[POLL] Should Christians Rest and Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?

[1stcenturylady]

Whatev.

Many denominations erroneously call Sunday, the Sabbath. Not.

 

[CDF47]

I don't know, to me what Paul said in Romans 14 is in line with what Jesus said in Matthew 22 about the most important commandment. The important thing is that we do what we do to honor God.

I agree with that.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Is it just me or does Jesus seem to teach more about the purpose of the law rather than the letter of the law?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Is it just me or does Jesus seem to teach more about the purpose of the law rather than the letter of the law?

That was the Pharisees mistake. They just tried to follow the letter of the law.

When you do that, the two greatest commandments( based on love) becomes the casualty.
There is no love, mercy or compassion in perfectly follow the letter of the law or you are in danger of the fires of hell. Just cold, heartless religion that must end in hypocrisy, for:
The letter kills
Sadly, some preach that today.

 

[BobRyan]

[POLL] Should Christians Rest and Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?

"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
"the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27

 

[BobRyan]

Is it just me or does Jesus seem to teach more about the purpose of the law rather than the letter of the law?

Mark 7:6-13 comes to mind. Pharisees tried to tweek and downsize God's Law - Christ defends it.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree, there is the rest in Christ Paul was referring to but there is also eternal rest in paradise where everyday is a Sabbath day.

A nice sentiment but not a Bible text.

The Bible speaks of TWO cycles on which "All MANKIND" will come before God to worship - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath".
AND
"from New Moon to New Moon"

As opposed to "daily"

See Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship"

 

[BobRyan]

Many SDA make that claim for Romans 14 but it was 1 Corinthians 8 where Paul was making that reference. Nowhere in Romans 14 does he make a reference to idols or food offered to them. .

It's called "exegesis" to do it right you look at what the same author says on the same topic in all his writings. Isolating one text and inserting guesswork is not allowed in that model.

For example in Romans 14 Paul talks about eating vegetables only - but there was no history among Jews or Gentiles where the "weak in faith" eat vegetables only. In fact all of them had religious practices that included meat eating.

To find out about the "vegetables only " context we go to 1 Cor 8:13 "I will never eat meat again if it causes my brother to stumble". So the "weak in faith" in that chapter are "eating vegetables only" (just as we see in Romans 14). This is the only explanation Paul gives for such a debate in the first century church.

Why should the reader simply "make stuff up" when they find Paul talking about vegetarian issues for the weak in faith -- when Paul himself explains it in 1Cor 8???

 

[CDF47]

"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
"the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27

Those are some great sources.

 

[CDF47]

Mark 7:6-13 comes to mind. Pharisees tried to tweek and downsize God's Law - Christ defends it.

Good point. They made many laws for the people which made it even harder for them to follow God.

 

[CDF47]

A nice sentiment but not a Bible text.

The Bible speaks of TWO cycles on which "All MANKIND" will come before God to worship - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath".
AND
"from New Moon to New Moon"

As opposed to "daily"

See Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship"

Ah yes, good point.

 

[CDF47]

Shabbat Shalom!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Why do people use the words?
You must obey the TC
The law is within you, it is part of your life, written in your mind and placed on your heart. You instinctively know it, you in your heart want to obey it.
You have born again of the Holy Spirit. It is he who circumcised your heart, not the law( deut30:6, rom2:29)
You have been supernaturally changed by the Holy Spirit who dwells in you. No longer can you sin without conscience, no longer can you happily sin without a care in the world, not possible anymore. The law if you like is part of your life, part of your DNA, your conscience testifies to.that. It's part of who you are.
No writer of the epistles, once the NC is in operation uses the words, TC, none of them state:
You must obey the TC.
They give warnings of sinfull behaviour, but at no time, use the words: TC when doing so?
Why not?
It isn't an external law anymore written on tablets of stone, but an internal law written on tablets of human hearts, of which the literal words of the TC are only part.
If one should specifically focus on the TC the Apostles would have told us to, but they didn't!
The only specific reference to the TC is when Paul states they are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation.
Paul repeatedly tells us we are not under law, we must die to the law in order to live for God. Sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law if we live under it. The Christian dies to following after the written code and follows after the Holy Spirit.
The TC condemned Saul the pharisee. They condemn us all if we must obey them in order to remain in a saved state.
So why tell people:
You must obey the TC if none of the Apostles used that term of words?
It's very OC to keep stressing
You must obey the TC
The law is within you now, not external to you. You don't need to continually be repeatedly told to obey what is written in your mind and placed on your heart do you? What you in your heart already want to obey
So what's the point?
Wouldn't it be more important to say:
Love your neighbour as yourself? That supercedes nine of the TC and covers much more than those specific commands do in relation to loving others?
Now the Apostles much wrote of loving others, but never wrote using the words:
Ten commandments.
Maybe they understood what some find it hard to understand today

 

[CDF47]

Why do people use the words?
You must obey the TC
The law is within you, it is part of your life, written in your mind and placed on your heart. You instinctively know it, you in your heart want to obey it.
You have born again of the Holy Spirit. It is he who circumcised your heart, not the law( deut30:6, rom2:29)
You have been supernaturally changed by the Holy Spirit who dwells in you. No longer can you sin without conscience, no longer can you happily sin without a care in the world, not possible anymore. The law if you like is part of your life, part of your DNA, your conscience testifies to.that. It's part of who you are.
No writer of the epistles, once the NC is in operation uses the words, TC, none of them state:
You must obey the TC.
They give warnings of sinfull behaviour, but at no time, use the words: TC when doing so?
Why not?
It isn't an external law anymore written on tablets of stone, but an internal law written on tablets of human hearts, of which the literal words of the TC are only part.
If one should specifically focus on the TC the Apostles would have told us to, but they didn't!
The only specific reference to the TC is when Paul states they are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation.
Paul repeatedly tells us we are not under law, we must die to the law in order to live for God. Sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law if we live under it. The Christian dies to following after the written code and follows after the Holy Spirit.
The TC condemned Saul the pharisee. They condemn us all if we must obey them in order to remain in a saved state.
So why tell people:
You must obey the TC if none of the Apostles used that term of words?
It's very OC to keep stressing
You must obey the TC
The law is within you now, not external to you. You don't need to continually be repeatedly told to obey what is written in your mind and placed on your heart do you? What you in your heart already want to obey
What's the point?

I agree, Christians should not tell people they must follow the Law, rather they should tell them once they follow the Holy Spirit they are changed and the Law is written on their hearts. There is a level of self control needed to and improvement in righteous over time. They should also be informed that they are saved by grace, not by the law. They should also be informed not to willfully sin by going against their good conscientious. They should also read and study the word on a regular basis, pray, and preach the word.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I agree, Christians should not tell people they must follow the Law, rather they should tell them once they follow the Holy Spirit they are changed and the Law is written on their hearts. There is a level of self control needed to and improvement in righteous over time. They should also be informed that they are saved by grace, not by the law. They should also be informed not to willfully sin by going against their good conscientious. They should also read and study the word on a regular basis, pray, and preach the word.

Big difference between what we can term wilfull sin, and sin you hate, sin you are desperate to be free from isn't there

 

[stuart lawrence]

What we can term wilfull sin must seer your conscience, for you are going against what is in your heart

 

[CDF47]

Big difference between what we can term wilfull sin, and sin you hate, sin you are desperate to be free from isn't there

Yes, there is a difference. I agree with your next post that willful sin or even just sin can seer your conscious but working with the Lord can even heal that.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Yes, there is a difference. I agree with your next post that willful sin or even just sin can seer your conscious but working with the Lord can even heal that.

Some today say, as soon as you become a Christian all sin can and MUST immediatley cease. That is not the true spiritual message of starting out in the Christian path:

If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove I am a lawbreaker
Gal2:16&17

No licence to sin of course, for the law is in your heart

 

[stuart lawrence]

. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.

The TC are the foundation of old and new covenants?
They will be the basis of the judgement where we are all accountable to God?

A perfect description of someone living under righteousness of observing the law, no matter what their protestations to the contrary.
So the basis on which Christians will be judged is whether or not they obeyed the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation.

If the basis of the judgement is obeying the TC, why did Jesus die at Calvary?
I notice the second greatest commandment, love thy neighbour as thyself wasn't Included in this basis of the judgement!!

 

[stuart lawrence]

When he( the Holy Spirit) comes he will convict the world of guilt, in regard to sin and righteousness and judgement.
IN REGARD TO SIN, because men do not believe in me. In regard to righteousness because I am going to my father, IN REGARD TO JUDGEMENT, because the prince of this world now stands condemned
John16:8-11


So who is convicting people
That the basis of the judgement, is whether they obeyed the TC?