Was Jesus nice to everyone?

[timewerx]

I was wondering because Jesus did a lot of things that our Priests, Pastors, Ministry leaders, Popes, etc. wouldn't do -- that is say something or do something straight up even if it hurts or makes people very angry. They also do a lot of things that Jesus wouldn't do...

We often hear "be like Jesus" or "what would Jesus do?"

But what did Jesus do in these particular situations?:

- Called His Jewish adversaries "sons of the devil" and liars and murderers (John 8:44)

- Looked at His adversaries with anger (Mark 3:5)

- Became hostile at the merchants at the temple (John 2:15-16)

- Jesus and God did not want to forgive some people (John 12:40-41, Isaiah 6:10, Revelations 11:12)

- Jesus prevented many from hearing the Gospel or did not intend everyone to hear it (Matthew 7:6, Matthew 13:13, Proverbs 9:8)

- Jesus rather easily gave up on people who refuse to believe....Jesus didn't "hard-sell" the Gospel as many Christians do and also instructed His disciples to do the same. (Mark 6:11, Matthew 13:13 Ezekiel 3:27, Daniel 12:10)

- Did not called/run after or followed up on those who left Him (John 6:66-67)

- Condemned His adversaries (John 8:21)


What really is Jesus like??? I'm sorry but it didn't look like the same image we made Him to be in our religion. He wasn't the "let's sing kumbaya" type and rather heavily used discernment and seem not intent on saving everyone. Something seems to be wrong.
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[Godlovesmetwo]

He wasn't the "let's sing kumbaya" type

I'm glad about that.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not seeing anything controversial here. God is tough on his enemies and those who reject Him. This is nothing new nor is it wrong. If you are a friend of Jesus, he will be very nice but if you are his opposition you are not going to get the nice Jesus treatment

 

[DingDing]

Hello, I do have some issues with some of what you wrote. In part, you said...

...
- Jesus and God did not want to forgive some people (John 12:40-41, Isaiah 6:10, Revelations 11:12)

- Jesus prevented many from hearing the Gospel or did not intend everyone to hear it (Matthew 7:6, Matthew 13:13, Proverbs 9:8)

- Jesus rather easily gave up on people who refuse to believe....Jesus didn't "hard-sell" the Gospel as many Christians do and also instructed His disciples to do the same. (Mark 6:11, Matthew 13:13 Ezekiel 3:27, Daniel 12:10)

- Did not called/run after or followed up on those who left Him (John 6:66-67)
...

What really is Jesus like??? I'm sorry but it didn't look like the same image we made Him to be in our religion. He wasn't the "let's sing kumbaya" type and rather heavily used discernment and seem not intent on saving everyone. Something seems to be wrong.

The verses you quote don't really support what you have attributed to them. We can discuss these, but Jesus did not intentionally prevent people from hearing or being forgiven. It was the hardness of their own hearts which prevented them from hearing and seeing. I see a lot of assumptions in your interpretation of these verses which is not right - that is what is wrong. If you want, pick one of your points above and we can talk through the verses associated with that point and your conclusion from them.

 

[timewerx]

but Jesus did not intentionally prevent people from hearing or being forgiven.

John 12:40-41

“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”[a]
41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.

 

[Ken Rank]

I was wondering because Jesus did a lot of things that our Priests, Pastors, Ministry leaders, Popes, etc. wouldn't do -- that is say something or do something straight up even if it hurts or makes people very angry. They also do a lot of things that Jesus wouldn't do...

We often hear "be like Jesus" or "what would Jesus do?"

But what did Jesus do in these particular situations?:

- Called His Jewish adversaries "sons of the devil" and liars and murderers (John 8:44)

- Looked at His adversaries with anger (Mark 3:5)

- Became hostile at the merchants at the temple (John 2:15-16)

- Jesus and God did not want to forgive some people (John 12:40-41, Isaiah 6:10, Revelations 11:12)

- Jesus prevented many from hearing the Gospel or did not intend everyone to hear it (Matthew 7:6, Matthew 13:13, Proverbs 9:8)

- Jesus rather easily gave up on people who refuse to believe....Jesus didn't "hard-sell" the Gospel as many Christians do and also instructed His disciples to do the same. (Mark 6:11, Matthew 13:13 Ezekiel 3:27, Daniel 12:10)

- Did not called/run after or followed up on those who left Him (John 6:66-67)

- Condemned His adversaries (John 8:21)


What really is Jesus like??? I'm sorry but it didn't look like the same image we made Him to be in our religion. He wasn't the "let's sing kumbaya" type and rather heavily used discernment and seem not intent on saving everyone. Something seems to be wrong.
.
.
.

If He was God in the flesh, a position I happen to hold, then He had an ability we do not... He could see the heart and perceive the thoughts of others. Without that ability, we simply can't afford some of His reactions because He was privy to insights we lack. So personally for me, I try to extend grace beyond what might be called for... because if I am in error, I would rather error on the side of trying to be too merciful, then to error being quick and hard to judge.

 

[wayfaring man]

timewerx said: ↑

" I was wondering because Jesus did a lot of things that our Priests, Pastors, Ministry leaders, Popes, etc. wouldn't do -- that is say something or do something straight up even if it hurts or makes people very angry. They also do a lot of things that Jesus wouldn't do..."

-----------------------------------------

In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. <---> Acts 8:33

************************

Christ is the ultimately, 'hard act to follow'.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Was Jesus nice to everyone?

Only to the people that didn't deserve it.

To the "respectable" and hypocritical gatekeepers of morality He had plenty of not nice things to say.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Radrook]

He wasn't nice to the Pharisees.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If He was God in the flesh, a position I happen to hold, then He had an ability we do not... He could see the heart and perceive the thoughts of others. Without that ability, we simply can't afford some of His reactions because He was privy to insights we lack. So personally for me, I try to extend grace beyond what might be called for... because if I am in error, I would rather error on the side of trying to be too merciful, then to error being quick and hard to judge.

In comparing Christ to our priests, our selves, etc. this is EXACTLY what I would say.

Christ could not only know their hearts, but their ultimate end as well, perhaps. And that is NOT our place to judge, nor can we know their hearts.

I too would rather err on the side of mercy. With what judgement you mete out, by that same judgement will you be judged. It is mercy I ask for. Everything else rests in God's judgement. I will ask mercy on them as well.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

If we don't understand that it was loving to rebuke the Pharisees, then we don't understand what love is. We have replaced it with "nice".

 

[DingDing]

Hello, I do have some issues with some of what you wrote. In part, you said...

The verses you quote don't really support what you have attributed to them. We can discuss these, but Jesus did not intentionally prevent people from hearing or being forgiven. It was the hardness of their own hearts which prevented them from hearing and seeing. I see a lot of assumptions in your interpretation of these verses which is not right - that is what is wrong. If you want, pick one of your points above and we can talk through the verses associated with that point and your conclusion from them.

John 12:40-41

“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”[a]
41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.

So I take it you want to discuss the point you associated with this verse [John 12:40] (where you said that "Jesus and God did not want to forgive some people"). I would recommend reading all passages which quote these or similar words, including Acts 28:27. Then work on understanding where the original quote came from (Isaiah 6:10). You will need to read all that leads in to this verse - all of Isaiah from the start - and a thorough understanding of the bible would also help. (So if you have not read the whole bible before, now is the time to start. Which brings up a good question: Have you read and studied the whole bible, or have you only read select portions? That right there could be part of your problem.) But for now, start with the reading of the verse above from Acts and the first 5 chapters of Isaiah, and then let me know if that gives you any insight.

 

[timewerx]

If He was God in the flesh, a position I happen to hold, then He had an ability we do not... He could see the heart and perceive the thoughts of others. Without that ability, we simply can't afford some of His reactions because He was privy to insights we lack. So personally for me, I try to extend grace beyond what might be called for... because if I am in error, I would rather error on the side of trying to be too merciful, then to error being quick and hard to judge.

If you read the entire Bible, Jesus wasn't exactly reading people's minds.

Jesus recognized His adversaries from prophecies and teachings from the Old Testament.

Jesus basically categorized those to avoid as:

- The unbelieving - especially those who continued to disbelieve despite facts/evidences at hand. (The Pharisees fell in this category)
- The mockers/scoffers/fools-greedy (Sometimes the Pharisees fell here, otherwise, many people fall in this category and easy to discern)
- The slanderers - the worst kind (Pharisees also fell in this category)

All of the people that Jesus ignored or confronted/rebuked fell in those categories....They all have one thing in common, they all believe a lie and they scoff at the Truth even if the facts are right in front of them.

It is as potent and simple today as yesterday. If that is not enough:

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

[timewerx]

He wasn't nice to the Pharisees.

Indeed, and He was also not nice to many more like the merchants at the Temple, the bad thief with Him the cross whom He ignored, the rich young ruler

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I was wondering because Jesus did a lot of things that our Priests, Pastors, Ministry leaders, Popes, etc. wouldn't do -- that is say something or do something straight up even if it hurts or makes people very angry. They also do a lot of things that Jesus wouldn't do...

We often hear "be like Jesus" or "what would Jesus do?"

But what did Jesus do in these particular situations?:

- Called His Jewish adversaries "sons of the devil" and liars and murderers (John 8:44)

- Looked at His adversaries with anger (Mark 3:5)

- Became hostile at the merchants at the temple (John 2:15-16)

- Jesus and God did not want to forgive some people (John 12:40-41, Isaiah 6:10, Revelations 11:12)

- Jesus prevented many from hearing the Gospel or did not intend everyone to hear it (Matthew 7:6, Matthew 13:13, Proverbs 9:8)

- Jesus rather easily gave up on people who refuse to believe....Jesus didn't "hard-sell" the Gospel as many Christians do and also instructed His disciples to do the same. (Mark 6:11, Matthew 13:13 Ezekiel 3:27, Daniel 12:10)

- Did not called/run after or followed up on those who left Him (John 6:66-67)

- Condemned His adversaries (John 8:21)


What really is Jesus like??? I'm sorry but it didn't look like the same image we made Him to be in our religion. He wasn't the "let's sing kumbaya" type and rather heavily used discernment and seem not intent on saving everyone. Something seems to be wrong.
.
.
.

Rebuking religious misinterpretation is nothing to be nice about and we honestly need to do it more. I am of the firm belief that we have too many churches in some towns in christianity, because people keep breaking off and creating their own denominations to excuse their own sin. Jesus was correcting the literalalists who overlook the intent of God's law for whatever evil selfish intent they have conjured up to perpetuate their lie over the generations.

 

[timewerx]

I would recommend reading all passages which quote these or similar words, including Acts 28:27. Then work on understanding where the original quote came from (Isaiah 6:10). You will need to read all that leads in to this verse - all of Isaiah from the start - and a thorough understanding of the bible would also help. (So if you have not read the whole bible before, now is the time to start. Which brings up a good question: Have you read and studied the whole bible, or have you only read select portions? That right there could be part of your problem.) But for now, start with the reading of the verse above from Acts and the first 5 chapters of Isaiah, and then let me know if that gives you any insight.

It is also repeated in Matthew 13:10-15.

Jesus spoke in parables to fulfill Isaiah 6:10 prophecy so the Gospel is not revealed to those people.

It's the same thing I meant in my OP. Jesus did not want some people saved.

 

[DingDing]

It is also repeated in Matthew 13:10-15.

Jesus spoke in parables to fulfill Isaiah 6:10 prophecy so the Gospel is not revealed to those people.

It's the same thing I meant in my OP. Jesus did not want some people saved.

If you are here to argue and malign Jesus, God, and the gospel, go ahead. But if you are looking for understanding, go back and do the things I said to do in my previous post. You are not much of a seeker if you refuse to dig for truth.

 

[timewerx]

If you are here to argue and malign Jesus, God, and the gospel, go ahead. But if you are looking for understanding, go back and do the things I said to do in my previous post. You are not much of a seeker if you refuse to dig for truth.

I've used to be denominational for 20 years going to Pentecostal, Evangelical, and Baptist denominations.

I believe that Jesus would forgive or save everyone if we come to believe in Him.

The problem is the part "if we come to believe in Him". It turn out that Jesus doesn't want some people to hear the Gospel (that's why He sometimes spoke in Parables or avoided some people). If they can't hear the Gospel, they won't be able to come to believe in Him and He cannot save them.

It's all summed up in Matthew 13:10-15.

I'm not trying to malign Jesus. I am rather worried that we might be rather maligning Him by picturing Him in a (popular) image that doesn't agree with scriptures but perhaps, born out of our fleshly desires/corrupt human instincts.

 

[DingDing]

...

The problem is the part "if we come to believe in Him". It turn out that Jesus doesn't want some people to hear the Gospel (that's why He sometimes spoke in Parables or avoided some people). If they can't hear the Gospel, they won't be able to come to believe in Him and He cannot save them.

It's all summed up in Matthew 13:10-15.

I'm not trying to malign Jesus. I am rather worried that we might be rather maligning Him by picturing Him in a (popular) image that doesn't agree with scriptures but perhaps, born out of our fleshly desires/corrupt human instincts.

Hello timewerx,
You really do need to go back and do the things I suggested - you need to dig for truth. But for the moment, let's take a look at this passage from Matthew 13:10-15 which you say sums it all up.

And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

First notice that in this passage, as in the Acts passage I asked you to read, Jesus says that they have closed their eyes, they are hard of hearing. This was something they did. They chose to close their eyes and stop up their ears. A careful study of scripture will reveal this. God did not just pick out some random people and cut them off from the gospel. They cut themselves off. And then this answers the question of just who is the "them [who] it has not been given" and who are those who "does not have". These are those who have cut themselves off from the truth. So let me ask you, when the disciples came to ask Him for explanations (and by 'disciples' it was certainly more than just the 12) why did not these others come? Did Jesus prevent them from coming and seeking answers? You won't get that from the text. What is apparent to me, is that those who seek find, and those who do not seek do not find. And even what little understanding a non-seeker has will be taken from him. It is not that Jesus/God didn't want to heal them, it was that these people refused to see and hear, and so they were the reason that they were not healed. Don't put this on Jesus as if He didn't care.

 

[Ken Rank]

I too would rather err on the side of mercy. With what judgement you mete out, by that same judgement will you be judged. It is mercy I ask for. Everything else rests in God's judgement. I will ask mercy on them as well.

This is, as expected, the verse that finalized my position on this. I had come to realize that if I can't see the heart and perceive the thoughts that I can't judge as God judges (which is why we ARE supposed to judge but never unto condemnation). Since we will be judged as we judge... then slow judgement with a lot of mercy sounds good.