To those who don't believe in eternal security...

CodyFaith said:

Explain this verse. And not only explain it, but explain it honestly:

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If you can't, no worries, it's really not possible to explain it any other way than an eternal security perspective. Because that's the truth.

Just as Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness, and all who looked upon the serpent were healed, so too that anyone who looks upon the Son of Man and believes are saved. (John 3:14-15)

Come join the family of God. You're wanted. So much.

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Only those who endure will be saved.

A man reaps what he sows.

Your position is mistaken and potentially dangerous. We will be judged for our actions.

CodyFaith said:

Explain this verse. And not only explain it, but explain it honestly:

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If you can't, no worries, it's really not possible to explain it any other way than an eternal security perspective. Because that's the truth.

Just as Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness, and all who looked upon the serpent were healed, so too that anyone who looks upon the Son of Man and believes are saved. (John 3:14-15)

Come join the family of God. You're wanted. So much.

Click to expand...

1 John 4:1

South Bound said:

It would be a better list if any of the verses were actually about the Biblical doctrine of eternal security as he claimed

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He would have a hard to finding one of them - since they don't exist.

South Bound said:

Nice try but it actually says precisely the opposite:

5The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

It's funny to me that you guys are so sure in your argument against the Biblical doctrine of eternal security but you feel you have to lie about what the Bible says to defend your position

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Nice try - but the text does not say "once he has taken the right path he will never make any other choice and even if he does he will be saved in his wickedness no matter what"

As I think you also would agree.

There are many verses that OSAS does not survive -- MATT 18 is one "I FORGAVE you ALL of that debt - you should have forgiven your brother his debt... RETURN ALL THE DEBT to him and make him pay it in full..... SO Shall My father do to each one of you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart"

OSAS does not survive Romans 11 "HE is able to graft them in AGAIN if they do not continue in unbelief"

"You should fear for you stand only by your faith.. if He did not spare them neither will He spare you"

OSAS does not survive 1 Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others - I myself should be disqualified from it"

Calvinism does not survive Isaiah 5:4 "What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it? Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?"

BobRyan said:

OSAS does not survive Romans 11 "HE is able to graft them in AGAIN if they do not continue in unbelief"

"You should fear for you stand only by your faith.. if He did not spare them neither will He spare you"

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Romans 11 is about Jews, not about born again Christians and not about the Biblical doctrine of eternal security

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Romans 10
"8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

"He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11
"How I WANTED to spare your children -but YOU were not willing" Matt 23

Romans 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
...
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed,

OSAS does not survive Romans 11 "HE is able to graft them in AGAIN if they do not continue in unbelief"

"You should fear for you stand only by your faith.. if He did not spare them neither will He spare you"

South Bound said:

Romans 11 is about Jews, not about born again Christians and not about the Biblical doctrine of eternal security

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Romans 11 is written to "YOU who are a wild branch (Gentile) - grafted in " in THEIR (Jews) place.

So then it says to "YOU" the gentile -- "You should fear for you stand only by your faith.. if He did not spare them neither will He spare you" -- that "you" in this case -- is a gentile!!

Bible details matter.

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Romans 11
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

BobRyan said:

Calvinism does not survive Isaiah 5:4 "What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it? Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?"

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I love that quote

Calvinism makes God the cause of His own lament above.

The saboteur of his own Gospel efforts to save.

"He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11
"How I WANTED to spare your children -but YOU were not willing" Matt 23

Luke 7:30 "But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John."

CodyFaith said:

Explain this verse. And not only explain it, but explain it honestly:

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If you can't, no worries, it's really not possible to explain it any other way than an eternal security perspective. Because that's the truth.

Just as Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness, and all who looked upon the serpent were healed, so too that anyone who looks upon the Son of Man and believes are saved. (John 3:14-15)

Come join the family of God. You're wanted. So much.

Click to expand...

First, there are many seals mentioned in the Bible and most of them had been broken. So a seal does not suggest that it is unbreakable in any way.

Second, circumcision was a seal of one's righteousness of faith (Romans 4:11). But if one was a breaker of the law, one's circumcision can become uncircumcision (Romans 2:25).

Three, how do you get the seal of GOD or what are the conditions of having this seal?

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed" (John 6:27).

Well, according to John 6:27, the way you get the seal of the Father or GOD is if you labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

Meat is doing God's will (See John 4:34).

So if you are truly laboring for GOD, then you have the seal of the Holy Ghost.
For why would GOD abide in evil and rebellious people. GOD is holy and righteous and good. This means God's people must be good, too. If not, then GOD would have to agree with our evil in order to reward us by entering His Kingdom. This would be wrong. God does not reward the wicked.

God is good.
God will not condone evil.
This is basic Christianity 101.

I know this may sound harsh to you, but if you truly don't get it, I would say leave GOD out of your sinning (or your sin and still be saved gospel) and go back to your old life of sin if sinning is something you truly want to do (or to justify as being okay for your life).
Jesus said I would rather you be cold or hot and not luke warm.
For no man can serve two masters.
A person cannot serve God and also serve their sin.
For this is the result or conclusion that one must face if they believe in the "Eternal Security", or "Once Saved Always Saved", or the "No Sin Can Separate You" Type Beliefs (Whether they like it or not).


...

see, the problem isn't whether or not either side can make a case in scripture but which side can reconcile all the passages together to an accurate understanding of what God intends for us to know and understand. IOW's it isn't about twisting scripture to say what we want it to but rather it's about seeing how all the scripture should conform our thinking and beliefs to the will of God

South Bound said:

Romans 11 is about Jews, not about born again Christians and not about the Biblical doctrine of eternal security

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Oh really?

I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Romans 11:13‭, ‬17‭-‬21 NIV

I must be confused. What are "Gentiles"? Are they Jews?

@South Bound ,
Jesus' parable of the Unmerciful Servant is found in Matthew 18:21-35. Verse 35 is the most salient to this thread.

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So then when someone goes to Hell it's because God didn't work hard enough?

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Sounds like you have been reading Matt 7 and Romans 2 again.

"not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven - but he who DOES the will of My Father" Matt 7 and then follows the illustration of those who hear the words of Christ - but fail to do what they are told - the house built on sand.


Romans 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
...
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed,

OSAS: Removes free will to break relationship with God.
SAL: Adds works to salvation.

CORRECT VIEW: Onced saved always saved unless we divorce God by deliberate choice (i.e. break the seal)

This view merges all Bible verses into their correct place. We are not saved by post-salvation works. But we can divorce God. The Bible is sometimes difficult to understand because the path towards divorce-of-God is sin. And so many who believe SAL preach a works based gospel. But it is true, sin leads to eternal death, but the direct-cause of losing salvation is a deliberate decision.

CodyFaith said:

Explain this verse. And not only explain it, but explain it honestly:

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If you can't, no worries, it's really not possible to explain it any other way than an eternal security perspective. ...[/MEDIA]

Click to expand...

Sorry, but your are wrong. The "seal" is a mark, but seals can be broken.