If you commit sin are you still of God? Yes or no

LoveofTruth said:

But read 1 John 3:8 John says whosoever comitteth sin is of the devil. The issue is with John's words not mine.

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John also says in 1 John 1:
7 But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.

LoveofTruth said:

and comment on 1 John 3:6 also. How do you understand that?

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I'm sure that there are many ways to look at 1 John but I feel that he is trying to get his followers to understand that we are not perfect and need Jesus' blood to cleanse us. When we sin, it is important to acknowledge that sin and ask for forgiveness to which we find forgiveness. 1 John 2 pours out the necessity for God's children to live in love as the New Commandment states. When we fail to love others, that shows that we are not living as God's children because if you hate another, that hate does not comes from God but from Satan. (1 John 3)

LoveofTruth said:

also 1 John 3:9 says if you are born of God you cannot sin. for Christ the Seed will give you victory as you abide in him. If you abide not in him then you sin and cannot claim to be walking in the light 1 John 1

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We must understand that God lives within us. We are temple of the Most High God through baptism in the Holy Spirit. BUT, we begin as babes who must learn to walk in the Spirit. Each of God's children learn differently and stumble as they learn to walk.
The world doesn't want us to walk and understand that God doesn't keep an account of his children's sins, Romans 4:
7 “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record.”

If we abide in God we will grow as believers and love others.[/B]

Alithis said:

yes - because if we do not then we show , by our action that we do not love god but we love the sin .
Jesus said repentance for the forgiveness of sin ios to be preached . one cannot continue to behave as they always have done and expect forgiveness . There MUST be a forsaking of that sinful behaviour in order to walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit

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Yes! I agree with you 100%

Also, I John chapter 1, especially verses 8-10.

8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

There is no real discussion the answer is yes. But we must consider motive for it is motive that is the key here. Paul stated "should we sin that grace may abound God forbid? That is about motive. For Jesus said in the beatitudes "blessed are those who a poor in spirit". That is about awareness of ones state. That the sinner is bankrupt of righteousness. Poor in spirit but and Jesus goes on "hunger and thirsting for righteousness". For the believer does not sin that God's grace may abound. He sins and hates it. Paul goes on..I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

This is the struggle. The motive is good but the flesh is wicked.

Ken Rank said:

I appreciate it but I don't believe I am in opposition to the Word on this. Please look at my post which appears just above this one, addressed to LoveofTruth. Thanks.

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But you believe you will be a slave to sin in this life and it is only after you die God will set you free from sin. Your belief is the most popular among Christians today. Not just that but while Scripture does teach that we can confess sin on our road to one day overcoming sin here, it does not teach that we will forever remain in a fallen state whereby confession is merely a paying of lip service to a life that is still enslaved to sin here on this Earth. With God all things are possible. God can give you the victory over sin according to His Word. We are not a defeated people. What might seem like a holy position to you in striving to fall down and get back up repeatedly your entire life is a reality that is not taught in Scripture. You may make inferences from certain verses that this is the case (especially like with the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee) but no actual text in Scripture says that we are to be in an endless cycle of getting dirty and then getting clean again over and over and over and over again. Yes, God can forgive a lot of what we do. But we have to honestly believe righteousness and walking uprightly is possible for our life and not any kind of enslavement to sin. To say that I am going to sin at some unknown future date is to declare you are going to do evil no matter what. You are making evil your master by saying such a thing even if you say you are fighting against it. In other words, it would be like a drug addict who says they are free from drugs because they fight against it and they only stumble on occasion. But they know they will do drugs again at some point in the future. This is not freedom. It is enslavement. They are not letting go of their sin. Therein lies the problem.


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MW2017 said:

Also, I John chapter 1, especially verses 8-10.

8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

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Part 1


Well, 1 John 1:8 is about denying sin's existence (if we say we have no sin when we do sin the truth is not in us). This is basically a person saying that "sin" does not apply to them in regards to their right standing with God. For 1 John 1:8 has to be read in context to 1 John 2:4. They are essentially saying the same thing (for if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments the truth is not in us). 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren against thinking the same way as the gnostics who denied sin's existence by thinking that there was no dire after death consequences if they did sin (1 John 2:26). Hence, why 1 John 1:9 is the next verse that follows - because it teaches a person what to do if they do happen to sin. 1 John 1:8 is written to the Christian Scientist today who thinks sin does not exist whatsoever. 1 John 1:8 is also written to the OSAS proponent (i.e. The Once Saved Always Saved believer) today because they partially deny sin's existence. For they believe they sin physically but yet they think sin does not exist for them on a spiritual level whatsoever because Christ paid for all their sins including present and future sins (Whereby they believe confession of sin is not necessary in order to be forgiven of sin). In other words, these types of believers ignore both 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:9 as a result of their denial of the consequences of sin (Note: Some OSAS proponents do differ slightly on this belief).

Anyways, the confusion on your part (among other people who think the same way) is quickly cleared up if you and others were to read the New English Translation that says,


or if you were to read the Expanded Bible, that says,


Note: The words in the brackets are my further explanation to the above verses.

I hope this helps.
And may God bless you, as well.



Part 2


First, the OSAS Interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not fit the context. Especially when John states, “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).. In fact, we see no surrounding text tell us anything to support the idea that the truth is not in us if we say we are not always sinning.

Second, the idea of saying we are always in sin would not be true, either. It is very easy to not sin for a day and or even a week being a born again believer in Jesus Christ. We can retreat to a forest and we can pray for a week with God’s Word, or we can simply pray so as not to be led into temptation and remove ourselves from sinful things. If you do not think it is not possible to do such a thing, do you think a person can stop sinning for 5 minutes? How about an hour? If such is the case, then the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 is clearly false.

Three, as for 1 John 1:8 being a warning to the person who denies sin’s existence: This is basically a person saying that "sin" does not apply to them in regards to their right standing with God. For as I said before, 1 John 2:4 says the same thing, but using different words. 1 John 3:4 says “sin is transgression of the Law.” Laws are the same thing as Commands. So not keeping the Commandments is sin. In light of this fact, this is what 1 John 2:4 says, “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments [i.e. sins], is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” ‭In other words, when one says they walk with God and yet they sin, the truth is not in them because they are ignoring sin (by breaking the commandments) in their self professed walk with God. For he that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8), and all who do evil hate the light (John 3:20).

Also, Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and that it does not exist. OSAS Proponents think that for a believer in Jesus, all sin is paid for (Including present and future sins that are not confessed). But 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9). So they deny the consequences of sin in relation to their right standing with God (Making it seem like sin has no effect in regards to their salvation). They deny confessing sins so as to be forgiven because they already believe they have been forgiven for all time (In regards to their right standing with God). But wouldn’t God have to agree with this wrong way of salvation or sin in order for such a plan of salvation to work? Can God agree with sin? Surely not. For God is good and all His ways are righteous and holy.

Four, who is the “WE” in 1 John chapter 1? The word “we” is an impersonal generic reference to everyone. While John was writing to certain believers warning them about the false gnostics who were trying to seduce them (1 John 2:26), we have to realize that the “we” is talking to all men. Please take note that I just said “we” in this last past sentence (using in the same way that John does). The Bible was ultimately written to all men. So while there are many instances where one writer is talking to a specific people or person, we also have to realize that many times their message had a wider application to ALL of mankind because it was to be divinely inspired Holy Scripture to lead man to have a right relationship with God.

Here is one way of stating 1 John 1:8 in the KJV,

“If we say that we have no sin [when we do sin], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

Here is another way of saying it,

“If we say that we have no sin [in the sense that sin does not apply to us or that sin does not exist], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
(1 John 1:8).

Anyways, I hope this helps.
May God's love and peace always be upon you.

Side Note:
All words in brackets are my commentary to Scripture.
Have a blessed day.
And take care.



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JESUS=G.O.A.T said:

After a period of time (this depends on the individual) you reach that sinless state. You stop having to go to God every month or whatever, for some that's right after being saved, for others that's some time during the first year in.

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Baloney! I have been a born-again, spirit filled Christian for 40 years! Nobody can STOP sinning. (1John 1:8 KJV) The best we can do is, through a process called Theosis--becoming more like God every day--we can finally get to the point when you face Jesus, He will say, "Well done!"

I have had some periods where I have not been trying to please God, but myself. There have been other times, wrestling with clinical depression, where I despaired of never getting to heaven. But for the past 40 years of my life, I have mostly done all I can do to please God. Yet even after 40 years, I still sin.

And there had not be any who say to me, "you are not saved." If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1John 1:8 KJV)

Monk Brendan said:

Baloney! I have been a born-again, spirit filled Christian for 40 years! Nobody can STOP sinning. (1John 1:8 KJV) The best we can do is, through a process called Theosis--becoming more like God every day--we can finally get to the point when you face Jesus, He will say, "Well done!"

I have had some periods where I have not been trying to please God, but myself. There have been other times, wrestling with clinical depression, where I despaired of never getting to heaven. But for the past 40 years of my life, I have mostly done all I can do to please God. Yet even after 40 years, I still sin.

And there had not be any who say to me, "you are not saved." If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1John 1:8 KJV)

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Yep. Its only on the internet people claim to be without any sin, and infer if you commit any sin God will cast, or threaten to cast you into hell.
They wouldn't get far peddling such nonsense in the real world, so we are stuck with them.
We all have our crosses to bear though!

LoveofTruth said:

Good words friend

especially these words

"But you believe you will be a slave to sin in this life and it is only after you die God will set you free from sin. Your belief is the most popular among Christians today....With God all things are possible. God can give you the victory over sin according to His Word. "

This is where many are tossed abut today, they do not believe that any can have victory over sin in Christ. They say we can do nothing, but scripture say we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. Christ came to die for our sins and rise again, this is true and also to destroy the works of the devil and all believers are actually made the righteousness of God in Christ not just declared to be imputed righteous alone. All believers are actually born again and have God working in them. If God is not working in a person then they can do nothing and have no victory. If believers are new creations in Christ and the old man is crucified, then what should we see in their life? We should see the life of Christ manifest in them and as Jesus is so are we in this world. Everyone that hats this hope in himself purifies himself even as he is pure.

"20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." (Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV)


1 John 3:3
"And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."

Philippians 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."

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Thank you brother.
Love those verses.
Two of my favorite verses that go ignored are the following.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).

In other words, believers today love to say how we are saved by Christ's sacrifice and resurrection (Which is a good thing), but they fail to preach the other half of the message in Scripture that says that Christ gave Himself for us for the purpose of redeeming us from all iniquity and in sanctifying us whereby we will not have any spot, wrinkle, or blemish and that we will be full of many good works as Titus 2:14 and Ephesians 5:25-27 says.


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Jason0047 said:

Actually Jesus said to the Pharisees the following words,

"He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:47).

John says,

"He that committeth sin is of the devil;" (1 John 3:8).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

Paul says,

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James says,

"God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).



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Glad you mentioned the Pharisees, they, like many today gave the impression they were virtually without sin, and demanded nigh on perfect obedience. They fooled many of the people, but they could not fool Jesus. They may have looked super holy on the outside, and through their words, but on the inside they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean.
That's what happens when you focus on the law and determine to perfectly obey it/strive to cease all sin to be justified for heaven

Jesus says,

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).

What words could Jesus be talking about that could potentially judge you?

See:

Matthew 5:22
Matthew 5:28-30
Matthew 6:15
Matthew 12:36-37
Luke 9:26

For Jesus will send forth his angels and gather out of HIS KINGDOM all who sin and work lawlessness and cast them into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire) (See Matthew 13:41-42.). It's why Jesus says to depart from Him to certain professing believers who worked lawlessness in Matthew 7.




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supertank said:

Yes. Agreed. I think some of you guys have lost some of the amazingness of the Gospel. God sent His Son to us BECAUSE we sin. Yes we sin all the time.
Here's a thought: Just be absolutely perfect and don't sin for the next 5 minutes. If you can do that then perfection is attainable on earth but the sad reality is it is Not. If by "of God' you mean being a Christian then yes you are a still of God. Once a Genuine Christian always a Genuine Christian. If there is absolutely no way a person can become a Christian by their own works then by their own works there is absolutely no way that they can stop being a Christian. Romans 8: 31-39


God's Everlasting Love
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

And in Romans 5:6-10
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

There are many more verses like it. If you have doubts as to if you are a Christian or not, which is completely understandable, then Do Not hesitate to go to Him and say "Lord you have said that those who come to you, you will not turn them away so here I am. Please help me to be one of your children."

But no amount of lawmaking will make us Christians just as no amount of law breaking will stop us being Christians.
In Romans 5:20-6:3 we read "Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."

I guess it is something concerning my point to say, If you commit sin, you are still of God.
I know there are some sins I cannot get away from and I think I have conquered it and then I trip up again but God is faithful because "no temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it." 1 Corinthians 10:13.

The difference I would say between Christians and non-Christians is that God does not let Christians EVER feel comfortable in their sin. If there is a sin you commit willfully or accidentally, you will not be comfortable with it. And if it concerns you that you have sinned in whatever way then that shows there is real life inside of you. Have you ever met a non-Christian who feels guilty for sinning? Basically, it will cause you to feel restless until you find your rest in God. The reason is there is a battle of the wills in our bodies, we desire to do the right thing but we are unable to do it without the working of the Holy Spirit.

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You hit the nail on the head. Christians are uncomfortable with their sin, they have a conscience about it, non christians dont.
For the law God desires you to keep I written on your mind and placed on your heart.
So one definition of a born again christian is, someone who has a conscience about their sin.

Great post BTW. Full of insight

In Jude 1:4 NIV, we are warned about those who turn the grace of our God into a doctrine for immorality.
Peter says there are false prophets who have eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin (See 2 Peter 2:1 and 2 Peter 2:14).
Paul says, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."
2 Timothy 3:1-9 says in the last days perilous times will come and that there will be those who are unholy, without natural affection, false accusers, lovers of pleasures more than they are lovers of God, having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof. Denying the power thereof. God Word says, With God all things are possible. Are you denying that God can help you to overcome sin in your life? 1 Peter 4:1 says that he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. David said he hid His Word (i.e. God's Word) in his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord (See Psalms 119:11).


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LoveofTruth said:

If you commit sin are you still of God?

Yes or no

and discussion

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YES

Romans 3 21-26 NIV
21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith inh Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,i through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Jason0047 said:

But you believe you will be a slave to sin in this life and it is only after you die God will set you free from sin.

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Not at all, all things are possible through Christ but neither you nor I have been perfected yet, therefore, by definition, we are imperfect. I will ask you the same thing I asked LoveofTruth earlier... “are you going to tell me that since you gave your life to Yeshua, that you have not sinned, not even once? Not an evil thought, a burst of anger that went beyond the boundaries of righteous anger? You haven't judged one unto condemnation? You haven't EVER yelled out a window or held up a hand and told the guy who cut you off that he was #1? EVERY WORD AND DEED of yours since you gave your life to him has ALWAYS reflected his character and added to his reputation?" The answer is no... you will from time to time error, and when you do you confess, repent, learn and move on. That isn't being a slave to sin, that is being the son of a merciful Father!

LoveofTruth said:

Very good verses

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They are, but they are not verses that are saying you are currently incapable of sinning. We have to remain balanced here...

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

The verses being hung on by John today, he said this after the ascension by many years. The difference is not staying in sin, practicing it, dwelling in it, remaining in it. Otherwise, the position you are forced to take is that you have already been perfected and yet you continue to age, decay, get disease, and die.