Was Jesus nice to everyone?

DoubtfulSalvation

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Are you in agreement with this, below?

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Yes, I can't deny those things as truth. But, I'm not perfect. I don't feel regenerated or that some miraculous power runs my life. I feel very confused and disconnected with the bible and the world around me (moral issues with the OT). Condemned by some. So, I'm not very sure. But, I do not disagree with anything you posted or think of it as being anything other than complete fact.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Yes, I can't deny those things as truth. But, I'm not perfect. I don't feel regenerated or that some miraculous power runs my life. I feel very confused and disconnected with the bible and the world around me (moral issues with the OT). Condemned by some. So, I'm not very sure. But, I do not disagree with anything you posted or think of it as being anything other than complete fact.

There are very intellectually satisfying answers to those questions and more, but I get the sense you are not here searching for them, but rather already have the answers. If I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected.
 
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DoubtfulSalvation

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There are very intellectually satisfying answers to those questions and more, but I get the sense you are not here searching for them, but rather already have the answers. If I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected.
I won't deny that I've come to my own conclusion about things, but am constantly putting my conclusions against new information. I understand the idea of something being intellectually satisfying and I can certainly take comfort in those things, but as a father of four there are some issues in my heart that I struggle with. All that aside, do you think I'm saved with the information you have thus far? I know no one likes to answer that, but just humor me if you would.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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I won't deny that I've come to my own conclusion about things, but am constantly putting my conclusions against new information. I understand the idea of something being intellectually satisfying and I can certainly take comfort in those things, but as a father of four there are some issues in my heart that I struggle with. All that aside, do you think I'm saved with the information you have thus far? I know no one likes to answer that, but just humor me if you would.

I've had many, many issues with my faith, many years ago, but they were rough. I, as a Christian, was very angry at God. to say I hated Him wouldn't be an understatement. I doubted many things, and life seemed very unjust to me. There are many who would have said to me that I wasn't a Christian, back then, but quite frankly, only a Christian could have such struggles. If I were an atheist, I wouldn't have cared, right?

The greatest help, the man I own an eternal debt of gratitude to, and who you might find helpful as well, is Tim Keller. Pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in NYC, and author of many books.

I can't separate weeds from chaff. Even if I knew you we'll I couldn't, so no answer to that question, other than what I said above.

God is just, and He is merciful. Those who humble themselves, and first acknowledge Him as King find out that He is a King who stoops low enough to rescue His subjects. PM me if you have an interest in some resources.

"Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (Matt 11:29)
 
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~Anastasia~

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I won't deny that I've come to my own conclusion about things, but am constantly putting my conclusions against new information. I understand the idea of something being intellectually satisfying and I can certainly take comfort in those things, but as a father of four there are some issues in my heart that I struggle with. All that aside, do you think I'm saved with the information you have thus far? I know no one likes to answer that, but just humor me if you would.

No one living on earth is "saved" yet ... the final judgement is in the future, and people who have not completed their life course - anything is possible.

Except I realize that some don't believe apostasy is possible. But of course we hope for better things among those we encounter. :)
 
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timewerx

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My friend Carol was a tough one, she rejected the gospel even on her death bed, and when it was offered to her yet again, she had the person removed from her hospital room...she died shortly there after...we were so grieved over Carol's death because in life she was so caring and went out of her way to do things for others but wanted absolutely NOTHING to do with God or the Bible.


Think of the Good Samaritan. Maybe she got saved.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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No one living on earth is "saved" yet ... the final judgement is in the future, and people who have not completed their life course - anything is possible.

Except I realize that some don't believe apostasy is possible. But of course we hope for better things among those we encounter. :)

That's not the position of most Protestants, for the sake of those watching who may be confused by such an idea.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. (John 5:24)​
 
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~Anastasia~

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That's not the position of most Protestants, for the sake of those watching who may be confused by such an idea.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. (John 5:24)​

I know. :)

But I was answering the OP truthfully. A little concern for the sake of one's soul can be a good thing, if it makes one have a care. The Scriptures are full of such admonishments. :)

Do you really think what I said would confuse people? It is true enough ...
 
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Victor E.

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I was wondering because Jesus did a lot of things that our Priests, Pastors, Ministry leaders, Popes, etc. wouldn't do -- that is say something or do something straight up even if it hurts or makes people very angry. They also do a lot of things that Jesus wouldn't do...

We often hear "be like Jesus" or "what would Jesus do?"

But what did Jesus do in these particular situations?:

- Called His Jewish adversaries "sons of the devil" and liars and murderers (John 8:44)

- Looked at His adversaries with anger (Mark 3:5)

- Became hostile at the merchants at the temple (John 2:15-16)

- Jesus and God did not want to forgive some people (John 12:40-41, Isaiah 6:10, Revelations 11:12)

- Jesus prevented many from hearing the Gospel or did not intend everyone to hear it (Matthew 7:6, Matthew 13:13, Proverbs 9:8)

- Jesus rather easily gave up on people who refuse to believe....Jesus didn't "hard-sell" the Gospel as many Christians do and also instructed His disciples to do the same. (Mark 6:11, Matthew 13:13 Ezekiel 3:27, Daniel 12:10)

- Did not called/run after or followed up on those who left Him (John 6:66-67)

- Condemned His adversaries (John 8:21)


What really is Jesus like??? I'm sorry but it didn't look like the same image we made Him to be in our religion. He wasn't the "let's sing kumbaya" type and rather heavily used discernment and seem not intent on saving everyone. Something seems to be wrong.
.
.
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The short answer? Yes. Where He could not show mercy with love. He showed mercy with fear out of the Truth.

In everything we do, we do out of fear, or we do out of love. Christ was without sin, even if the carnal understanding claims that He sinned.

"Let the wicked forsake his way
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
And let him return to the LORD,
And He will have compassion on him,
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.

“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:7-9

Truth isn't a people-pleaser, but a Spirit-pleaser.

"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24
 
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DoubtfulSalvation

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No one living on earth is "saved" yet ... the final judgement is in the future, and people who have not completed their life course - anything is possible.

Except I realize that some don't believe apostasy is possible. But of course we hope for better things among those we encounter. :)
We probably could get into some good discussion about verses in Ephesians that talks about the Holy Spirit sealing the believer and then why does God call people born again. We don't have to go there though. It's pretty over done and everyone believes what they will.
 
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SolomonVII

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Jesus was compassionate and empathetic. Like the Buddha, he had the inability to see suffering without determining the cause of that suffering, and acting against the cause.
Often, the cause of suffering is other people. "Hell is other people" is the famous Satre expression, and for anyone who is determined to shake loose the gates of hell must be prepared to oppose other people.

To use the popular jargon, Jesus was definitely not politically correct. Truth was much more higher priority to him than feelings. That is not to say that he would not sometimes soften the hard edges of truth to comfort the grieving, such as was the case of telling the family of Lazarus that Lazarus was merely sleeping.

But it is not a kindness to refrain from speaking truth to power, as Jesus often did. It is not an unkindness to provoke people into understanding the reasons and purposes that will set them free.
Perhaps more than any person who ever lived, Jesus proposed that we find ways to place compassion and mercy, and nice values such as these, at the top of the hierarchy of values. Feed the hungry, heal the sick, redeem the convicted has motivated Christianized societies ever since to find ways to care for the poor, or set up hospitals, or reform the methods of penal justice. And that is as nice as nice can be.
But our rather modern understanding of 'niceness' of safe spaces and trigger warnings have warped the meaning of what it means to be kind.

It is not kindness or niceness that keeps us from speaking out against errors in judgment and sin, and letting people carry on down the road to hell without an ounce or warning or reproof. That is just cowardice.
And whatever else you may say about Jesus, he was no coward. His sharp tongue got him into plenty of trouble, to the point were he was nailed to the cross.


At this point it really needs to be added that sin has corrupted our own tongues to where we often use the truth as a cudgel and a means of power to keep others down by tying them to their sin. It is sin that makes us so poor at finding the correct path between reproof and compassion for already suffering souls.
But that describes who we are, and not who Jesus was. He really is the Way for us to follow. No he was not unkind in his reproofs. But we may just be unkind in our own, and that too is an all-too-human trait that we need to guard against too.
 
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~Anastasia~

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We probably could get into some good discussion about verses in Ephesians that talks about the Holy Spirit sealing the believer and then why does God call people born again. We don't have to go there though. It's pretty over done and everyone believes what they will.

It's pretty likely in most cases that folks won't change their mind. You are right about that. Firmness in faith is a good thing in itself though. Discussion is good, but I don't like to see people just posting Scripture in opposition to Scripture. Not saying that's what you would do. :) But yes, there is place for both ways of speaking.

I should add that after baptism we are anointed with Holy Chrism (a specially prepared oil) and the words are "sealed with the Holy Spirit". So I don't disagree on that point. :)

We pretty much all know whether or not we are on the path to salvation and following God. :)

And we also know that God is faithful on His end. :)

I think the best way to explain why we don't speak of salvation as a foregone conclusion is that we don't want to be presumptuous or prideful - there have been cases of those who apostasized.

But if we only stay on the path of faith and do not turn from God, that is our part.

Again, I do know there are others who believe differently. But for many, perhaps not as different as it might seem at first. :)

God be with you. :)
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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Maybe we need to ask how often did Jesus rebuke the gentiles, and now many times did Jesus rebuke fellow believers?(which would be jews in his context) perhaps that will give you the clue as to who we, as Christians, are to rebuke.

The hardest part most ch ristians in the western world cant seem to domis tomorocllaim the Gospel wi th o it directly declsring the Gospel. which is so,ething we shoild be doing 24/7, but mostly us americans beleive in direct confrontation as the means to distrbuting truth when a manority of the chridtisn world does not deal with problems like that.
 
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timewerx

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There is a time and a place for hard truths, but one must be called of God to know when to give it.

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

If we believe in Jesus, then we are called of God. Because Jesus also believed in the Father and did the works of God.
 
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Danny snape

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I was wondering because Jesus did a lot of things that our Priests, Pastors, Ministry leaders, Popes, etc. wouldn't do -- that is say something or do something straight up even if it hurts or makes people very angry. They also do a lot of things that Jesus wouldn't do...

We often hear "be like Jesus" or "what would Jesus do?"

But what did Jesus do in these particular situations?:

- Called His Jewish adversaries "sons of the devil" and liars and murderers (John 8:44)

- Looked at His adversaries with anger (Mark 3:5)

- Became hostile at the merchants at the temple (John 2:15-16)

- Jesus and God did not want to forgive some people (John 12:40-41, Isaiah 6:10, Revelations 11:12)

- Jesus prevented many from hearing the Gospel or did not intend everyone to hear it (Matthew 7:6, Matthew 13:13, Proverbs 9:8)

- Jesus rather easily gave up on people who refuse to believe....Jesus didn't "hard-sell" the Gospel as many Christians do and also instructed His disciples to do the same. (Mark 6:11, Matthew 13:13 Ezekiel 3:27, Daniel 12:10)

- Did not called/run after or followed up on those who left Him (John 6:66-67)

- Condemned His adversaries (John 8:21)


What really is Jesus like??? I'm sorry but it didn't look like the same image we made Him to be in our religion. He wasn't the "let's sing kumbaya" type and rather heavily used discernment and seem not intent on saving everyone. Something seems to be wrong.
.
.
.
I was wondering because Jesus did a lot of things that our Priests, Pastors, Ministry leaders, Popes, etc. wouldn't do -- that is say something or do something straight up even if it hurts or makes people very angry. They also do a lot of things that Jesus wouldn't do...

We often hear "be like Jesus" or "what would Jesus do?"

But what did Jesus do in these particular situations?:

- Called His Jewish adversaries "sons of the devil" and liars and murderers (John 8:44)

- Looked at His adversaries with anger (Mark 3:5)

- Became hostile at the merchants at the temple (John 2:15-16)

- Jesus and God did not want to forgive some people (John 12:40-41, Isaiah 6:10, Revelations 11:12)

- Jesus prevented many from hearing the Gospel or did not intend everyone to hear it (Matthew 7:6, Matthew 13:13, Proverbs 9:8)

- Jesus rather easily gave up on people who refuse to believe....Jesus didn't "hard-sell" the Gospel as many Christians do and also instructed His disciples to do the same. (Mark 6:11, Matthew 13:13 Ezekiel 3:27, Daniel 12:10)

- Did not called/run after or followed up on those who left Him (John 6:66-67)

- Condemned His adversaries (John 8:21)


What really is Jesus like??? I'm sorry but it didn't look like the same image we made Him to be in our religion. He wasn't the "let's sing kumbaya" type and rather heavily used discernment and seem not intent on saving everyone. Something seems to be wrong.
.
.
.
.

Look at my posts it may help!
 
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Disciple37

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John 12:40-41

“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”[a]
41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.

This is why you read the chapter and the book that is being written so as to understand the scripture. This is taken out of context

Lets take a look at everything that pertains to those verses.


John 12:37–50

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. 42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
---------------------------------------------
Lets take a look at something that is going on here. The verse above explains everything for you, but a couple of quick points.

1) They would not believe (v. 37) though they had seen the evidence for His divine nature.

2) They could not believe (v. 39) because their hearts became hard and their eyes blind.

3) God said They should not believe (v. 39) because they had rejected His grace.


Isaiah 55:6–7
6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, Call ye upon him while he is near:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts: And let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; And to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

This tells unbelievers when God sends an opportunity to receive grace, salvation, to teach them truth, they better take it. There's only so many opportunities he gives before he allows you to rest in your unbelief. He knows before hand that you will reject him. However, regardless that he knows already that you will reject him or not, he still allows you opportunities to be saved. This is because when you come before him during judgement and cry out Lord I didn't know. He'll tell you i sent him, i showed you this, and I sent him again, and I sent him, I sent you here to learn. You will be without excuse because of the creation around you and the opportunities he gives you spiritually. You have all the proof that you need. I didn't know or I didn't understand wont be an excuse.

----------------------------

These verses give even more understanding to the what Christ was saying and which was said several other times throughout the word of God.

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,

And seeing you will see and not perceive;

15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.

Their ears are hard of hearing,

And their eyes they have closed,

Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,

Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,

So that I should heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

------------------------------

Reading these verses should give you a clear picture of what is happening.

The bible states that God blinds the eyes and hardens the hearts of those who continue rejecting Christ. This type of verse is found several times in the Bible, and each time it speaks of judgment on unbelievers who continue to reject God's opportunities of salvation.

If you look at the verses above, you see how important it is to not just read a verse, but everything that is around it.

----------------------------------

This thing can be done for every single verse you pulled out of context. When God is angry he has every right to be angry. He forgives all who trust him and ask. God has a righteous anger and is a jealous God. He is our creator and wants our love. He doesn't want your love going to some false idle or nothing. He loves you and he wants you to love him back. He created you. Is it really wrong for your creator to want you to love him?
 
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timewerx

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The bible states that God blinds the eyes and hardens the hearts of those who continue rejecting Christ. This type of verse is found several times in the Bible, and each time it speaks of judgment on unbelievers who continue to reject God's opportunities of salvation.

I simply pointed out that Jesus/God doesn't want some people saved.

What you said there is obviously one of them.


This thing can be done for every single verse you pulled out of context.

You also ended up with the same conclusion as I did that Jesus/God doesn't want some people saved.


When God is angry he has every right to be angry. He forgives all who trust him and ask. God has a righteous anger and is a jealous God. He is our creator and wants our love. He doesn't want your love going to some false idle or nothing. He loves you and he wants you to love him back. He created you. Is it really wrong for your creator to want you to love him?

Except that His anger in this case will very likely cause the one He's angry at to lose their salvation. That is a very big deal.
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.
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SolomonVII

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I simply pointed out that Jesus/God doesn't want some people saved.

1 Timothy 2
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,​

4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.​


2 Peter 3:
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

The Bible is an incredibly difficult book to understand.
To come to the conclusion that God does not want some people saved based in the Bible must therefore also somehow come to terms with passages that say the exact opposite, that God's deep desire and heartfelt wish is that all men be saved, and that none perish.
 
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If He was God in the flesh, a position I happen to hold, then He had an ability we do not... He could see the heart and perceive the thoughts of others. Without that ability, we simply can't afford some of His reactions because He was privy to insights we lack. So personally for me, I try to extend grace beyond what might be called for... because if I am in error, I would rather error on the side of trying to be too merciful, then to error being quick and hard to judge.
Right! Jesus was fully god and man at the same time... So unlike us he could see peoples true motives .... A lot of people want to use Jesus as an excuse to call people devils and liars for no reason.
 
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