Truth

Celticroots said:

If we aren't saved by believing in Christ's work then what can we do? Why do people say believe? I am not getting this at all.

I personally told God I believed that Jesus was the only way I could be saved that I put my trust in Him and that I firmly believe Him and only He saved me when He died and rose again.

I take Him at his word, not because of any action I took.

Click to expand...

Yes, good so far.

Follow up - what did all the Apostles and disciples DO ? (in Scripture)

Reading ACTS of the Apostles (in the New Testament) helps a lot.

Celticroots said:

I am not a new Christian but have some questions. The Gospel as I understand it is: God wants a relationship with us and for us to enter Heaven. But we are sinful and God does not let sin enter Heaven. Luckily God provides us a way out-His son Jesus. Jesus was God in flesh who took the penalty of our sin by his death/ resurrection.

To be saved you must believe Jesus's sacrifice as the only payment for your sins; you can't save yourself. Obedience will not save but obedience naturally comes after being saved. After being regenerated we obey God's commands because we have been saved.

Some believe you can lose your salvation. If that's the case then why did Christ endure one of the worst deaths imaginable? Or that we can stop sinning in this life. I believe we still sin but our attitude towards sin should change and we should start to sin less.

On here I've seen arguments regarding salvation and other things go on for pages. Everyone sure their position is the correct one.



Then how can anyone find out the truth? How can we find out through the word? As a Christian I want to know.

Click to expand...

Put down the books and forget everything you thought you knew and go to God as a little child and say: "Teach me"

Celticroots said:

I am not a new Christian but have some questions. The Gospel as I understand it is: God wants a relationship with us and for us to enter Heaven. But we are sinful and God does not let sin enter Heaven. Luckily God provides us a way out-His son Jesus. Jesus was God in flesh who took the penalty of our sin by his death/ resurrection.

To be saved you must believe Jesus's sacrifice as the only payment for your sins; you can't save yourself. Obedience will not save but obedience naturally comes after being saved. After being regenerated we obey God's commands because we have been saved.

Some believe you can lose your salvation. If that's the case then why did Christ endure one of the worst deaths imaginable? Or that we can stop sinning in this life. I believe we still sin but our attitude towards sin should change and we should start to sin less.

On here I've seen arguments regarding salvation and other things go on for pages. Everyone sure their position is the correct one.



Then how can anyone find out the truth? How can we find out through the word? As a Christian I want to know.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure truth is much discovered on these websites. As you say, everyone is convinced their view is the right one. I'm struggling to recall anyone, in nine years of being on various websites who has changed their mind about anything during debate.

Fish Catcher Jim said:

Explain Hebrews 6:4-6
4For it isimpossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put himto an open shame.

Blessings
FCJ

Click to expand...

It says, can't you understand, if you're saved you're always saved. It's impossible to lose your salvation. Because if it were possible, then potentially you could repent again, thus, forcing Jesus to "die" the second time in you, which is nonesense. The passage is trying to convince you that the falling away is superficial only - not in your eternal spirit.

Friend-of-Jesus said:

It's impossible to lose your salvation. Because if it were possible, then potentially you could repent again, thus, forcing Jesus to "die" the second time in you, which is nonesense.

Click to expand...

Not what Scripture says.

If someone does lose their salvation, as written in Scripture, they CANNOT REPENT AGAIN - no, not possible.
And no, there would be no "forcing" Jesus to "die" a second time at all, no, never.

That's why the warnings in SCRIPTURE (GOD'S WORD) are so severe. There is not another chance to be saved.

Celticroots said:

Some believe you can lose your salvation. If that's the case then why did Christ endure one of the worst deaths imaginable? ....
Then how can anyone find out the truth? How can we find out through the word? As a Christian I want to know.

Click to expand...

Any study of truth starts with God's revealed word in scripture and the help of the Holy Spirit. Starting with man-made definitions and philosophies can hinder that process.

For example on definitions: what does 'lose salvation' mean? Some define it as 'sin too much, or commit a specific sin, thereby forfeiting one's right to salvation through faith.' For others, the definition would be 'reject faith, thereby forfeit claim on the promises of God.' To still others, it might mean one can be deprived of salvation due to some negligence (such as failing to get water baptized before death), or even an outside factor (such as demon possession, etc.)

Since the phrase itself is used in widely different ways, then it's hard to begin a study with the phrase itself.

For example on man-made philosophies: Jesus never stated that the purpose of His death was to ensure that everybody on Earth got saved, or that those who start in faith would have to end in faith. As such, the idea that someone beginning in faith but later reject faith doesn't negate the importance or purpose of Christ's death in any way.


That said, there are a number of scriptures that speak to the topic in general of whether one can place faith in Christ at one point, so those can shed light on the subject. Perhaps most noteable among them is I Tim 4:1, where the "spirit expressly (explicitly) says that in later times some will depart from the faith"
What does it mean in 1 Tim 4:1 that 'some will depart from faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits?'

What is the underlying Greek word used for translating "falling away" in the NKJV & "departure" in the WEB?
Does Hebrews 10:26 mean that a believer can lose salvation?
Does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean we can lose our salvation?
Can a Christian 'give back' salvation?
What is 'perseverance of the saints' and is it biblical?

There are other passages as well, such as II Pet 2:20-22 or I Tim 1:19, that show people making shipwreck of their faith and returning to the world.


Other passages of interest are commonly read, such as John 3:16, Mk 16:16, John 15:1-17, Luke 8:4-15, I John 5:3-5. However, the bit often lost in translation is that all the verbs for 'believe' here are continuous. That is, one must have ongoing faith to actively hold eternal life; as one believes, one holds eternal life. Eternal life is not based on a one-time or past belief, rather it is based in our present belief.

You can lose salvation if you harden your heart towards God and the Holy Spirit leaves you. It is called "apostasy".

Heb 3:12 - "See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God."


Apostasy (Gk apostasia) appears twice in the NT as a noun (Ac 21:21; 2Th 2:3). But here in Heb 3:12 it is used as a verb (Gk aphist e¯mi, meaning to "turn away"). The Greek term literally means "standing away" from God, and it relates to spiritual rebellion, abandonment, withdrawal or turning from what one has previously believed and experienced in a relationship with Christ. It typically involves denying a once sincere faith, disowning Jesus and abandoning the body of Christ (i. e., the church community), although some who have turned their backs on a relationship with Christ may still pretend to be part of the church. Apostasy is the consequence of a willing and deliberate choice to "turn away from the living God" (3:12).


(1) To apostatize means to break off from one's saving relationship with Christ or to withdraw from union with and faith in him (see article on FAITH AND GRACE). For this reason, individual apostasy (as differentiated from a group, church, people or nation rejecting God) is possible only for those who have first experienced God's forgiveness and been spiritually "born again" (Jn 3:3- 7) and renewed through a personal relationship with Christ (cf. Lk 8:13; 6:4- 5; 10:29). Apostasy is not simply a denial of NT belief and teaching by those in the church who do not truly have a personal relationship with Christ. In fact, apostasy may involve two separate but related stages of rejection:


(a) theological apostasy, which is a rejection of all or some of the original teachings of Christ and those used by God to write his Word (1Ti 4:1; 2Ti 4:3) and


(b) moral apostasy, which involves a former believer willingly breaking away from a personal relationship with Christ and becoming spiritually enslaved again to sin and its lifestyle (Isa 29:13; Mt 23:25- 28; Ro 6:15- 23; 8:6- 13).


(2) The Christian faith is primarily about relationship to and companionship with God. The Bible speaks of God as the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son and those who accept Christ by faith as God's family and children (Ro 8:14- 17). This means that spiritual salvation through faith in Christ is personal, relational and requires our individual response. God's grace (i. e., his unearned and undeserved favor, love and spiritual enablement) –made available through the personal sacrifice of Christ–is enough to forgive and save us spiritually and to sustain our relationship with God. In Jesus' illustration about the vine and the branches (Jn 15:1- 8), the believer (BRANCH) who remains united in relationship with Christ (VINE) is spiritually secure and has life. However, if that believer becomes spiritually rebellious or faithless toward God and chooses to break from his or her grace- union with Christ, then he or she becomes cut off from the source of life. A person who remains in this condition will, in the end, lose the privilege of living eternally in the presence of God, just as one who never accepted Christ (cf. Jn 15:6).


(3) The Bible gives urgent warnings about this serious and sobering possibility. These warnings are designed both to alert us to the deadly danger of abandoning our union with Christ and to motivate us to remain faithful and obedient to him. We must not ignore or treat lightly God's purpose for these warnings and develop the attitude that says, "the warnings are real, but the possibility of actual apostasy is not." Rather, we must take these warnings seriously, realizing that they apply in a very real sense to how we use our time on earth until we receive our full, complete and final salvation in eternity with God. A few of the many NT passages that warn us are: Mt 24:4- 5, 11- 13; Lk 12:46; Jn 15:1- 6; Ac 14:21- 22; Ro 11:17- 21; 1Co 15:1- 2; Col 1:23; 1Ti 4:1, 16; 6:10- 12; 2Ti 4:2- 5; Heb 2:1- 3; 3:7- 19; 4:1, 6- 7; 6:4- 9; 10:26- 31; 12:25; Jas 5:19- 20; 2Pe 1:10; 2:20- 22; 1Jn 2:23- 25.


(4) Examples of actual apostasy can be found in Ex 32; 2Ki 17:7- 23; Ps 106; Isa 1:2- 4; Jer 2:1- 9; Ac 1:25; Gal 5:4; 1Ti 1:18- 20; 2Pe 2:1, 15, 20- 22; Jude 1:4, 11- 13).


(5) The steps that lead to apostasy are as follows:


(a) Believers–those who have accepted God's forgiveness and entered a personal relationship with him through faith in Christ–become spiritually unconcerned, resistant or outright rebellious. These individuals show their unbelief by failing to take seriously all of the truths, challenges, warnings, promises and teachings of God's Word (Mk 1:15; Lk 8:13; Jn 5:44, 47; 8:46).


(b) If the realities and desires of the world become a higher priority than the realities and desires of God's kingdom and purposes, then believers gradually cease to recognize and experience companionship with God through Christ (Heb 4:16; 7:19, 25; 11:6).


(c) Because of the deceitfulness of sin (i. e., anything that offends or defies God or falls short of his standard), believers become increasingly tolerant of sin in their own lives (1Co 6:9- 10; Eph 5:5; Heb 3:13). They no longer love what is right and hate what is wrong.


(d) Their hearts become spiritually hardened (Heb 3:8, 13), resistant and unresponsive to God. Eventually, they openly reject his way (3:10), ignoring the repeated inner voice and rebuke of the Holy Spirit (Eph 4:30; 1Th 5:19- 22).


(e) The Holy Spirit becomes grieved (Eph 4:30; cf. Heb 3:7- 8), his fire is "put out" (1Th 5:19) and his temple (i. e., the person's body and life) is violated (1Co 3:16). As a result, the Holy Spirit eventually departs from the believer's life (Jdg 16:20; Ps 51:11; Ro 8:13; 1Co 3:16- 17; Heb 3:14).


(6) If spiritual "backsliding" (i. e., neglecting or abandoning one's faith and personal relationship with Christ) continues on its course without change, individuals may eventually reach the point where no new beginning is possible. That is to say, they will not be able to start over and renew their faith in God because no one is able to do this on their own apart from God's grace and the power of his Holy Spirit.


(a) Those who once had a saving experience with Christ but deliberately and continually harden their hearts to the Spirit's voice (Heb 3:7- 19), continue to sin willfully (Heb 10:26) and refuse to turn from their own way back to God may reach a point of no return where repentance and salvation are no longer possible (Heb 6:4- 6). There is a limit to God's patience (see 1Sa 3:11- 14; Mt 12:31- 32; 2Th 2:9- 11; Heb 10:26- 29, 31; 1Jn 5:16).


(b) This point of no return cannot be defined in advance. The only safeguard against the danger of ultimate (i. e., full and final) apostasy is to take this warning seriously: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts" (Heb 3:7- 8, 15; 4:7).


(7) It must be emphasized that while spiritual backsliding is a danger for all who drift from faith in Christ (Heb 2:1- 3) and turn away from God (6:6), ultimate apostasy resulting in the hopeless condition described in the previous point does not occur without constant and deliberate resistance against the Holy Spirit. Just as we are not saved by our own works and efforts, but by God's grace (see Eph 2:8- 9; Tit 3:5), neither are we fully condemned to separation from God by our actions alone (although we will be judged by them; 2Co 5:10). People are saved spiritually by accepting God's grace and putting their faith in Christ; and people are condemned spiritually by rejecting (or simply not accepting) God's grace and refusing to put their faith in Christ (cf. 12:15, 25; Ac 19:19; 2Th 2:10; Rev 16:9). Refusing to have faith in God can be expressed in several ways, including refusing to believe in God, refusing to rely on God, refusing to take God at his Word, refusing to admit the wrongness of our own way, refusing to accept God's way of spiritual salvation through Christ alone and refusing to accept God's help and involvement in our lives. A person who allows his or her heart to become hardened or rebellious toward God by refusing him in any of these ways is in serious danger of rejecting God permanently (3:12).


(8) Some who reject their faith and abandon a true relationship with God (Heb 3:12) may still think they are Christians. However, their spiritual neglect and unconcern toward the demands of Christ, the inner voice of the Holy Spirit and the warnings of Scripture prove that they are in rebellion against God. Because of this possibility of self- deception, Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves".


(9) Those who genuinely become concerned about their spiritual condition and have a desire to return to God in true repentance (i. e., changing one's attitude toward God, admitting sin, turning from one's own way and submitting to God) can be sure that they have not committed the unforgivable sin (cf. Mk 3:29), or ultimate apostasy. God's Word clearly affirms that he does not want anyone to perish or be spiritually lost and separated from him for eternity (2Pe 3:9; cf. Isa 1:18- 19; 55:6- 7). In fact, the heavenly Father will joyfully receive any wayward, rebellious or lost child who truly repents and returns to him (compare Gal 5:4 with 4:19; 1Co 5:1- 5 with 2Co 2:5- 11; see also Lk 15:11- 24; Ro 11:20- 23; Jas 5:19- 20; Rev 3:14- 20; note the example of Peter, Mt 16:16; 26:74- 75; Jn 21:15- 22).

Friend-of-Jesus said:

It says, can't you understand, if you're saved you're always saved. It's impossible to lose your salvation. Because if it were possible, then potentially you could repent again, thus, forcing Jesus to "die" the second time in you, which is nonsense. The passage is trying to convince you that the falling away is superficial only - not in your eternal spirit.

Click to expand...

I do not think you can get that from the passage, as that is directly opposite from the language of the text. First, there is no conditional 'if' to the passage as to make it a hypothetical. The KJV translation added an 'if' - but without basis in the Greek.

"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and having fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame."

It doesn't say, "But it's potentially possible to renew them again to repentance." It says, clearly, "It is impossible to renew them again to repentance."

Nor does the language of the text support 'superficial' Christianity. Only believers are partakers of the Holy Spirit, for example.
-Seen the light (II Cor 4:6)
- ate of the heavenly gift (John 6:33),
- they once shared in the Holy Spirit (I Cor 12:13, II Peter 1:4, Eph 3:6, Heb 3:14, Col 1:12, Phil 1:7, Eph 4:4, etc) ["partakers of the Holy Ghost" Literally, those who have shared in and been active partakers with the Holy Spirit, such as Heb 3:1]
- they once tasted the goodness of the word of God (Psalm 38:4)
- they once shared in the power of the spirit/spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12:4)
- they had once repented (Acts 2:38).

After all this, they had fallen away (not and if, or a could, or an if they could - in their cases, they did.)
In Heb 4:6, the word for 'fall away' is 'parapipto.' Parapipto literally means 'to fall from close beside,' that is, to desert something you were once a part of or to apostatize.
What exactly does "fall away" mean in Heb 6:6?

Para is an emphatic form of "from", meaning from close beside. The word itself highlights the nearness or proximity of presence or intimate participation. (Ex: Matt 2:4, Matt 2:16, Matt 4:18, Mark 5:21, etc and some OT septuigant refs: Ezek 14:12-14, Ezek 15:8) There are so many other nuances of para, especially based on grammar, as well.

Pipto is "to fall" or to "fall under" something.

By placing para first in parapipto, Paul emphasizes that they fell from the intimate relationship he had -just described- that of partakers of the Holy Spirit.

CodyFaith said:

Saved means saved. It's simple, don't let people complicate it. If you could become "unsaved" then the word saved itself would not even make sense.

Click to expand...

Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

CodyFaith said:

Ephesians 4:30 - sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption
Ephesians 1:13 - sealed

Click to expand...

The seal of the Holy Spirit is mentioned in several passages, and in none of it does it mean that someone can't reject faith:

"... When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit." Eph 1:13
"...the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Eph 4:30
"Now He who establishes us together with you in Christ, and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge." I Cor 2:21-22

This seal is the Greek term sphragízō, which means literally to seal or affix, such as with a signet ring or other stamping instrument, and figuratively to attest ownership and authorize/validate what is sealed.

Sealing is a legal term which can show a number of important things:

#1 - Ownership
#2 - A guarantee of security by the owner against outside tampering
#3 - A guarantee of the sealed promises or terms to be fulfilled in the future
#4 - A locking away of a document until later revelation/fulfillment (such as a will, to be read only after death, or a sealed prophecy)
#5 - Certified agreement

Context will generally supply which of these is meant. For example, in Jn 3:33, "Whoever has accepted it has set his seal to this, (certified) that God is truthful," only the last legal sense of certified agreement is meant.

When it comes to the seal of the Holy Spirit, however, other scripture shows that it is the first three legal concepts which are highlighted, with an implication of the fourth in Rom 8:19 and I Pet 1:4.

Ownership:

The seal of the Holy Spirit is a mark of God's ownership of us.

"...When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession..." Eph 1:13-14

"...having been set free from sin, you have become slaves to righteousness." Rom 6:18

"...you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?" I Cor 3:16

"...you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” Rom 8:15

Slaves, sheep, children, possession, own body, temple - these are all metaphors that scripture uses to show believers that they are owned by God.

Guarantee of security from tampering

Seals were often used to mark 'force of arms' or power and authority. In Dan 6:17, the king marks the stone over the lion's den with a seal, showing that his edict cannot be broken regarding Daniel. In Matt 27:65-66, Pilate orders that the stone over Jesus' tomb be sealed and a guard posted to show the might of Rome is behind the seal.

Here are some of the verses showing the force of God's protection, far greater than that of any Earthly ruler, that is shown by the seal of the Spirit:

"...you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him..." I Cor 3:16-17

"...If God is for us, who can be against us? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then is the one who condemns? No one...Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?...neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 8:31-39

Guarantee of promises/terms

"...into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are protected by God’s power..." I Pet 1:4

"The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ — if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him." Rom 8:16-17

In summary, God seals believers to show we are His possession, to guarantee His protection, and to guarantee His promises.

The seal, however, doesn't mandate that we can't break our own promises (albeit we are subject to judgment if we do!)
What is the seal of the Holy Spirit?

CodyFaith said:

John 5:24 - has passed from death unto life and shall not come into condemnation, has eternal life
1 John 5:13 - they you may know you have eternal life. You can't lose eternal life, you either have it or don't.
Romans 10:9 - you will be saved, not you might, not you will if you continue, will.
Ephesians 2:8 - saved. Saved means saved. It's simple, don't let people complicate it. If you could become "unsaved" then the word saved itself would not even make sense.

Some of many verses.

Don't let slick-worded people deceive you. This is one of the most primary doctrines and is essential to understand the gospel properly, so naturally it is one of the most vehemently attacked. Satan hates the gospel.

Click to expand...

The Calvinist theory of preservation of the saints is *not* equivalent to a primary doctrine of the gospel. Teachings of men must be evaluated on their own merits, through scripture. No man-made theory, let alone one that half of Christians do not expouse, is a primary part of the gospel message.

The gospel is simply that the way to God is through faith in Christ. If we believe in our hearts and declare with our mouths that Jesus is Lord, we will be saved.

But let's look at the actual verses:

John 5:24: ""Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, holds eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

The verbs for hear, believe, and have are all present active participles. That is, one who hears (Continuously) and believes (continually), continues to hold eternal life. 'Passed' is present middle - not a tense we have in English. It isn't referring to a one time past event, but rather to the subject (the person who actively believes) benefitting from the passage from death to life.

1 John 5:13: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Again, 'believe' here is a present active participle in the Greek. That is, a literal translation would be 'to those who are continuously believing' in the name....' Hold is also present active.

If we are believing, then we hold eternal life. The passage does not say that those who once believed, but don't now, have eternal life. It doesn't say that a current believer cannot cease to hold eternal life later if he stops believing."

Rom 10:9: "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"

Unlike the previous two verses, here confessing and believing are aorist active subjunctives. Aorists aren't that helpful on their own for narrowing down time frames. However, the following verse clarifies (with the use of present passive) that they are both ongoing states, not past events.

"for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." Rom 10:10

Eph 2:8: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;"

'saved' here is another present passive. It is not referring to a punctiliar past event.

Related: What does it mean that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith, and that this is not of ourselves but is the gift of God?

I could go on and mention many other passages, such as John 3:16, that show the importance of abiding faith (that is, continuous faith) - as only those who believe hold salvation.

Celticroots said:

Then how can anyone find out the truth? How can we find out through the word? As a Christian I want to know.

Click to expand...

You asked for help, and got exactly the theological discussion that bothers you. I actually agree with ViaCrucis that your summary of the Gospel isn't quite right.

But in terms of your question, our understanding of theology doesn't save us or damn us. God will accept anyone who is Jesus' follower. I think he'll accept some non-Christians too, but that doesn't matter to you.

And his definition of a follower isn't legalistic. It's anyone who trusts in him to save them.

I think once we're accepted, we're expected to show fruit. Not perfection, but we should show Jesus' love and forgiveness to at least someone else.

Jennifer Rothnie said:

The Calvinist theory of preservation of the saints is *not* equivalent to a primary doctrine of the gospel. Teachings of men must be evaluated on their own merits, through scripture. No man-made theory, let alone one that half of Christians do not expouse, is a primary part of the gospel message.

The gospel is simply that the way to God is through faith in Christ. If we believe in our hearts and declare with our mouths that Jesus is Lord, we will be saved.

But let's look at the actual verses:

John 5:24: ""Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, holds eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

The verbs for hear, believe, and have are all present active participles. That is, one who hears (Continuously) and believes (continually), continues to hold eternal life. 'Passed' is present middle - not a tense we have in English. It isn't referring to a one time past event, but rather to the subject (the person who actively believes) benefitting from the passage from death to life.

1 John 5:13: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Again, 'believe' here is a present active participle in the Greek. That is, a literal translation would be 'to those who are continuously believing' in the name....' Hold is also present active.

If we are believing, then we hold eternal life. The passage does not say that those who once believed, but don't now, have eternal life. It doesn't say that a current believer cannot cease to hold eternal life later if he stops believing."

Rom 10:9: "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"

Unlike the previous two verses, here confessing and believing are aorist active subjunctives. Aorists aren't that helpful on their own for narrowing down time frames. However, the following verse clarifies (with the use of present passive) that they are both ongoing states, not past events.

"for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." Rom 10:10

Eph 2:8: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;"

'saved' here is another present passive. It is not referring to a punctiliar past event.

Related: What does it mean that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith, and that this is not of ourselves but is the gift of God?

I could go on and mention many other passages, such as John 3:16, that show the importance of abiding faith (that is, continuous faith) - as only those who believe hold salvation.

Click to expand...

I'm not a Calvinist. Man has the ability to choose between good or evil. Whoever seeks God and truth with all his heart and soul will have God reveal Himself to him. Man has responsibility. Once a person comes to Christ, they've made permenant choices in their hearts that cannot be reversed. They'll always hear God's voice at that point, Christ's, even if it's a faint voice in the distance, even if they're currently in rebellion and God hides His face from them temporarily.

Those who are Christ's are always His, and will walk into paradise listening to their Shephard's voice.

CodyFaith said:

Once a person comes to Christ, they've made permenant choices in their hearts that cannot be reversed. They'll always hear God's voice at that point, Christ's, even if it's a faint voice in the distance, even if they're currently in rebellion and God hides His face from them temporarily.

Click to expand...

More than likely, at least six other posters right or wrong, have posted the Scripture that this quoted post directly contradicts. No doubt about this at all.
And no use to repeat - except maybe for those readers who weren't sure before....
As long as someone is leaning for support on a false system of belief, they won't soon(if ever) give up that system; and it apparently isn't something to try to accomplish here.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

More than likely, at least six other posters right or wrong, have posted the Scripture that this quoted post directly contradicts. No doubt about this at all.
And no use to repeat - except maybe for those readers who weren't sure before....
As long as someone is leaning for support on a false system of belief, they won't soon(if ever) give up that system; and it apparently isn't something to try to accomplish here.

Click to expand...

It's not me you're striving against.

Remember that.

And I'll repeat words of life wherever I feel it's beneficial. Christ's Life of course, not my own. I'm just a servant of His. So you'll have to deal with that as long as you strive against crucial parts of the gospel.

CodyFaith said:

It's not me you're striving against.

Remember that.

Click to expand...

I knew that from the start - your posts never fooled me.
The battle is the Lord Jesus' battle, and His battle is against the evil spirits, spiritual forces, the same ones that were active in the first century.
Jesus won. Just some people , multitudes actually, still get deceived by the "doctrines of demons",
and it is only by sheer grace any of us gets saved from those.

His desire and grace and mercy and judgment, all true, His Word, His goal, is to set you free from all that contradicts His Word,
but you must be willing.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I knew that from the start - your posts never fooled me.
The battle is the Lord Jesus' battle, and His battle is against the evil spirits, spiritual forces, the same ones that were active in the first century.
Jesus won. Just some people , multitudes actually, still get deceived by the "doctrines of demons",
and it is only by sheer grace any of us gets saved from those.

His desire and grace and mercy and judgment, all true, His Word, His goal, is to set you free from all that contradicts His Word,
but you must be willing.

Click to expand...

I'm as free as they come. I have no fear, I have true peace, joy, and love in my heart. Christ has set me free indeed, adopted me as a child, saved me from more things then I can name.

My ministry is not of Satan, but is of Christ.

Fish Catcher Jim said:

Explain Hebrews 6:4-6
4For it isimpossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put himto an open shame.

Blessings
FCJ

Click to expand...

I'm really worried that I have done it. I'm really worried that I cannot come back