Why are most christians against asylum seekers?

Landon Caeli · Jun 19, 2016

According to my religion, from what I've been taught, I'm free to form my own prudential judgements according to my conscience, especially on political issues. That's why I'm for fixing Syria, and not for taking Syrians in.

Winken · Jun 19, 2016

Cernunnos said:
Read the OP, skipping right down to "here" to chime in. I realize I am blazing past 8+ pages of . . . conversation.

It depends on the "flavor" of Christians you know. Me, I am an anarchist. . . I believe nations maintain borders to manipulate trade for the benefit of corporations that pay their government & borders serve no purpose for "citizens" .. . . merely having a different political party in charge can render a corporation's huge campaign contributions moot & thus the borders serve them no purpose beyond the possibility of capitalizing when they do have the upper hand. So borders do more harm than good & contribute to the war machines that governments use to leverage human rights. So. . . I am pretty open to people crossing whatever borders they need to to secure a better life. .. regardless of legal hurdles.

At the same time, I find it really annoying to have a subordinate that can't follow easy directions at work . . . in my country's language. I don't care what country or how legal someone is . . if I say "push this, this way, because the machine will jam if you don't" and demonstrate the action repeatedly & cue repeatedly and in a 12 hour shift, get someone who speaks the other language to explain it & the guy still won't just push the thing that keeps two of my assembly lines from jamming . . . . it isn't that I love my borders or hate asylum seekers. . . . I just want my job to be supported by subordinates that will follow simple directions. I want the guy to be fired and replaced, not because I don't like Latinos, but because my production numbers depend on subordinates doing the job related tasks I ask of them. One of my engineers doesn't speak much English, but we communicate very well through gesture. I wish I spoke Japanese, but as his subordinate, I do my best to understand his intents and anticipate his job needs. I know he is here legally & that has nothing to do with why I like working with him. He tries to communicate & I try . . . it is clear we are on the same team and trying to meet the same objectives. Bonuses are based on company profit. . . so. . . anyway. . . I am glad to have one foreign guy I work with and unhappy about the other, has nothing to do with their legal status & everything to do with "what they bring to the job"

I once lived in a town which was WASP. There were no liquor stores, no bars. Grocery stores did not sell beer and cigarettes. One could take the family for a walk before or after dark, without fear. One could stop to talk to neighbors along the way. Folks owned or were buying their own homes. The streets and yards were mowed and cleaned. Local police were our friends, very supportive, kind, helpful, generous, routinely on patrol.

Today, that is all gone. Today WASP is a meager minority. Booze and cigarettes are readily available. No one dare walk outside after sundown. Neighbors don't know neighbors. Homes are rented, often abandoned. The streets and yards are a trash dump. More than one language is heard. The police appear rather often ... in a hurry.

My present neighborhood, once beautiful, is slowly giving way to all of the negatives, above. Why should we be forced to move?

Let us pray.

Landon Caeli · Jun 19, 2016

Winken said:
I once lived in a town which was WASP. There were no liquor stores, no bars. Grocery stores did not sell beer and cigarettes. One could take the family for a walk before or after dark, without fear. One could stop to talk to neighbors along the way. Folks owned or were buying their own homes. The streets and yards were mowed and cleaned. Local police were our friends, very supportive, kind, helpful, generous, routinely on patrol.

Today, that is all gone. Today WASP is a meager minority. Booze and cigarettes are readily available. No one dare walk outside after sundown. Neighbors don't know neighbors. Homes are rented, often abandoned. The streets and yards are a trash dump. More than one language is heard. The police appear rather often ... in a hurry.

My present neighborhood, once beautiful, is slowly giving way to all of the negatives, above. Why should we be forced to move?

Let us pray.

With your experiences and with staying true to your own conscience, you should be allowed to form your own opinions.

martinlb · Jun 19, 2016

South Bound said:
In your opinion. I believe the Bible is very clear that nations may have borders, secure those borders, and enforce the law.

I agree, on both points. What I'm posting here is certainly my opinion. Judge it for yourself absolutely. There's still plenty I need to learn.

I also agree that nations may have borders and so forth. One of the points I was trying to make, though, is that what nations do isn't what we, as set apart followers of God, are to do.

This is another example of my opinion but it seems to me that the overwhelming message of God is that we're to show compassion and mercy. I can't think of any examples where we are told to decide, based on self interest or risk to ourselves, who to extend compassion and help to or when to do it.

Landon Caeli · Jun 19, 2016

martinlb said:
I agree, on both points. What I'm posting here is certainly my opinion. Judge it for yourself absolutely. There's still plenty I need to learn.

I also agree that nations may have borders and so forth. One of the points I was trying to make, though, is that what nations do isn't what we, as set apart followers of God, are to do.

This is another example of my opinion but it seems to me that the overwhelming message of God is that we're to show compassion and mercy. I can't think of any examples where we are told to decide, based on self interest or risk to ourselves, who to extend compassion and help to or when to do it.

True, but when we take into consideration our children, and our childrens childrens future, we want to assure that we make good prudential judgements for them before anyone else. It's a parental responsibility.

jimmyjimmy · Jun 19, 2016

Landon Caeli said:
True, but when we take into consideration our children, and our childrens childrens future, we want to assure that we make good prudential judgements for them before anyone else. It's a parental responsibility.

Good point. It's also the states responsibility to protect its citizens.

Much of the problem here is the conflating of the roles of the state and the individual.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jun 19, 2016

QUOTE Wilken, ...... I once lived in a town which was WASP. There were no liquor stores, no bars. Grocery stores did not sell beer and cigarettes. One could take the family for a walk before or after dark, without fear. One could stop to talk to neighbors along the way. Folks owned or were buying their own homes. The streets and yards were mowed and cleaned. Local police were our friends, very supportive, kind, helpful, generous, routinely on patrol.

Today, that is all gone. Today WASP is a meager minority. Booze and cigarettes are readily available. No one dare walk outside after sundown. Neighbors don't know neighbors. Homes are rented, often abandoned. The streets and yards are a trash dump. More than one language is heard. The police appear rather often ... in a hurry.

My present neighborhood, once beautiful, is slowly giving way to all of the negatives, above. Why should we be forced to move?

Let us pray.QUOTE

I lived there too, for short times after leaving home. In several different states across the country.

Why should we be forced to move?

It's a bigger surprise it wasn't sooner.

Jesus said why (and to expect to): "When they seek your life in one city, flee to the next"

"If you stand up for the Truth (wherever you are), they will kick you out" ....
and
more likewise.....

MrsBrit · Jun 20, 2016

"This is another example of my opinion but it seems to me that the overwhelming message of God is that we're to show compassion and mercy. I can't think of any examples where we are told to decide, based on self interest or risk to ourselves, who to extend compassion and help to or when to do it"

The countries these immigrants are coming from have shown little regard for Christians, in fact Christians have been persecuted in those parts of the world. We can show compassion and mercy by helping them rebuild their own countries, but as has become apparent they do not want to embrace our way of life, they do not want to assimilate but rather have shown violence towards those who do not share their religion it is dangerous and foolish to think that we can welcome them and they will be grateful and respect our Christianity. We have a duty to protect ourselves, our women and children from persecution. I don't believe God wants us to bow down to those who have made it clear they want to take over the world and that anyone not sharing their beliefs will meet a horrible fate.

MrsBrit · Jun 20, 2016

pat34lee said:
How have you lived the last 20 years without learning anything
about the world at large, or do you just ignore everything the
Muslims are doing?

Britain
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nghy-African-migrants-sank-Mediterranean.html

The US
https://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/milwaukee-a-somali-muslim-enclave-grows/

Australia
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/04/06/australian-sharia-and-dhimmitude/

Well said! The facts are there for everyone to see. We must take heed of what is happening to Christians in other parts of the world.

MrsBrit · Jun 20, 2016

rambot said:
No. Instead you turn a blind eye to people suffering because people who don't hold the same beliefs as other people who are trying to kill them (and also don't share your beliefs), can't be trusted.

All of your examples are earthly examples from which Jesus provided no direction AT ALL. Jesus never said that God will protect your material possessions. Jesus also never said if you put yourself in imminent danger, Jesus would swoop down and save you.
Jesus DID say, help the poor and down trodden.
Period.
End of sentence.
No caveats.
Jesus DID say to show love to everyone.
Jesus DId say that whatever you do to the least of these, you do to me.

I have to wonder if you all think that Syrian refugees do not fit the bill of what Jesus is referring to in the last paraphrase there.

MrsBrit · Jun 20, 2016

brinny said:
There you have it. ISIS. Islamic terrorism. Continuing to commit atrocities.

And it goes on. And on. And on. Non-stop.

THIS is the issue. It IS especially fiendish to use refugees as a smoke screen to enter other countries for diabolic reasons.

THIS is why wisdom, discretion, and clarity is a GOOD thing, and it is GODLY to utilize the wisdom God grants us.

Ever heard the story about the babies and the water?

ISIS said over a year ago that they would flood Europe with refugees and that's exactly what they've done. It is estimated that one in five of these refugees are ISIS, already two of the men connected with the mass shooting in France came in as refugees, in Switzerland two male refugees who had only been in the country for two days were arrested when explosive materials were found in their apartment. We cannot ignore these incidents, I've seen the video which showed some of the men proudly showing where they'd burnt the tips of their fingers so that fingerprints could not be taken, the majority of the immigrants are men and they are quite open about leaving their wives, children and parents back in their home countries. If they are so afraid how can they abandon their families in this manner?

MrsBrit · Jun 20, 2016

Daniel9v9 said:
Just out of curiosity - is this the general feeling in the US? When I was in the UK most people I know were quite eager to welcome refugees, though the government not so much. However, Justin Welby (Archbishop of Canterbury) took in some refugees.

Other European countries have taken in a lot of refugees. I know quite of few have converted to Christianity, which is good - though sadly there has been some controversy around it as some suspect not all converts are sincere, but convert in order to get visa more easily.

I'm very positive to the refugees. I think the claim that ISIS cells are hiding among them is, whilst possible, borderline selfish considering we're talking about many people's lives who are fleeing from terrorism and oppression. Many of which are Christians and hold the heritage of being the first church in the world. We ought to care for the poor and the needy and lay our lives down for them, in line with the commands of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm from the UK and I can tell you the people there are very, very concerned about the influx of immigrants (refugees) it's one of the main reasons that Brexit (the vote to leave the EU) is taking place next week. Entire cities have been taken over by Muslims with no go zones for non Muslims. London is nicknamed Londonistan and if you've been there it's like walking through a Muslim country. I think you have been mislead about the situation.
The Archbishop of Canterbury is a weak man and one of the reasons that Christianity is under threat in the UK. Christians are forbidden to wear a cross to work, halal meat has been served to schoolchildren without the parent's knowledge. The Archbishop supported Sharia courts for divorce and inheritance matters which goes against British law. All these things have happened because of the fear of our British way of life would cause offense. Political correctness will be our downfall!

Daniel9v9 · Jun 20, 2016

MrsBrit said:
I'm from the UK and I can tell you the people there are very, very concerned about the influx of immigrants (refugees) it's one of the main reasons that Brexit (the vote to leave the EU) is taking place next week. Entire cities have been taken over by Muslims with no go zones for non Muslims. London is nicknamed Londonistan and if you've been there it's like walking through a Muslim country. I think you have been mislead about the situation.
The Archbishop of Canterbury is a weak man and one of the reasons that Christianity is under threat in the UK. Christians are forbidden to wear a cross to work, halal meat has been served to schoolchildren without the parent's knowledge. The Archbishop supported Sharia courts for divorce and inheritance matters which goes against British law. All these things have happened because of the fear of our British way of life would cause offense. Political correctness will be our downfall!

Believe it or not, I actually lived in the UK for 10 years. 7 Years in London (3 years in East London with a pretty dense Muslim community). I only moved a year ago. I'm familiar enough with the current state of the UK, but I was mainly speaking about my Christian friends.

As for the increasing secularism, Christophobia or political correctness as you put it, well, there I agree with you. The UK is on the road to nowhere good.

Sultan Of Swing · Jun 20, 2016

martinlb said:
These are certainly answers but they don't seem to have anything that would set them apart as "Christian". My belief is that Christians are different, set apart. Part of that involves following the examples and teaching of the bible. That means we make our decisions based on theology, not philosophy. While it's damaging to interpret a 2000 plus old document as though it was written today, one of the consistent themes in the bible is compassion and care for sojurners. Much of what's done in the name of Christ and Christianity has nothing to do with either.

Quoting Bible verses about compassion for sojourners as a guide to taking in migrants doesn't necessarily make that the 'Christian' way forward either.

Why would you extend a verse that's about personal compassion to government policy?

Does the government now have to 'love thy neighbour' and think about other countries above its own people?

This isn't how governments work. There are no easy Biblical solutions to how governments should respond to things like the migrant crisis. I cannot base my answer on theology because the Bible was not primarily written to address issues of civil governance, that is not what the Bible is for. There are valid concerns many Christians have with taking in these migrants. They are hardly based on 'philosophy' I'm not sure what that even means.

As Christians we are to love our neighbours, yes? If we perceive that taking in thousands of migrants could be a threat to our country, who do we prefer, the millions of neighbours we have in our own country or the few thousand neighbours who are travelling from miles away and can endanger the rest? While a Christian may be willing to sacrifice his well-being and safety to take in the sojourner, many others in the country are not, and they are also our neighbours whom we should seek to protect.

dude99 · Jun 20, 2016

MrsBrit said:
I'm from the UK and I can tell you the people there are very, very concerned about the influx of immigrants (refugees) it's one of the main reasons that Brexit (the vote to leave the EU) is taking place next week. Entire cities have been taken over by Muslims with no go zones for non Muslims. London is nicknamed Londonistan and if you've been there it's like walking through a Muslim country. I think you have been mislead about the situation.
The Archbishop of Canterbury is a weak man and one of the reasons that Christianity is under threat in the UK. Christians are forbidden to wear a cross to work, halal meat has been served to schoolchildren without the parent's knowledge. The Archbishop supported Sharia courts for divorce and inheritance matters which goes against British law. All these things have happened because of the fear of our British way of life would cause offense. Political correctness will be our downfall!

No city has been overtaken by muslims in the UK

MrsBrit said:
I'm from the UK and I can tell you the people there are very, very concerned about the influx of immigrants (refugees) it's one of the main reasons that Brexit (the vote to leave the EU) is taking place next week. Entire cities have been taken over by Muslims with no go zones for non Muslims. London is nicknamed Londonistan and if you've been there it's like walking through a Muslim country. I think you have been mislead about the situation.
The Archbishop of Canterbury is a weak man and one of the reasons that Christianity is under threat in the UK. Christians are forbidden to wear a cross to work, halal meat has been served to schoolchildren without the parent's knowledge. The Archbishop supported Sharia courts for divorce and inheritance matters which goes against British law. All these things have happened because of the fear of our British way of life would cause offense. Political correctness will be our downfall!

I don't really see that Islam is the biggest threat in the UK. The UK will never be majority muslim and there is no city in the UK that has been overtaken by muslims.

The UK has a lot of problems and it not just the muslims. Latest example was the killing of an MP by an extremist right wing fanatic, due to the conflict of the Euro as the MP supported it. Its like what happened in Sweden 10 years ago an a politician was murdered for the very similar reasons.

Most immigrants thesedays are from the EU and are not muslim backgrounds. Yes Christianity is in decline and in the past few years the Church of England has lost 2 million followers. Muslims have got nothing to do with the decline of church members. Its because British society has changed and become increasingly secularised.

BryanMaloney · Jun 20, 2016

dude99 said:
Why it seems most Christians are against asylum seekers? For the political parties most Chrisitans support are the parties who are are openly stating to deport asylum seekers and even refuse to accomodate people that have fled their own countries due to war and persecution. Anyway Jesus Christ himself was a refugee.

It seems the people I personally know that are most passionate about the rights of asylum seekers are not Christian at all. Unlike some Chrisitans I come accross who believe that asylum seekers should be deported from the country.

Cite the HARD EVIDENCE that MOST Christians have such an opinion. Let's see the DATA! Go on, back up your claims with hard data.

Razare · Jun 20, 2016

I'm not, I want to welcome ISIS into the US. But before we would do it, step 1 of the plan would be to promote concealed carry permits among the population.

If something like 30% of the population had concealed carried pistols, I think it solves most all terrorism problems instantly. Sure, they can make bombs, but they can do that anyway... and you get the 1 bang and it's done or whatever.

Then when you bring in the Asylum Seekers from Syria, you just have the TSA search them.

And yes, they might try doing a few dumb things, but they wont be able to hold schools hostage if we permit concealed carried arms into schools. In the 1800's students in the USA could bring their firearms to school. In one instance, someone had come to kill a teacher, but the student body stopped the murder by getting their firearms out and preventing the person from doing their teacher harm.

Now, concealed carry society requires less idiocy. And that's achieved because the bozo who wants to flash their pistol at people randomly, can be shot and killed by the rules of self-defense. If they point a gun at you, and are not police, you can kill them. So after 5 years of this, the bozos are no longer around. That's the transition phase.

Just imagine, less school violence, because you don't bully people who pack, and even verbal harassment is limited. Would be great. And "what if someone tries a school shooting!?" ... deaths are minimized because the student body is already armed and trained in defending themselves with their weapons. Deaths could certainly happen, but they're just generally capped at an upper limit of a few people because society is armed and achieves counter-force.

And if we did this, I think ISIS coming to the US would be fine. We would just breed the terrorism out of them, and they couldn't do anything major.

Armoured · Jun 20, 2016

Razare said:
I'm not, I want to welcome ISIS into the US. But before we would do it, step 1 of the plan would be to promote concealed carry permits among the population.

If something like 30% of the population had concealed carried pistols, I think it solves most all terrorism problems instantly. Sure, they can make bombs, but they can do that anyway... and you get the 1 bang and it's done or whatever.

Then when you bring in the Asylum Seekers from Syria, you just have the TSA search them.

And yes, they might try doing a few dumb things, but they wont be able to hold schools hostage if we permit concealed carried arms into schools. In the 1800's students in the USA could bring their firearms to school. In one instance, someone had come to kill a teacher, but the student body stopped the murder by getting their firearms out and preventing the person from doing their teacher harm.

Now, concealed carry society requires less idiocy. And that's achieved because the bozo who wants to flash their pistol at people randomly, can be shot and killed by the rules of self-defense. If they point a gun at you, and are not police, you can kill them. So after 5 years of this, the bozos are no longer around. That's the transition phase.

Just imagine, less school violence, because you don't bully people who pack, and even verbal harassment is limited. Would be great. And "what if someone tries a school shooting!?" ... deaths are minimized because the student body is already armed and trained in defending themselves with their weapons. Deaths could certainly happen, but they're just generally capped at an upper limit of a few people because society is armed and achieves counter-force.

And if we did this, I think ISIS coming to the US would be fine. We would just breed the terrorism out of them, and they couldn't do anything major.

Wow.

Circle Christ · Jun 20, 2016

Luke17:37 said:
You posted this same thing before and he told you he read them. He just doesn't agree with you. It's condescending to assume he doesn't understand.

I would think it condescending to reply in a manner that denotes lack of understanding after claiming to have read the remarks replied to.

Circle Christ · Jun 20, 2016

Razare said:
I'm not, I want to welcome ISIS into the US. But before we would do it, step 1 of the plan would be to promote concealed carry permits among the population.

If something like 30% of the population had concealed carried pistols, I think it solves most all terrorism problems instantly. Sure, they can make bombs, but they can do that anyway... and you get the 1 bang and it's done or whatever.

Then when you bring in the Asylum Seekers from Syria, you just have the TSA search them.

And yes, they might try doing a few dumb things, but they wont be able to hold schools hostage if we permit concealed carried arms into schools. In the 1800's students in the USA could bring their firearms to school. In one instance, someone had come to kill a teacher, but the student body stopped the murder by getting their firearms out and preventing the person from doing their teacher harm.

Now, concealed carry society requires less idiocy. And that's achieved because the bozo who wants to flash their pistol at people randomly, can be shot and killed by the rules of self-defense. If they point a gun at you, and are not police, you can kill them. So after 5 years of this, the bozos are no longer around. That's the transition phase.

Just imagine, less school violence, because you don't bully people who pack, and even verbal harassment is limited. Would be great. And "what if someone tries a school shooting!?" ... deaths are minimized because the student body is already armed and trained in defending themselves with their weapons. Deaths could certainly happen, but they're just generally capped at an upper limit of a few people because society is armed and achieves counter-force.

And if we did this, I think ISIS coming to the US would be fine. We would just breed the terrorism out of them, and they couldn't do anything major.

Is satire really appropriate here when so much has happened?

Why are most christians against asylum seekers?

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