Having trouble with the concept of Heaven

Heaven is real! Fear not.


Revelation 21:4 - And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

1 Corinthians 2:9 - But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

John 14:2 - In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Revelation 22:1-5 - And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Luke 23:43 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Hebrews 11:16 - But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Revelation 21:22-27 - And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Revelation 21:21-25 - And the twelve gates [were] twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city [was] pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

2 Peter 3:13 - Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Luke 12:33 - Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Hebrews 13:14 - For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Revelation 21:1-5 - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21)

"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit." (Romans 14:17)

The Kingdom of Heaven is a state of being that is the result of God's Spirit (Holy Spirit) touching, in a mystical way, our own spirit. It is both coming in never ending fullness at the end of the ages and is here at present through repentance.

What helped me to begin to understand way back when I was only a recent high school graduate was reading the story of the encounter that a writer named Nicholas Motovilov had with a spiritual elder named Seraphim of Sarov. When you have some time and can relax enough to really get into it (because it's a bit of a long little story) you may want to check it out yourself. Here's a link to it: "Motovilov"

After having read this, I felt a need to follow the advice of the elder in order to learn for myself by experience if such things could be true. A bit later I discovered by experience that they are true.

Justice Bjorke said:

...............
Can anyone help me grasp the idea of Heaven, theologically and/or scripturally?

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May I recommend Randy Alcorn's book "Heaven"

It is widely accepted as being a very well written and, above all, scriptural treatment of the subject.

Randy is a former pastor of mine from almost 40 years ago. He is also a personal friend.

Having said that and recommended his book highly - I do not agree with his treatment across the board and without any qualifications. Many good theologians would disagree with me here and would agree with every single one of Randy's conclusions.

The book is well worth reading. Get a copy and it will be money well spent.

Justice Bjorke said:

As the title says, I'm really having a hard time grasping the idea of salvation, Heaven, or any kind of afterlife for that matter.

Reading the Gospels, particularly John made it seem to me that afterlife was not part of Jewish thought at that time, as they were shocked and took Jesus very literally when he said that His followers "will never see death." (John 8:51)

Now, I understand that this is one of many radical things Jesus said, and that He directly challenged and redefined the traditional Jewish school of thought. But I'm having a hard time seeing Heaven as a reality, although I still believe in it, because I believe that Jesus is who he said he is.
Verses like Ecclesiastes 9:5 frighten me. I don't want death to be a finality.

The one theological argument I have that supports the existence of Heaven is that God never intended death to exist, but it was a consequence of the fall of man, and Jesus' death was our reconciliation that allows God to restore His original intentions for humanity into those who are saved. I understand that this more or less is the central point and basis of our entire faith, but like I said, I still believe, and that is my reasoning. But salvation, and Heaven just seem so foreign.
Can anyone help me grasp the idea of Heaven, theologically and/or scripturally?

Click to expand...

In the OT, death is often simply a reflection of what we see happen. i.e., body dies and doesn't return to life. It "goes into the grave."

Ecclesiastes is a book with parts from a worldly perspective (which is what Solomon intended). Hopefully it is clear that the idea that "nothing matters" can not be correct. It is a statement made by someone experiencing the emptiness of life (which is all there is apart from God).

You see in the NT that the Pharisees believed in heavenly angels and the resurrection of humans from the dead. Heaven is not our final destination. It is the new earth. You might call heaven a place that God dwells where we get to rest until he creates the new earth and raises us from the "dead."

Jesus' statement that we will never die is based on the fact that when we are reborn, we are reborn connected to God ("in Christ") and our life is "hidden" in Christ. In other words, when we are a new creation, we acquire a new nature that is dependent upon God, not upon our bodies (or our sinful nature from Adam). Jesus said that even though we die (our bodies) we will never die (our spirits, who we "really are": our memories, consciousness, etc.).

Fundamentally, heaven is just where God dwells, so it definitely exists. When we die we go to be with God until the resurrection (after which we will still be with God in a different way, i.e., with bodies).

Do you not see a heavenly home for us as being consistent with an all Loving God?
As you said God showed us by putting man in the Garden first where He wants us to be, but the Garden was a lousy place for man to fulfill his earthly objective so now man is in the best place to fulfill his objective.

Justice Bjorke said:

Can anyone help me grasp the idea of Heaven, theologically and/or scripturally?

Click to expand...

The Father Created man for reasons of fellowship.
God had fellowship, but evidently more is better.

To have true "love" one enters into fellowship by choice.
This results in man having a choice and one option is not
in fellowship with God...called Hell.
Heaven is IN fellowship with The Father and that is Heaven.

Justice Bjorke said:

As the title says, I'm really having a hard time grasping the idea of salvation, Heaven, or any kind of afterlife for that matter.

Reading the Gospels, particularly John made it seem to me that afterlife was not part of Jewish thought at that time, as they were shocked and took Jesus very literally when he said that His followers "will never see death." (John 8:51)

Now, I understand that this is one of many radical things Jesus said, and that He directly challenged and redefined the traditional Jewish school of thought. But I'm having a hard time seeing Heaven as a reality, although I still believe in it, because I believe that Jesus is who he said he is.
Verses like Ecclesiastes 9:5 frighten me. I don't want death to be a finality.

The one theological argument I have that supports the existence of Heaven is that God never intended death to exist, but it was a consequence of the fall of man, and Jesus' death was our reconciliation that allows God to restore His original intentions for humanity into those who are saved. I understand that this more or less is the central point and basis of our entire faith, but like I said, I still believe, and that is my reasoning. But salvation, and Heaven just seem so foreign.
Can anyone help me grasp the idea of Heaven, theologically and/or scripturally?

Click to expand...

Death is not a finality to those who are true followers of Jesus saved by faith. Do you remember what Jesus said about Lazarus when he died? He said that Lazarus was sleeping but he was going to wake him up. Jesus here compared death to a sleep. When you sleep, at the moment you fall asleep you experience Eccl 9:5 but when you wake up, its like you closed your eyes for just a second. Just so is death and the resurrection will be at the second coming of Jesus when the dead will be resurrected. Then the promise that Jesus made in John 14: 1 - 3 will be fulfilled. He will take us to heaven to be with him.

OP: '(CONCEPTS)
Q1: Salvation, and
Q2: Heaven
Q3: "AFTERLIFE was not part of Jewish thought at that time,
Q4: "God never intended death to exist, but it was a consequence of the {fall of man}"

A3: I disagree.(all NASB)
1. Jesus the Christ preached on "Abraham's Bosom = Paradise + Hades"
The Rich Man and Lazarus...Luke 16:19-31
2. John 5:24 Jesus:..“Truly, truly, I say to you,
he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal (spiritual) life, and does not come into judgment, but "has passed" out of death into life.
3. 64 times the Hebrew word "Sheol" appears in the OT, ...the lowest grave in the earth
4. Acts 23:8
For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit,
but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.
5. Ecclesiastes 12:1,7... At "death"of the Body/Soul combo, SPIRIT returns to God who gave it!

A2: "heaven" occurs 456 times in 436 verses in the NASB, almost equally in the OT and the NT.

Genesis 2:4
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created,
in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

and heaven...Hebrew 8064...shamayim...visible heavens, sky; B.Heaven (as the abode of God)

Matthew 5:12
“Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

heaven...Greek 3772...ouranos...
I.the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it
A.the universe, the world (kozmos)
B.the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced (atmosphere)
C.the sidereal or starry heavens
II.the region ABOVE the sidereal heavens,
the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings (ANGELS + SAVED BELIEVERS)

THERE is but ONE "heaven" and ONE "earth"
provided for God (pure spirit) to relate to Man. (body/soul/spirit)
ONE heavenly REALM: the pre-existent TRI-UNEGod "created" both from infinity/eternity.
ONE earthly REALM prepared by God on which Man and life can dwell.

No man has ever seen God the Father...only manifestations.
But my guess is that TRI-UNE GOD will not "appear"
as a king on his throne with angels flittimg around Him in the "clouds".
No man has ever "seen" God's SPIRITUAL REALM...only promises of spiritual "eternal life".
There are no Biblical eyewitness reports by believers who went to "heaven" and returned to describe it.

John 4:24
God is spirit,
and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

God.. a Spirit..His spiritual realm is SPIRIT!

Psalm 99...Metaphors!
The Lord reigns, let the peoples tremble;
He is enthroned above the cherubim, let the earth shake!...
Exalt the Lord our God
And worship at His footstool;
Holy is He...
Exalt the Lord our God
And worship at His holy hill,
For holy is the Lord our God.

Revelation 21...Metaphors!
Then I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth;
for the first heaven and the first earth passed away,
and there is no longer any sea.
And I saw the holy city, NEW Jerusalem,
coming DOWN out of heaven from God,
made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying,
“Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men,
and He will dwell among them, and
they shall be His people, and
God Himself will be among them, (Eden-like)
and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes;
and there will no longer be any death;
there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

2 Peter 3: 1-13...Peter's Prophecy of "The Coming Day of the Lord"...and New Heavens and a New Earth

New Heavens and a New Earth

But "the day of the Lord" will come like a thief,
in which the heavens (atmosphere) will pass away with a roar and the elements (living / matter) will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works (people / life) will be burned up.
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way,
what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,looking for and hastening "the coming of the day of God", because of which the heavens (atmosphere) will be destroyed by burning,
and the elements (living /matter) will melt with intense heat!
But according to His promise we are looking for "New Heavens and a New Earth", in which righteousness dwells.

John 14: 1-3 (NASB)....Jesus Comforts His Disciples
“Do not let your heart be troubled;
believe in God, believe also in Me.
In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; (NOT dwellings! Not apartments! Not SPACE!)

{"places"...Greek 3438...mone...a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode...metaphor of the God the Holy Spirit indwelling believers

if it were not so, I would have told you;
for I go to prepare a PLACE for you.

{place"... Greek 5117....topos...the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly

If I go and prepare a place for you,
I will COME AGAIN (Second Coming!) and receive you to Myself, (SEE: 1 Thess. 4!)
that where I am, there you may be also.
And you know the WAY where I am going.”

Matthew 3:16-17 ...A glimpse of the TRI-UNE GOD!
After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God DESCENDING as (like) a dove and lighting on Him,17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

Hebrews 9:24
For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God (the Father) for us;

1 Peter 3:22
who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

Revelation 19:1 [ The Fourfold Hallelujah ]
After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying,
“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God;

A4: The Bible does not say "mankind/A&E" "fell". FROM where? TO where?
This is a false man-made doctrine. (like "original sin")
e.g Lucifer/followers were cast down FROM "heaven" TO "earth"
God is all everything,
He fore-knew (omniscience) of A&E's DISOBEDIENCE
and DISCIPLINED them and the serpent (devil) therefore. Genesis 3.

A1: NEXT!

A1: SALVATION!

Saved FROM what? = ETERNAL separation FROM God
Saved UNTO what? = ETERNAL presence WITH God

Saved FROM what? = SENTENCED to the "lake of fire"
Saved UNTO what? = The spiritual HEAVENLY REALM with the TRI-UNE GOD + angels + saved believers.

Do not search forever or try on your own to keep the "Law". Find the truth in the Bible NOW! Focus on: What must I do to be spiritually changed...saved!?!
Spiritually discern John 3 + Ephesians 2. Read ALL written by John the Elder: Gospel, Letters,Revelation.

Being saved and becoming a "child of God" (believer) is Man's spiritual CHOICE:

1 Chronicles 28:9...King David to his son:
“As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts.
If you seek Him, He will let you find Him;
BUT if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today,
that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock;
if anyone hears My voice and opens the door,
I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Man's spirit must ACCEPT the spiritual calling/drawing of God!

John 1:12,14 (NIV)
Yet to all who received him,
to those who believed in his name,
he gave the right to become "children of God"...(SAVED!)
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, (Jesus) who came from (God) the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me DRAWS him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, (enquiring disciples)
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life;
no one comes to the Father but THROUGH Me.

John 5:24 (all NASB)...(Jesus"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has "eternal (spiritual) life,
and does not come into judgment, but "has passed" out of death into life.(NOW!)

1 John 3:14..We (believers) know that we "have passed" out of death into life..(NOW!)

Luke 7:50...And He said to the woman (CAUGHT IN SIN), "Your faith "has" "saved" you; go in peace." (NOW!)

Ephesians 2: 4-5,8-10
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 MADE US ALIVE with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
—it is by grace (unmerited Love/Mercy/favor) you have been saved.
8 For by GRACE (Love/Mercy) you have been SAVED through FAITH;
and that (FAITH/BELIEF) not of yourselves,
it is the (spiritual) GIFT of God;
9 NOT as a result of WORKS, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

LOOK FOR: Save/Salvation in your Bible searches!
Learn about "substitutionary atonement"...What Jesus the Christ, the Divine Messiah, the God-Man did FOR you!

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ died FOR (ALL) sins once FOR ALL (MANKIND) (FOR ALL time),
the righteous (Jesus)
FOR the unrighteous (Mankind),
to bring you to God. (reconciliation / salvation)
He was put to death in the body(/Soul on the Cross)
but made alive by the Spirit, (resurrection, appearances, ascension)

Justice Bjorke said:

As the title says, I'm really having a hard time grasping the idea of salvation, Heaven, or any kind of afterlife for that matter.

Reading the Gospels, particularly John made it seem to me that afterlife was not part of Jewish thought at that time, as they were shocked and took Jesus very literally when he said that His followers "will never see death." (John 8:51)

Now, I understand that this is one of many radical things Jesus said, and that He directly challenged and redefined the traditional Jewish school of thought. But I'm having a hard time seeing Heaven as a reality, although I still believe in it, because I believe that Jesus is who he said he is.
Verses like Ecclesiastes 9:5 frighten me. I don't want death to be a finality.

The one theological argument I have that supports the existence of Heaven is that God never intended death to exist, but it was a consequence of the fall of man, and Jesus' death was our reconciliation that allows God to restore His original intentions for humanity into those who are saved. I understand that this more or less is the central point and basis of our entire faith, but like I said, I still believe, and that is my reasoning. But salvation, and Heaven just seem so foreign.
Can anyone help me grasp the idea of Heaven, theologically and/or scripturally?

Click to expand...

The gospel has been from the beginning. The introduction of the Mankind race, the image of GOD, in defining the GOD of creation, not to the mankind race, but to the other celestial beings, the Cherubim, Seraphim and Angels, began the gospel.

The good news of the gospel is that the mortal man, who acquired a limited life span in the fall can live without tasting death at all, to defeat the mortal nature and death.

The first person to preach the gospel was the principal ancestor of Mankind, the one defining the GOD, made in HIS image and likeness. He was the one that experienced the fall. He raised and marked the first Angel of the First Church age, Enoch, who preached the gospel while running his race until he became born again and transfigured in life, completing his race, unto salvation, and has to leave the earth to heaven alive, because heaven is a real and physical place, not a ghost world.

Other Angels of different Church ages tried but couldn't complete their race, as many were defeated by ageing and the mortal nature. Elijah of Tishbe was the 2nd person to experience what it means to be born again in life without dying.

Living without dying is the salvation that awaits any mortal man who dares to do what it takes. This is the essence of the glorious command given to man in Genesis 1:26

This was what John 8:51-52 is all about