The harlot of Babylon Revealed

precepts · May 13, 2016

Douggg said:
You are not paying attention to the times of Revelation 12, Revelation 13, Revelation 17.

Revelation 13 is timed with 42 months left in the 7 years. The first beast as a kingdom is the end times Roman Empire, which with 42 months left will have gained control of the territories of the other three historic empires of Babylon, Persian-Medes, Greece.

The Romans did conquer the territories once held by Greece, yes.... and a lot of other territory to boot. But the Roman Empire disinigrated into factions fighting themselves - leaving a GAP. Hisorically, fighting among themselves for 1600 years, and in recent memory, like the Italians and Germany fighting France and England WWII - all of which were once the Roman Empire.

After world war II, they reunited by the treaty of Rome, to eventually become what is the EU, the end times Roman Empire.

There's no way you can't understand the facts I presented, the reason why you don't address them. We've been thru this before!

precepts · May 13, 2016

Douggg said:
Where is the fainting icon? I could use it for some of your comments, precepts.

In Revelation 17, the beast is the eighth king - not 8th horn. There are 7 kings in sequence that rule before him. Those are represented by the 7 heads, not the horns. The ten horns are ten leaders, yet to be appointed in the EU. Ten other guys, who none of them are the little horn, nor the beast person in Revelation. We are not at that final stage of government yet, but it is close, imo.

The 7 kings are:
Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Tiberius Caesar
Caligula Caesar
Claudius Caesar
Nero Caesar - the one ruling at the time of John

The little horn - number 7 Caesar, yet to come, to continue for a short space (the 42 months after he is killed and comes back to life -
as the beast, king 8 Caesar. )

I don't know why you keep trying to force your opinion on me, but I'm not wasting my time with you any longer. Bring forth fruits ripe for repentance.

There's no way you don't know the image in Dan 2 represents the beast kingdoms in Dan 7. Pretend as you may.

ebedmelech · May 13, 2016

God pretty much tells Moses how to understand what He means by "whoredom" as He speaks to Moses about what Israel would do before He calls Moses home in Deteronomy 31:14-18:
14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, the time for you to die is near; call Joshua, and present yourselves at the tent of meeting, that I may commission him.” So Moses and Joshua went and presented themselves at the tent of meeting.
15 The Lord appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud, and the pillar of cloud stood at the doorway of the tent.
16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’
18 But I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they will do, for they will turn to other gods.

Once again...when you let scripture interpret itself, you will be on safer ground. As I said before...follow this up with these passages to understand who the Harlot is in Revelation:

Isaiah 1:21-23

*Jeremiah 2, 3

*Ezekiel 16

*Hosea

*Amos 7:14-17

The harlotry is spiritual...and it's the failure of Israel/Judah to be faithful to God, whom they covenanted with on Mt Sinai at Exodus 24:3-8.

As you read Revelation it is filled with prophecy that comes from the OT prophets...and the adultery is that of Israel who was Gods covenant people. Revelation 17:4 is speaking of the things of the Old Covenant tabernacle/Temple of Israel, which was the symbol of Gods presence among them:
4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,

This is not hard!!! Israel was the harlot, and God judged her by destroying her temple and wiping them off the land in 70AD...using Rome as His instrument of judgement!

Douggg · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
I don't know why you keep trying to force your opinion on me, but I'm not wasting my time with you any longer. Bring forth fruits ripe for repentance.

There's no way you don't know the image in Dan 2 represents the beast kingdoms in Dan 7. Pretend as you may.

I wrote that the kingdoms in Daniel 2 are the same kingdoms in Daniel 7. But I am not calling the Daniel 2 kingdoms - beast kingdoms - as though that is what is written the text. You are just a bad communicator, that's all.

Douggg · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
You pick and choose what you want to respond to and ignore the rest. What does Dan 2:38 say?

Daniel 2:38
And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

Gold is a metal, not a beast.

Douggg · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
I don't know why they would allow you to get away with this type of behavior on a Christian site. Revelation doesn't mention 2 beast?

Not as kingdoms.

Douggg · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
God speaks in parables.

I think you need to look up the definition of parable. And then of metaphor.

A parable is a simple story to illustrate a point. There are dreams and visions in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 with metapor all through those dreams and visions - but no parables.

precepts · May 13, 2016

Douggg said:
I wrote that the kingdoms in Daniel 2 are the same kingdoms in Daniel 7. But I am not calling the Daniel 2 kingdoms - beast kingdoms - as though that is what is written the text. You are just a bad communicator, that's all.

The kingdoms in Dan 2 are the same kingdoms in Dan 7- your words - but the kingdoms in Dan 2 are not beast kingdoms even though they're the same kingdoms called beast kingdoms in Dan 7? Is that right?

precepts · May 13, 2016

Douggg said:
Not as kingdoms.

You said Revelation only has one beast a couple posts back.

precepts · May 13, 2016

Douggg said:
I think you need to look up the definition of parable. And then of metaphor.

A parable is a simple story to illustrate a point. There are dreams and visions in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 with metapor all through those dreams and visions - but no parables.

Parables is another word that has taken on a new meaning in the NT. All references to parables in the OT is what parables are, a wise way to disguise a message, a riddle. Check it out. I don't just say things. I know what I know because I have studied these things.

precepts · May 13, 2016

ebedmelech said:
God pretty much tells Moses how to understand what He means by "whoredom" as He speaks to Moses about what Israel would do before He calls Moses home in Deteronomy 31:14-18:
14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, the time for you to die is near; call Joshua, and present yourselves at the tent of meeting, that I may commission him.” So Moses and Joshua went and presented themselves at the tent of meeting.
15 The Lord appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud, and the pillar of cloud stood at the doorway of the tent.
16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’
18 But I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they will do, for they will turn to other gods.

Once again...when you let scripture interpret itself, you will be on safer ground. As I said before...follow this up with these passages to understand who the Harlot is in Revelation:

Isaiah 1:21-23

*Jeremiah 2, 3

*Ezekiel 16

*Hosea

*Amos 7:14-17

The harlotry is spiritual...and it's the failure of Israel/Judah to be faithful to God, whom they covenanted with on Mt Sinai at Exodus 24:3-8.

As you read Revelation it is filled with prophecy that comes from the OT prophets...and the adultery is that of Israel who was Gods covenant people. Revelation 17:4 is speaking of the things of the Old Covenant tabernacle/Temple of Israel, which was the symbol of Gods presence among them:
4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,

This is not hard!!! Israel was the harlot, and God judged her by destroying her temple and wiping them off the land in 70AD...using Rome as His instrument of judgement!

I don't know what your problem is. Shalem is not the "great city" that ruled over the earth. It has never been and will never be. Rome have and is as the harlot spiritually. If you accept some scriptures and ignore others, you will always be preaching false doctrines. Shalem is not the "great city" and she will never have 10 kings of which the Beast will be the 8th. That is folly!

Douggg · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
The kingdoms in Dan 2 are the same kingdoms in Dan 7- your words - but the kingdoms in Dan 2 are not beast kingdoms even though they're the same kingdoms called beast kingdoms in Dan 7? Is that right?

You are not calling the Daniel 7 kingdoms - the Daniel 7 metal kingdoms are you? Why not if they are the same kingdoms in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 - using your sort of logic ?

Why don't you just go by number, instead, such as fourth kingdom?

Douggg · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
You said Revelation only has one beast a couple posts back.

Copy and paste what I wrote, so I know what you are referring to.

Douggg · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
Parables is another word that has taken on a new meaning in the NT. All references to parables in the OT is what parables are, a wise way to disguise a message, a riddle. Check it out. I don't just say things. I know what I know because I have studied these things.

Check it out? How about you giving some source and link for your claims?

ebedmelech · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
I don't know what your problem is. Shalem is not the "great city" that ruled over the earth. It has never been and will never be. Rome have and is as the harlot spiritually. If you accept some scriptures and ignore others, you will always be preaching false doctrines. Shalem is not the "great city" and she will never have 10 kings of which the Beast will be the 8th. That is folly!

Precepts...this is a thread for all, you and I know we disagree. Now...if you don't agree that Yerushalayim is the harlot city that's ok with me...and I don't have a problem. Simply post that which you think is correct.

Jesus made it pretty plain it was Jerusalem as well as the prophets, that you can't see it is your stumbling block.

*Isaiah 1:21-31 is pretty clear it's Jerusalem prior to Babylon taking the city the first time.

*Jeremiah 2 makes it pretty clear its Jerusalem the same way.

*Jesus said in Matthew 23:37-39:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

God is not calling Rome a harlot because God was NEVER in covenant with Rome! He was in covenant with Israel and dwelt among them in the temple at Jerusalem!!!

The time had come for God to carry out that which He said in Leviticus 26:14-46 in Revelation 17...and He did it using Rome, just as He did it using Assyria against Israel and Babylon against Judah before.

ewq1938 · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
THE PROOF
This verse proves "fornication" is not "adultery"! The penalty for adultery was death by stoning, not divorce! Remember the NT case of the woman caught in adultery.

No, that isn't proving any such thing. Fornication can be many things including Adultery. What the verse actually says is if a man divorces his wife for the wrong reason, he commits Adultery just by re-marrying.

In no way does this say adultery and fornication are different.

fornication

G4202
πορνεία
inappropriate contenteia
por-ni'-ah
From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.

dfw69 · May 13, 2016

ebedmelech said:
Precepts...this is a thread for all, you and I know we disagree. Now...if you don't agree that Yerushalayim is the harlot city that's ok with me...and I don't have a problem. Simply post that which you think is correct.

Jesus made it pretty plain it was Jerusalem as well as the prophets, that you can't see it is your stumbling block.

*Isaiah 1:21-31 is pretty clear it's Jerusalem prior to Babylon taking the city the first time.

*Jeremiah 2 makes it pretty clear its Jerusalem the same way.

*Jesus said in Matthew 23:37-39:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

God is not calling Rome a harlot because God was NEVER in covenant with Rome! He was in covenant with Israel and dwelt among them in the temple at Jerusalem!!!

The time had come for God to carry out that which He said in Leviticus 26:14-46 in Revelation 17...and He did it using Rome, just as He did it using Assyria against Israel and Babylon against Judah before.

I know you believe revelation is fulfilled but put that aside for a moment

Suppose revelation is not fulfilled then who would mystery Babylon be? Who would you suspect? For all are in covenant with God now through the gospel ...so committing whoredom would be who?

ebedmelech · May 13, 2016

dfw69 said:
I know you believe revelation is fulfilled but put that aside for a moment

No. I don't believe Revelation is fulfilled...it is only partially fulfilled. In my view as I read scripture we are in the thousand year reign, the thousand years being symbolic of Christ entire reign. That is why I'm am amill.

dfw69 said:
Suppose revelation is not fulfilled then who would mystery Babylon be? Who would you suspect? For all are in covenant with God now through the gospel ...so committing whoredom would be who?

It would be all who turn from from Christ to another! However, to even try to deny mystery Babylon as Jerusalem is to deny the OT prophets. It was Jeremiah that told Judah in Jeremiah 3:1-3, as he addresses Israel and Judah :
God says, “If a husband divorces his wife And she goes from him And belongs to another man, Will he still return to her? Will not that land be completely polluted? But you are a harlot with many lovers; Yet you turn to Me,” declares the Lord.
2 “Lift up your eyes to the bare heights and see; Where have you not been violated? By the roads you have sat for them Like an Arab in the desert, And you have polluted a land With your harlotry and with your wickedness.
3 “Therefore the showers have been withheld, And there has been no spring rain. Yet you had a harlot’s forehead; You refused to be ashamed.

Jipsah · May 13, 2016

precepts said:
Rome is the 4th beast kingdom in Dan 7 and the 5th beast kingdom in Dan 2.Rome is also the two beast kingdoms in Revelation, because the 4th beast kingdom in Dan 7 is the 1st beast kingdom in Revelation.

Says so right there in your doctrine, huh? I happen to think that's baloney, though.

So, spare me the petty details.

<ROFL>

Jipsah · May 14, 2016

precepts said:
My response was to your petty denial of what is fact: the seven hills is the city of Rome.

Sez who?

I provided the proof

You provided your notions, which are far from constituting proof of anything other than your personal beliefs.

The harlot of Babylon Revealed

Newbie

Newbie

My dog Micah in the pic

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

My dog Micah in the pic

I love you three.

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age

My dog Micah in the pic

Blood Drinker

Blood Drinker

Similar threads