Why seek "God"?

ananda · May 27, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
Trust was the main method that made the relationship work. I had to trust that the communication between us was legitimate, despite what I or anyone else thought. Part of the reward for the many small strides in trust is the wisdom to make profitable decisions. I had to depend on Him and His credibility, because, "I am a professional in sciences, and I can't have my reputation ruined over what people may think." Of course, that was long before I knew my worth; now I have enough spiritual and personal substance such that I honestly don't care about what people think. I know a lot of people say that, but I really dont.

So, there were more methods than feelings that substantiated my decisions to chose Christ. I had to change my thinking. Feelings in my experience tend to lie, so I do t trust them anyway. That wasn't a basis for my relationship with Christ.

That is another thing, despite what people may think of Christians, Christ didn't discourage me from finishing a thesis, teaching and participating in academia (articles, seminars, etc.) He didn't mind science; in fact it was encouraged. Science and faith are two sides of the same coin.

So, for me it all came down to more of a change of thinking. I didn't have to abandon my identity - even the ruff edges - in order to be a friend and brother to Christ. Even academia requires certain ettiquite in "free-thought..."

With what sense facility did you perceive him ... eyes? ears? touch? etc.

dlamberth · May 27, 2017

ananda said:
Perhaps so.
... the word "Buddha" and its connotations are more harmonious and meaningful to me.

Yea, I do get that. Really I do, because I've been there. Eventually what happened to me is that I came to terms with the knowledge that first there's Christ. And than there's Christianity. And in my mind it's rare that the two cross paths. That's when I became freed and allowed myself to see the Divine everywhere I looked. That's me though. But for you, stay with the Buddha. There's nothing but good to be found there.

Ygrene Imref · May 28, 2017

ananda said:
With what sense facility did you perceive him ... eyes? ears? touch? etc.

Consciousness, [lucid] dreams, visions, concrete syncronicity...

The perception was "felt" in those ways, and substantiated (vindicated) through physical consequences. Example: I have a conversation in a dream that is relevant (even prophetic) in the "real world," though it is hardly "prophetic" in the colloquial sense; more like conscious scynronicity.

toLiJC · May 28, 2017

ananda said:
Maybe they mean "the true God".

maybe;
maybe none of them has been the true One

Blessings

ananda · May 28, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
Consciousness, [lucid] dreams, visions, concrete syncronicity...

The perception was "felt" in those ways, and substantiated (vindicated) through physical consequences. Example: I have a conversation in a dream that is relevant (even prophetic) in the "real world," though it is hardly "prophetic" in the colloquial sense; more like conscious scynronicity.

Thanks! Were you able to verify that the "Christ" you met was Almighty?

ananda · May 28, 2017

dlamberth said:
...I came to terms with the knowledge that first there's Christ...

Glad to hear that! Unfortunately, I cannot say that I share the same knowledge.

toLiJC · May 28, 2017

dlamberth said:
My God is the essence of Life itSelf.

i don't think that the idea of presenting the true God as present everywhere and as a doer/participant in everything is good for our neighbors/cohabitants, because if we give people the idea that God is everywhere and in everything, they can thus believe that the true One is ostensibly both good and evil

Blessings

Ygrene Imref · May 28, 2017

ananda said:
Thanks! Were you able to verify that the "Christ" you met was Almighty?

I was able to do that, ironically, before I made the full devotion to Him, but after I lost the "luxury" to deny His existence. I got it from a few unfortunate circumstsnces, and through experience.

ananda · May 28, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
I was able to do that, ironically, before I made the full devotion to Him, but after I lost the "luxury" to deny His existence. I got it from a few unfortunate circumstsnces, and through experience.

Why do you suppose he doesn't reveal himself and his almightiness to everyone?

Ygrene Imref · May 28, 2017

ananda said:
Why do you suppose he doesn't reveal himself and his almightiness to everyone?

Because we are technically evil.

We just do a good job of qualifying which evils we accept, and which ones we don't in order to make us feel better. To God, lying about Santa lands you in the same "place" as murdering someone. We see quality of sin; God sees sin, period.

It is easy to notice even what sin we call minute, if you are perfect.

I don't think Christ has come back yet and revealed Himself as a human again because 1) He already did, 2) His Father told Him to "chill out" until He makes all of His enemies His footstool, and 3) He is the only human who is actually worthy to be in Heaven - without stipulation, or stewardship needed. It is His Right to sit at the right side of God.

Honestly, I understand. If I already saved the entire human race, and did everything in my mission I was supposed to do, I would "chill out" by my Dad until He finishes doing what He is doing too.

As far as God revealing Himself: that is part of the experience I said was unavoidable. He is literally everything; math and science (along with some synchronicity/miracles) allowed me to "see" God. I don't expect any human will actually see God the Father - on the throne in Glory - because He categorically disintegrates any remnant of imperfection. It is a consequence of His nature, which is why He "cant" be around corruption.

dlamberth · May 28, 2017

toLiJC said:
i don't think that the idea of presenting the true God as present everywhere and as a doer/participant in everything is good for our neighbors/cohabitants, because if we give people the idea that God is everywhere and in everything, they can thus believe that the true One is ostensibly both good and evil

I think it depends upon how much of a reality God is to a person. "IF" God is an absolute reality for a person, they will "see" God everywhere they look. "IF" God is only a "belief", God will be limited in their reality. That's a spiritual truth.

ananda · May 28, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
Because we are technically evil.

We just do a good job of qualifying which evils we accept, and which ones we don't in order to make us feel better. To God, lying about Santa lands you in the same "place" as murdering someone. We see quality of sin; God sees sin, period.

It is easy to notice even what sin we call minute, if you are perfect.

I don't think Christ has come back yet and revealed Himself as a human again because 1) He already did, 2) His Father told Him to "chill out" until He makes all of His enemies His footstool, and 3) He is the only human who is actually worthy to be in Heaven - without stipulation, or stewardship needed. It is His Right to sit at the right side of God.

Honestly, I understand. If I already saved the entire human race, and did everything in my mission I was supposed to do, I would "chill out" by my Dad until He finishes doing what He is doing too.

As far as God revealing Himself: that is part of the experience I said was unavoidable. He is literally everything; math and science (along with some synchronicity/miracles) allowed me to "see" God. I don't expect any human will actually see God the Father - on the throne in Glory - because He categorically disintegrates any remnant of imperfection. It is a consequence of His nature, which is why He "cant" be around corruption.

Thanks for sharing; I can't say I share your perspective, but I'm glad for you that your deity has revealed himself to you.

Ygrene Imref · May 28, 2017

ananda said:
Thanks for sharing; I can't say I share your perspective, but I'm glad for you that your deity has revealed himself to you.

He is your Father, too. The answers I gave you came from years of intense questioning, battles, an a bunch of frivolous middle time that seemed meaningless in my crisis of faith and philosophy - just when I needed clarity the most. I am, at best, good.

Looking back, I know for a fact I wouldn't have responded to Him unless He let all the things happen in my life to get to this point - good and bad. With my personality, and my own ego described before, I believe what I went through was the best way to actually get me to listen - for me personally.

Don't get discouraged if you are truly seeking, and it seems like the answers get more nebulous while the Christians - "deluded or not" - seem to be very comfortable in their faith. The strongest of us in faith are absurdly weak on our own. That "fire" from confident believers is strictly the Holy Spirit. I found this out the very hard way - but that was the best way for me.

Some people do not EVER go through trials, abuse, or what we may consider hardship, but that is because their personal relationship with God may require different methods of teaching than required for me, for example.

I can't reiterate this enough; the relationship you have with God is personal - even if you reject Him, it is personal. So, do not get distracted by other believers' story of faith, because likely you will not experience the same thing at all. It takes some people - actually, it takes most people an entire lifetime to get close to being "sanctified," where you are "faithful, strong in Christ, trusting of God, and '96.5887% sin free'."

His apparent lack of revelation of Himself may be His way of getting you back to Him - exploring who He is in a way that is comfortable for you, profitable for your relationship with Him. This thread of yours may be the beginning, middle, end, or a retry at that.

As long as you are alive, your search is genuine, and from the position of wanting to have a relationship with your Creator, you aren't abandoned, or without hope.

I say that from experience with Him, and from experience with other "gods" who were NOT gentlepersons, and rather liked to FORCE their way into my life, and hook into my back if I tried to leave or reject.

Read Isaiah 1: pay special attention to verses 1-17, and then focus and remember verse 18. Then, try to ponder what type of God, in general, would respond to its creation as in 1:18 - especially considering the knowledge of mythos you have, and how even demigods were neglected, let alone mortals, by the "gods" - usually unless you provide a blood or sexual sacrifice.

Then, recall this deity also claims to have made the sacrifice for us - and literally just wants us (in the context of Isaiah, especially.) You don't have to do it now, but those verses helped me understand why I should even entertain a God like Him.

ananda · May 28, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
He is your Father, too. The answers I gave you came from years of intense questioning, battles, an a bunch of frivolous middle time that seemed meaningless in my crisis of faith and philosophy - just when I needed clarity the most. I am, at best, good.

Looking back, I know for a fact I wouldn't have responded to Him unless He let all the things happen in my life to get to this point - good and bad. With my personality, and my own ego described before, I believe what I went through was the best way to actually get me to listen - for me personally.

Don't get discouraged if you are truly seeking, and it seems like the answers get more nebulous while the Christians - "deluded or not" - seem to be very comfortable in their faith. The strongest of us in faith are absurdly weak on our own. That "fire" from confident believers is strictly the Holy Spirit. I found this out the very hard way - but that was the best way for me.

Some people do not EVER go through trials, abuse, or what we may consider hardship, but that is because their personal relationship with God may require different methods of teaching than required for me, for example.

I can't reiterate this enough; the relationship you have with God is personal - even if you reject Him, it is personal. So, do not get distracted by other believers' story of faith, because likely you will not experience the same thing at all. It takes some people - actually, it takes most people an entire lifetime to get close to being "sanctified," where you are "faithful, strong in Christ, trusting of God, and '96.5887% sin free'."

His apparent lack of revelation of Himself may be His way of getting you back to Him - exploring who He is in a way that is comfortable for you, profitable for your relationship with Him. This thread of yours may be the beginning, middle, end, or a retry at that.

As long as you are alive, your search is genuine, and from the position of wanting to have a relationship with your Creator, you aren't abandoned, or without hope.

I say that from experience with Him, and from experience with other "gods" who were NOT gentlepersons, and rather liked to FORCE their way into my life, and hook into my back if I tried to leave or reject.

Read Isaiah 1: pay special attention to verses 1-17, and then focus and remember verse 18. Then, try to ponder what type of God, in general, would respond to its creation as in 1:18 - especially considering the knowledge of mythos you have, and how even demigods were neglected, let alone mortals, by the "gods" - usually unless you provide a blood or sexual sacrifice.

Then, recall this deity also claims to have made the sacrifice for us - and literally just wants us (in the context of Isaiah, especially.) You don't have to do it now, but those verses helped me understand why I should even entertain a God like Him.

I've already spent 30 years with and in the Bible, without direct experience of its deity.

I'm not sure I have a reason to return to it, especially in light of the fact that other paths promise similarly and I do not have an unlimited lifespan to explore them all, and because one other Path has already proven particularly fruitful to me (Buddhism).

Ygrene Imref · May 28, 2017

ananda said:
I've already spent 30 years with and in the Bible, without direct experience of its deity.

I understand that. So, it would be insulting to assume your Father doesnt. From what I understand, Buddhism is not a theistic philosophy - is that correct? It doesn't really matter (but, I want to know to reduce my own ignorance of the philosophy.) I ask because if it is a philosophy only, then you may inherently feel like you are missing something "more." Buddhism, as with other philosophies, tend to be good for a moral barometer. I still consider myself a philosophical cynic; I don't think mor philosophy separates you from Him unless it contradicts Him.

I am not trying to convert you at all, but I think what you have been through comes with the territory of vindication your faith. If it was so easy for you to have trust in Him, and what He says, then you would be an angel. He understands our natural existential default is to be against Him, but He is patient. This happened with me - decades of frustration, questions and literally going through the 5 stages of grief several times.

I'm not sure I have a reason to return to it, especially in light of the fact that other paths promise similarly and I do not have an unlimited lifespan to explore them all, and because one other Path has already proven particularly fruitful to me (Buddhism).

I think the fact that you aren't *certain* means you have a reason. And, I certainly understand the "getting it in my lifetime" concern. I had a similar concern for a while. Perhaps it has been thirty years for you so that you come to Him without lacking anything - no questions in trust. To parrot this again, that may be your exact path with respect to your personal relationship with Him. Tomorrow, or in another 30 years you may have an epiphany. Or, you may die a buddhist.

Parents sometimes have to watch in pain as they allow their children to make their own decisions - even and especially if it means rejecting them. But a Good parent will always be waiting for his/her child(ren) to return to them in trust, love and peace. Sometimes human relationships, alone, that takes 30 years. You have until your absolute last dying breath, and then likely even more time (as, I am not judge.)

If you truly, honestly, and deep down didn't care one bit for God, His existence and/or what He says, then I dont think you would be asking these important questions concerning your faith.

Either way, be well. I hope you will at least keep an open mind and heart, and try to give yourself some spiritual credit. There are a lot of entities much more powerful than us working hard to keep us in any type of chains - as long as we are in chains. I think we as humans perceive this "force" against us, which is why we naturally seek something "more" than us.

ananda · May 28, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
I understand that. So, it would be insulting to assume your Father doesnt. From what I understand, Buddhism is not a theistic philosophy - is that correct?

Early Buddhism is theistic in the sense that it recognizes the existence of innumerous deities, many of which are extremely powerful & live into the aeons, and some are under the delusion that they are Almighty and Eternal.

It doesn't really matter (but, I want to know to reduce my own ignorance of the philosophy.) I ask because if it is a philosophy only, then you may inherently feel like you are missing something "more." Buddhism, as with other philosophies, tend to be good for a moral barometer. I still consider myself a philosophical cynic; I don't think mor philosophy separates you from Him unless it contradicts Him.

I am not trying to convert you at all, but I think what you have been through comes with the territory of vindication your faith. If it was so easy for you to have trust in Him, and what He says, then you would be an angel. He understands our natural existential default is to be against Him, but He is patient. This happened with me - decades of frustration, questions and literally going through the 5 stages of grief several times.

I think the fact that you aren't *certain* means you have a reason. And, I certainly understand the "getting it in my lifetime" concern. I had a similar concern for a while. Perhaps it has been thirty years for you so that you come to Him without lacking anything - no questions in trust. To parrot this again, that may be your exact path with respect to your personal relationship with Him. Tomorrow, or in another 30 years you may have an epiphany. Or, you may die a buddhist.

Parents sometimes have to watch in pain as they allow their children to make their own decisions - even and especially if it means rejecting them. But a Good parent will always be waiting for his/her child(ren) to return to them in trust, love and peace. Sometimes human relationships, alone, that takes 30 years. You have until your absolute last dying breath, and then likely even more time (as, I am not judge.)

If you truly, honestly, and deep down didn't care one bit for God, His existence and/or what He says, then I dont think you would be asking these important questions concerning your faith.

Either way, be well. I hope you will at least keep an open mind and heart, and try to give yourself some spiritual credit. There are a lot of entities much more powerful than us working hard to keep us in any type of chains - as long as we are in chains. I think we as humans perceive this "force" against us, which is why we naturally seek something "more" than us.

My chosen Path is satisfying to me; I ask the questions in my OP because I wish to gain greater insight into the psychology behind faith, from other perspectives beyond my own. If something comes along that proves more satisfying, then I would be more than happy to "convert".

Perhaps there is a "God", but I cannot say that it is any one of the deities of the Koran, Torah, NT, or Vedas. Perhaps "God" will prove to be the Buddha in the end. Who knows? I am, at the moment, agnostic to any faith, preferring knowledge instead.

dlamberth · May 28, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
Because we are technically evil.

When I began to see the Divine in new born babies is when I threw that belief away.

ananda · May 28, 2017

dlamberth said:
When I began to see the Divine in new born babies is when I threw that belief away.

When I hear the first cry of suffering in a new born, I question the notion of a loving Almighty.

dlamberth · May 28, 2017

ananda said:
When I hear the first cry of suffering in a new born, I question the notion of a loving Almighty.

I guess I don't judge the presence of the Divine in a new born child by the degree of suffering during the miracle process of a new life form entering the world.

toLiJC · May 29, 2017

dlamberth said:
I think it depends upon how much of a reality God is to a person. "IF" God is an absolute reality for a person, they will "see" God everywhere they look. "IF" God is only a "belief", God will be limited in their reality. That's a spiritual truth.

what do you mean by "everywhere"?!, is the true God behind the evildoings?!

Blessings

Why seek "God"?

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