from Jewish custom and halakah that prohibited eating or drinking things the MAY have been offered to idols. Also part of the problem were Jewish restrictions on doing business with Gentiles at or near pagan holidays. All of these elements can be found in Romans 14 and Avodah Zarah.

Here is a pretty good treatment of the subject.

Here are citations from the Mishnah.

Click to expand...

Many SDA make that claim for Romans 14 but it was 1 Corinthians 8 where Paul was making that reference. Nowhere in Romans 14 does he make a reference to idols or food offered to them. Also note that Paul mentions considering a certain day as holy. He says both do so to honor God which is what I was referring to earlier about what Jesus said in Matthew 22 about the most important commandment.

BNR32FAN said:

God commanded that we have 6 days to work and on the 7th day we must rest. He never said the 7th day of the week. Nowhere in the bible does it say that God commanded a specific day of rest.

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You have an odd interpretation.

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Jesus didn't die to do away with the law, He died to do away with sin - the need for the law.

1 John 3:4-9
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Romans 8:8-9
"So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Romans 8:2-4
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

As for the Sabbath, that was part of the law. The Sabbath was just a foreshadow of the rest that Jesus has given us EVERYDAY. Those who walk in the Spirit are no longer under the law.