Explosions in Brussels

ananda

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Armoured

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Attacking the Pentagon was a military action. Duh.
No, duh, it was a criminal action against a military target (assuming the Pentagon is even classed as military, I'm not sure, but isn't it where the US department of defence is centred, i.e. the civilian administrative coordinattion OF the military?)

If someone broke in to the Pentagon and stole a photocopier or whatever, would he be prosecuted as a criminal or as an enemy combatant? Same deal.
 
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Armoured

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Totally. There is a massive lack of proportion in the reporting (UK channels too) which does no-one any good except terrorists.

Perversely, if it was 100 dead around the West* each and every day, it would not be that long before it *wasn't* major news.
News needs to be new, with current mentalities. Much more telling issues that happen to be ongoing find themselves lackng in coverage: attention slips, and is directed to, the spectacular and the novel.

Another factor is the broaching, for many, of illusory perceptions of safety.
This can be traumatic even though little actual change of personal risk has taken place.
And the new perceptions of risk and danger can be even more out of scale to life's actual dangers than the previous ones about safety were.
(the "drunk on a horse" syndrome.)

If we can't get people to see this calmly and sensibly, we'll just have to simulate the effect with distraction by increasing the volume on even more mindless celebrity, fashion, sport and entertainment.

Chris
Let's say, for the sake of argument, Islamic terrorists killed a hundred westerners last week. That's terrible and tragic. But to put it in context by which to determine an appropriate response, how many Westerners were killed in domestic violence incidents last week? How many were killed in drunk driving accidents last week? Why is terrorism given so much more coverage and hysterical doom saying?
 
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Chris B

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In the spirit of activism, do you think there is anything we the masses can do to discourage news media from revelling in the bloodshed, thereby furthering the goals of the terrorists?

I'm not sure the masses are steerable, except in the crudest of ways which don't fit terribly well here.
One can't deliver a message of "don't react, just carry on, we've got people on it..." with the style of ranting end-of-world excitement (popular these, days, unfortunately)

My grandfather (served on the western front in WW1, lied about his age to volunteer early) taught me trench humour
It serves me as a better response than fear, alarm or despair, though it's not for everyone, or it can be an acquired taste.
"You've heard the saying "a coward dies a thousand deaths, a brave man only one? Well after two hundred and forty seven deaths I got fed up with the first approach.""

So, down to individual awareness, really, behaviour by example and a quiet word.
Were I mobile I'd institute a deliberate personal policy of holidays in (nice) places that have been attacked. They'll need the tourists.
Paris, certainly. Not sure about Brussels, though. That's not down to terrorism, that's down to Brussels.
 
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Armoured

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In the spirit of activism, do you think there is anything we the masses can do to discourage news media from revelling in the bloodshed, thereby furthering the goals of the terrorists?
Stop responding to the news media's "if it bleeds, it leads" paradigm. They have no agenda, they just produce what sells. It's US who are buying.
 
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DogmaHunter

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11 persons got banned today from entering the nuclear plant. :)

Thats right. 11 people with islamist connection worked in a nuclear powerplant in Belgium and are seen as a big enough risk that they get their permission removed to enter their work place. :)

I guess they aren´t buddhists... ;)

1. why the smilies?
2. isn't that a good thing?
3. are you about ready to admit to being wrong?
 
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mindlight

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And you know this how? In fact, it is the PKK's real interest in Syria that has to do with their vision for Kurdish expansion (under their rule; they have threatened to kill Kurds who criticize them). I provided you a link by Amnesty before showing that they have been destroying entire villages for no justifiable reason (displacing the Sunni Arab inhabitants). This coupled with the fact that they're changing the names of villages they capture (ethnically Arab) into Kurdish names show what their intent is. Just in case you didn't read about their war crimes:

Erdogans neo-Ottomanism has been commented on for some time. But 2 road blocks to his vision are the Kurds who want to separate and Assad. He wants both gone but now has the Russians and Iranians firmly opposed to him.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/06/erdogan-turkey-russia-syria-foreign-policy

Not sure what your sources are regarding the Kurdish villages but the houses razed to the ground belonged to members of ISIS and came from Arab, Turkman and even Kurdish backgrounds.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Amnesty-International-accusing-Kurdish-YPG-of-ethnic-cleansing


Again, why? Maybe it's because you only pay attention to the news coming out of mainstream media, but if you were to pay attention to what goes on in the ground, you'd see numerous videos of those Shi'a militias behaving the exact same way or worse as ISIS. The only difference is that they're supported by the West (because they're fighting ISIS) and Assad/allies (because they're fighting Syrian Sunnis) despite their behavior against civilians.

Hezbollah are not as bad as ISIS when it comes to Christians. But overall they are the enemy of our enemy rather than our friend.

So it shouldn't be so hard to provide evidence of the genocide against Christians in Syria at the hands of Syrian rebels. Of the 56 massacres I mentioned earlier, 1 of those massacres that displayed sectarian tendencies killed a total of 44 people (including 10 Christians). That doesn't sound like a genocide, especially since it wasn't repeated. I wouldn't put genocide past ISIS, but again, that means that the rebels are the best option against them since Assad and ISIS often ignore one another and even benefit from each other.

And yet the state department disagrees with you and a great many others

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...isis-obama-administration-should-recognize-it

What about the PKK Syrian branch committing ethnic cleansing? Is that an example of their maturity as a people and their readiness for nationhood?

They are in a war for their existence against Turks and ISIS and Amnesty never accused them of genocide

So it's unacceptable to work with ISIS because they're deluded murderers but it is acceptable to stand with regime/allies even though they have killed far more civilians than ISIS could even dream of killing.

Basically the point of your post seems to be that the threat of a possible genocide against Christians without much evidence is absolutely unacceptable and we cannot back those who you think would commit genocide against them (without proof) BUT an actual genocide against the Sunnis with a lot of evidence is sad, but hey, it happens and we have to embrace the worst option, the one committing genocide, in this conflict because of some warped logic?

It is not about the body count , it is about the cause. Christians belong to God everyone else is dancing in the shadows. This is an armed insurrection against an incumbent authority you are supporting where the revolutionaries are worse than the people they aim to displace killing Shias and Yazidis also with no regard for their humanity also. Yes Assad has killed more and that is tragic but as I said before it is also a reason in the circumstances to back him. You are more likely to die opposing him than supporting him.
 
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Armoured

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It is not about the body count , it is about the cause.
I hope you remember that next time someone invokes 5000 dead people from 9/11 being more important than other, non-Muslim initiated attacks with lower body counts.
 
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mindlight

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I hope you remember that next time someone invokes 5000 dead people from 9/11 being more important than other, non-Muslim initiated attacks with lower body counts.

There is no justice in supporting ISIS over Assad regardless of the body count. He is the incumbent authority of a sovereign nation and is "more" protective of minorities including Christians than the alternatives. ISIS have nothing better to offer and they are the only viable alternative to Assad in Syria.

At 911 innocents were massacred by Muslims. Of course that is comparable to the outrages committed by the IRA, Stalin, Sadam Hussein and Mao which often had higher as well as lower body counts.

So not sure I get your point. Injustice is injustice is mine. But Islam is the source of many if not most injustices in this generation. Violent outrages, the oppression of women, execution of Christians for practising Christianity.... the list is endless.
 
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nightflight

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1. why the smilies?
2. isn't that a good thing?
3. are you about ready to admit to being wrong?

Its not a tv sitcom, where everything is wrapped up neatly; this will keep happening as long as the status quo continues.
 
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BBC? Propaganda! Sorry, but I refuse to believe this happened. We must listen instead to the tourism department of Brussels, who tells us "Don't listen to CNN or BBC or anything else":


You have to be joking, right? That was in January! That video has got nothing to do with last week's attacks!
 
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DogmaHunter

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But Islam is the source of many if not most injustices in this generation

You mean islamists.
Islam itself is just a religion. The quran is just a book.

More then a billion muslims just go about their business every day.

Violent outrages, the oppression of women, execution of Christians for practising Christianity.... the list is endless.

Why do you single out christians here?
These Islamists, especially those of ISIS, are by no means targetting christians in such a way that it warrants singling them out. They are rather targetting EVERYONE that doesn't belong to their little club. The vast majority of their victims are actually muslims.
 
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PapaZoom

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You mean islamists.
Islam itself is just a religion. The quran is just a book.

More then a billion muslims just go about their business every day.



Why do you single out christians here?
These Islamists, especially those of ISIS, are by no means targetting christians in such a way that it warrants singling them out. They are rather targetting EVERYONE that doesn't belong to their little club. The vast majority of their victims are actually muslims.

I don't see the mere mentioning of Christians as victims of Islamists as singling them out but you are right that "They are rather targetting EVERYONE that doesn't belong to their little club." This actually surprised me (like blowing up a Mosque). It does seem that, at least in the US media and particularly the White House, has failed to notice (or mention) the huge numbers of Christians being killed systematically by Islamists. That said, anyone, regardless of belief, being killed by Islamist terrorists should concern us all.
 
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DogmaHunter

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I don't see the mere mentioning of Christians as victims of Islamists as singling them out but you are right that "They are rather targetting EVERYONE that doesn't belong to their little club." This actually surprised me (like blowing up a Mosque). It does seem that, at least in the US media and particularly the White House, has failed to notice (or mention) the huge numbers of Christians being killed systematically by Islamists. That said, anyone, regardless of belief, being killed by Islamist terrorists should concern us all.

The amount of Christians being killed by IS and alike pales in comparision to the amount of muslims that they have massacred.

The thing is... IS the enemy of EVERYONE that isn't part of IS. Muslims, Christians, Budhists, Hindu's, Atheists,.... EVERYONE.
 
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nightflight

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PapaZoom

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The amount of Christians being killed by IS and alike pales in comparision to the amount of muslims that they have massacred.

The thing is... IS the enemy of EVERYONE that isn't part of IS. Muslims, Christians, Budhists, Hindu's, Atheists,.... EVERYONE.

I don't think it should matter that more "others" are being killed compared to Christians being killed. And I think my post already addressed the fact that you point out in your sentence and we agree.
 
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Erdogans neo-Ottomanism has been commented on for some time.

That's not evidence of his "Ottoman vision for Turkish expansion". I had much more evidence of Kurdish expansion as PKK's vision when I told you that they are razing villages, displacing its Arab inhabitants, and changing the names of ethnically Arab villages that they conquer into Kurdish ones. Furthermore, they tried to declare their own Kurdish region of the places they have taken control of (including these previously Arab areas).

Not sure what your sources are regarding the Kurdish villages but the houses razed to the ground belonged to members of ISIS and came from Arab, Turkman and even Kurdish backgrounds.

I even said in that post that it was Amnesty International (and I've provided the same link once before that). A user on quora defending the YPG (with false information) and blaming the victims does not negate the fact that PKK/affiliates are committing ethnic cleansing. The Amnesty report mentions that there was no justifiable reason for the razing of entire villages and forced displacement to occur (and the quora user even gives another amnesty report which actually contradicts him because it talks about the total demolition of villages as well as forced displacement). Just claiming ISIS was present isn't enough. They can say aliens were inhabiting the entire village and it seems like people would believe them.

Hezbollah are not as bad as ISIS when it comes to Christians. But overall they are the enemy of our enemy rather than our friend.

The Shi'a militias fighting against ISIS have done things just as bad, if not worse, as ISIS. They behead. They burn civilians alive.

And yet the state department disagrees with you and a great many others

Appeal to authority without any evidence cited by that authority. If genocide against Christians was taking place in Syria, it would be easy to demonstrate how.

On the other hand, I have provided you evidence of how Assad's regime and its allies are committing genocide of the Sunnis. Only the blind or those who do not want to be legally obliged to do anything about it in Syria will deny it. I have also provided evidence of the YPG/affiliates razing entire villages and forcing inhabitants to leave. But you seem to try to ignore these things and play them down despite how well-documented it is.

They are in a war for their existence against Turks and ISIS and Amnesty never accused them of genocide

And how does committing ethnic cleansing against the Arab inhabitants (and even Kurdish ones, including those who disagree with their terrorism) help them in their war for existence? How does their "war for existence" justify their ethnic cleansing?

As for Amnesty, it has accused the YPG/affiliates of war crimes (by razing entire villages and forcibly displacing inhabitants). It also says, "..the majority of residents affected by these unlawful practices are Arabs and Turkmen.."

It is not about the body count, it is about the cause.

1.) Please do not dismiss and trivialize the body count. It is an insult to the ~200k civilians dead at the hands of the regime/allies to say "it's not about the body count."

2.) What cause? The cause of a brutal dictator who is only in power by force (and through hilarious sham elections) because his father had a coup and quashed an uprising against him? The cause of wanting to kill the Sunnis of the country? Yeah, not a good cause either.

This is an armed insurrection against an incumbent authority you are supportingwhere the revolutionaries are worse than the people they aim to displace killing Shias and Yazidis also with no regard for their humanity also.

1.) Which non-combatant Shias and Yazidis are they killing in Syria?

2.) Assad is killing Sunnis with no regard for their humanity.

3.) The majority (~70-80%) of the government's documented victims have been civilians whereas the rebels mainly target the regime/allies (who comprise most of those dead at the hands of the rebels).

Yes Assad has killed more and that is tragic but as I said before it is also a reason in the circumstances to back him. You are more likely to die opposing him than supporting him.

That's ridiculous. Would you have advised Jews or Christians against Hitler to support him because you are more likely to die opposing him? Why don't you advise the Christians in Iraq to support ISIS because they are more likely to die opposing it? Or tell the Sunnis (the most capable at stopping ISIS) to stop fighting ISIS because they are more likely to die opposing ISIS than supporting it?

I think the Syrians have shown that they would rather die free after all these years of being slaughtered yet still insisting on his removal.
 
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wn123455

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That's not evidence of his "Ottoman vision for Turkish expansion". I had much more evidence of Kurdish expansion as PKK's vision when I told you that they are razing villages, displacing its Arab inhabitants, and changing the names of ethnically Arab villages that they conquer into Kurdish ones. Furthermore, they tried to declare their own Kurdish region of the places they have taken control of (including these previously Arab areas).



I even said in that post that it was Amnesty International (and I've provided the same link once before that). A user on quora defending the YPG (with false information) and blaming the victims does not negate the fact that PKK/affiliates are committing ethnic cleansing. The Amnesty report mentions that there was no justifiable reason for the razing of entire villages and forced displacement to occur (and the quora user even gives another amnesty report which actually contradicts him because it talks about the total demolition of villages as well as forced displacement). Just claiming ISIS was present isn't enough. They can say aliens were inhabiting the entire village and it seems like people would believe them.



The Shi'a militias fighting against ISIS have done things just as bad, if not worse, as ISIS. They behead. They burn civilians alive.



Appeal to authority without any evidence cited by that authority. If genocide against Christians was taking place in Syria, it would be easy to demonstrate how.

On the other hand, I have provided you evidence of how Assad's regime and its allies are committing genocide of the Sunnis. Only the blind or those who do not want to be legally obliged to do anything about it in Syria will deny it. I have also provided evidence of the YPG/affiliates razing entire villages and forcing inhabitants to leave. But you seem to try to ignore these things and play them down despite how well-documented it is.



And how does committing ethnic cleansing against the Arab inhabitants (and even Kurdish ones, including those who disagree with their terrorism) help them in their war for existence? How does their "war for existence" justify their ethnic cleansing?

As for Amnesty, it has accused the YPG/affiliates of war crimes (by razing entire villages and forcibly displacing inhabitants). It also says, "..the majority of residents affected by these unlawful practices are Arabs and Turkmen.."



1.) Please do not dismiss and trivialize the body count. It is an insult to the ~200k civilians dead at the hands of the regime/allies to say "it's not about the body count."

2.) What cause? The cause of a brutal dictator who is only in power by force (and through hilarious sham elections) because his father had a coup and quashed an uprising against him? The cause of wanting to kill the Sunnis of the country? Yeah, not a good cause either.



1.) Which non-combatant Shias and Yazidis are they killing in Syria?

2.) Assad is killing Sunnis with no regard for their humanity.

3.) The majority (~70-80%) of the government's documented victims have been civilians whereas the rebels mainly target the regime/allies (who comprise most of those dead at the hands of the rebels).



That's ridiculous. Would you have advised Jews or Christians against Hitler to support him because you are more likely to die opposing him? Why don't you advise the Christians in Iraq to support ISIS because they are more likely to die opposing it? Or tell the Sunnis (the most capable at stopping ISIS) to stop fighting ISIS because they are more likely to die opposing ISIS than supporting it?

I think the Syrians have shown that they would rather die free after all these years of being slaughtered yet still insisting on his removal.

A lot of Islamist rebels fight using civilian clothes so Islamist rebel deaths could have been accidentally counted as civilian deaths.
 
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mindlight

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That's not evidence of his "Ottoman vision for Turkish expansion".

You seem to be living in denial about Erdogans delusions of grandeur. Even Al Jazeera has commentated on this and upon its harmful effects:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...-neo-ottoman-travesty-201451974314589207.html

I had much more evidence of Kurdish expansion as PKK's vision when I told you that they are razing villages, displacing its Arab inhabitants, and changing the names of ethnically Arab villages that they conquer into Kurdish ones. Furthermore, they tried to declare their own Kurdish region of the places they have taken control of (including these previously Arab areas).

I even said in that post that it was Amnesty International (and I've provided the same link once before that). A user on quora defending the YPG (with false information) and blaming the victims does not negate the fact that PKK/affiliates are committing ethnic cleansing. The Amnesty report mentions that there was no justifiable reason for the razing of entire villages and forced displacement to occur (and the quora user even gives another amnesty report which actually contradicts him because it talks about the total demolition of villages as well as forced displacement). Just claiming ISIS was present isn't enough. They can say aliens were inhabiting the entire village and it seems like people would believe them.

The rebuttal by quora included a lot of evidence that you seem to have ignored - for example interviews with people Amnesty cited as victims that were clear members of ISIS or Turkman organisations antagonistic to the Kurds. Regarding the one village where the majority of houses were razed to the ground leaving only 14 standing the Amnesty report made no mention of Syrian air strikes or combat between opposing armies which would have produced the same effect. Noone died in these incidents and they are not remotely comparable to the mass executions of ISIS which are clearly documented. Indeed as ISIS is steadily being defeated and their territory is receding we can now uncover such mass graves.

Take for example this mass grave in which the bodies of beheaded men and women have been discovered. It amazes me that any Muslim let alone sane person could support these people when the evidence against them demonstrates that they are murderers and massacre the innocent with the guilty.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-found-after-isis-driven-out-of-a6964856.html

The Shi'a militias fighting against ISIS have done things just as bad, if not worse, as ISIS. They behead. They burn civilians alive.

Evidence for that seems rather scant and seems to defy the basic discussion within Hezbollah itself as to whether they should be involved in this fight. Any way I am not endorsing Hezbollah so it is a rather mute point.

Appeal to authority without any evidence cited by that authority. If genocide against Christians was taking place in Syria, it would be easy to demonstrate how.

You are living in denial on this one:

http://stopthechristiangenocide.org/scg/en/resources/Genocide-report.pdf

On the other hand, I have provided you evidence of how Assad's regime and its allies are committing genocide of the Sunnis. Only the blind or those who do not want to be legally obliged to do anything about it in Syria will deny it. I have also provided evidence of the YPG/affiliates razing entire villages and forcing inhabitants to leave. But you seem to try to ignore these things and play them down despite how well-documented it is.

And how does committing ethnic cleansing against the Arab inhabitants (and even Kurdish ones, including those who disagree with their terrorism) help them in their war for existence? How does their "war for existence" justify their ethnic cleansing?

Assad has also committed atrocities. But he is the incumbent authority and there is little evidence to suggest that had ISIS the resources he has to bring to play that they would not have killed even more. This is a revolution. People on the revolutionary side are always more likely to die

As for Amnesty, it has accused the YPG/affiliates of war crimes (by razing entire villages and forcibly displacing inhabitants). It also says, "..the majority of residents affected by these unlawful practices are Arabs and Turkmen.."

1.) Please do not dismiss and trivialize the body count. It is an insult to the ~200k civilians dead at the hands of the regime/allies to say "it's not about the body count."

2.) What cause? The cause of a brutal dictator who is only in power by force (and through hilarious sham elections) because his father had a coup and quashed an uprising against him? The cause of wanting to kill the Sunnis of the country? Yeah, not a good cause either.

Noone died - this is not genocide or even ethnic cleansing and also the report has many flaws as quora demonstrated and you ignored.

1.) Which non-combatant Shias and Yazidis are they killing in Syria?

There is so much evidence for this I am surprised you can even ask the question with a straight face

http://www.christiantoday.com/artic...sing.to.fast.during.ramadan.sorcery/57807.htm

2.) Assad is killing Sunnis with no regard for their humanity.

So stop fighting against the Syrian government and maybe he will stop killing you

3.) The majority (~70-80%) of the government's documented victims have been civilians whereas the rebels mainly target the regime/allies (who comprise most of those dead at the hands of the rebels).

There is no way to produce such a % when human shielding, civilian clothing for combatants, use of children as suicide bombers and support for the ISIS fighters seems to extend so thoroughly into what you describe as the civilian community. Every death is a tragedy and this is why the fighting must stop. If ISIS win the fighting will engulf the whole world. If Assad wins it will be mainly contained within Syria and dealt with there.

That's ridiculous. Would you have advised Jews or Christians against Hitler to support him because you are more likely to die opposing him? Why don't you advise the Christians in Iraq to support ISIS because they are more likely to die opposing it? Or tell the Sunnis (the most capable at stopping ISIS) to stop fighting ISIS because they are more likely to die opposing ISIS than supporting it?

I think the Syrians have shown that they would rather die free after all these years of being slaughtered yet still insisting on his removal.

You are not comparing like for like. These people are fighting for a false ideology that will leave them worse off than they are currently. If you actually talked to people who have escaped IS you would know what I mean!!!
 
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You seem to be living in denial about Erdogans delusions of grandeur. Even Al Jazeera has commentated on this and upon its harmful effects:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...-neo-ottoman-travesty-201451974314589207.html

1.) That is an opinion piece on Al Jazeera. There is another Al Jazeera documentary about whether there is an international conspiracy against Turkey (and they seem to say yes):


2.) You still have not proven Erdogan's Ottoman vision for Turkish expansion. Just because the West and secular Muslims hate that Turkey is becoming more religious/less secular does not mean allegations can be thrown around without proving them.

The rebuttal by quora included a lot of evidence that you seem to have ignored - for example interviews with people Amnesty cited as victims that were clear members of ISIS or Turkman organisations antagonistic to the Kurds.

Yeah. S/he made that up. I watched the entire video and no one said they were a part of ISIS nor was there a Turkmen organization mentioned that was antagonistic to the Kurds. There were people who said they'd rather live under ISIS than the Kurds who took over because ISIS was more disciplined, religious, and didn't displace them from their homes whereas the Kurds made them leave from Arab towns. Yeah, they were strict says one woman and made women cover their faces, but they never forced them out of their homes.

The Turkmen, the president of town council, explained that before ISIS and the Kurds took over their town, everyone got along regardless of ethnicity or religion (and the fact that he is a Turkmen and was the president of the council seems to bolster this claim). They were all brothers; the Kurds were given 40% of the aid by this council. He says that when ISIS came and displaced the Kurds, the Kurds equated all Arabs with ISIS. Then the PKK came and displaced the Arabs - now the Arabs will resent the Kurds even though not most of the Kurds in the town had nothing to do with the PKK. Antagonistic towards Kurds? Please.

Regarding the one village where the majority of houses were razed to the ground leaving only 14 standing the Amnesty report made no mention of Syrian air strikes or combat between opposing armies which would have produced the same effect.

Well, maybe it could have something to do with the fact that the eyewitnesses/victims of these war crimes stated it was the YPG that razed their villages. Here is an excerpt from the full report by Amnesty:

Amnesty International visited the village of Husseiniya in the Tel Hamees countryside in early August and saw that all but one of the village’s approximately 90 homes had been demolished. One former resident told Amnesty International that she was in her home when the YPG demolished it with a bulldozer. While she was allowed to flee, she was not allowed to take out her belongings. Other displaced residents told Amnesty International that they returned to Husseiniya after the YPG took control of the village to find their homes razed to the ground. They all told Amnesty International that the Administration did not provide them compensation or alternative housing, and that they were not allowed to rebuild their homes.

Local activists told Amnesty International that other villages under the control of the Administration were similarly razed, including villages south of Suluk such as Asaylem and Mushayrfa. One activist said that homes in Akrasha and Safana, in the Tel Hamees countryside, were similarly burnt down in July 2015. A resident from Asaylem village, 35 kilometres south of Suluk, told Amnesty International that he saw YPG forces demolish 100 of 103 homes after taking control of the village in June 2015. He explained that without prior notice YPG forces asked residents to leave their homes for their own security, saying that people would be allowed to return in three days. Instead of allowing returns, the YPG demolished their homes. Villagers were not provided any compensation or alternative housing, and have not been allowed to rebuild their homes.

But I guess since the perpetrators are not religious Sunni Muslims (it's okay if they're secularists who still call themselves Sunni Muslims), they get a pass to do all these things and they must still be supported.

Noone died in these incidents and they are not remotely comparable to the mass executions of ISIS which are clearly documented. Indeed as ISIS is steadily being defeated and their territory is receding we can now uncover such mass graves.

1.) I didn't say anyone died in these incidents. Me bringing up these events is to show there is more evidence of the PKK vision for Kurdish expansion than Erdogan's "Ottoman vision for Turkish expansion" as well as in reply to your statement that, "The Kurds have helped Christians providing safe haven for Iraqi Christians - another example of their maturity as a people and their readiness for nationhood."

2.) Mass executions by Assad's regime/allies are clearly documented but you insist on defending Assad and saying he should be supported over others who are no were near as bad as him.

Take for example this mass grave in which the bodies of beheaded men and women have been discovered. It amazes me that any Muslim let alone sane person could support these people when the evidence against them demonstrates that they are murderers and massacre the innocent with the guilty.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-found-after-isis-driven-out-of-a6964856.html

And take for example this article from the same outlet that details the mass extermination of the civilian population that Assad's regime is committing. It amazes me that any Christian, let alone sane person, could support these people when the evidence against them demonstrates that they are murderers and massacre the innocent with the guilty:

Syria: Assad regime kills so many detainees it amounts to 'extermination' of civilian population, UN says

Evidence for that seems rather scant and seems to defy the basic discussion within Hezbollah itself as to whether they should be involved in this fight. Any way I am not endorsing Hezbollah so it is a rather mute point.

1.) You are endorsing the regime. Hezbollah is helping the regime stay in power. Hezbollah, in fact, makes fun of the SAA for not being able to fight against the rebels and needing outside help like theirs.

2.) I don't think you read the wikipedia article very clearly as there is no basic discussion within Hezbollah mentioned in it. Instead, there are condemnations from other political leaders within and outside of Lebanon.

3.) I did not just limit it to Hezbollah. There is also the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. There are the Shi'a militias from Iraq (where they are also committing these sorts of disgusting crimes). There are other Shi'a militias from around the world that were sent by Iran to Syria.

4.) Evidence is not scant. Syrians recently fleeing Syria were interviewed:

Her husband, Yasser, a merchant who owned two stores in the city, disagrees with this analysis—he thinks Shiite militias supported by Iran are an even greater danger than Putin’s air force. “We ran away from the city because we know that after the Russians will finish it, the Iranians will come in. The Iranians are sending people to kill us for Assad.”

These militias, which are entering Syria from neighboring Iraq, have quite a reputation when it comes to killing. “They are just like ISIS, only difference is they are Shi’a and they talk Farsi,” says Yasser. “Tell me—why isn’t anyone bombing them? Why is the entire world only talking about ISIS? The Iranians in Syria burn people alive, burn children and women. Where is the world?”


Is the U.S. Supporting Mass Extermination In Syria?


I went through the document to find evidence of a genocide in Syria. Regarding the city mentioned under footnote 12 (Sadad), HRW says,

"Residents of Sadad said that over the week that opposition fighters were in the village, fighters mostly did not target or abuse residents, but that in some instances, they endangered and killed civilians and people in their custody and intentionally damaged and looted civilian sites, including churches."

There were an estimated 2,000 fighters and 44-45 civilians died during the battle between the rebels and regime forces. Residents themselves say that the fighters were, for the most part, not targeting or abusing the residents. Again, this is not a genocide.

As for the other "evidence", it is the words of a Patriarch and an Archbishop, both of whom are pro-Assad/regime and anti-rebels since the beginning. It is known among the Syrian community (and among Syrian Christians themselves) that many of their leaders are sold out to Assad's regime.

But let's assume that their words are accurate. It is against ISIS and not the rebels. Once more I will reiterate that it is the rebels who had the most continued success against ISIS without much outside help even though they are being targeted on many fronts (Assad, Hezbollah, IRG, Shi'a militias, Kurds, coalition at times, and ISIS itself). Assad has mainly left ISIS alone and his attacks against the rebels at times seemed coordinated with ISIS. Assad is the biggest customer of ISIS oil.

Assad has also committed atrocities. But he is the incumbent authority and there is little evidence to suggest that had ISIS the resources he has to bring to play that they would not have killed even more. This is a revolution. People on the revolutionary side are always more likely to die

He is the dictator who is only in power because his father staged a coup and he is suppressing the majority of the people of the country today. As for the little evidence bit, that is speculation whereas what Assad has done is reality. He/allies have killed ~200k civilians.

Secondly, no one is advocating ISIS come into power. I don't know why you and others keep trying to present it as Assad vs. ISIS when after all these years, it's mainly Assad vs. rebels and ISIS vs. rebels.

He is not going to stay in power for long. God-willing his soul will be taken to meet his Lord Who commanded not to intentionally target non-combatants.

Noone died - this is not genocide or even ethnic cleansing and also the report has many flaws as quora demonstrated and you ignored.

Hopefully you will admit that the quora user lied and you believed it without fact-checking the video s/he himself posted. I think they were banking on no one actually taking the time to watch the video.

Secondly, how was that a reasonable response to: "And how does committing ethnic cleansing against the Arab inhabitants (and even Kurdish ones, including those who disagree with their terrorism) help them in their war for existence? How does their "war for existence" justify their ethnic cleansing?"

Thirdly, for some reason you lumped Assad's genocide and atrocities with theirs and claimed there was no genocide. I'm hoping that was a mistake.

There is so much evidence for this I am surprised you can even ask the question with a straight face

http://www.christiantoday.com/artic...sing.to.fast.during.ramadan.sorcery/57807.htm

I'm afraid that's not evidence of what I asked for which was: 1.) Which non-combatant Shias and Yazidis are they killing in Syria?

Just in case it escaped your notice, I was asking about the revolutionaries (i.e. rebels). Not ISIS. But that link didn't even provide that evidence for ISIS not that I'd ever claim that they don't target non-combatants for just their religion.

So stop fighting against the Syrian government and maybe he will stop killing you

Please tell your Christian brothers and sisters to stop fighting against ISIS and maybe "they will stop killing you"

There is no way to produce such a % when human shielding, civilian clothing for combatants, use of children as suicide bombers and support for the ISIS fighters seems to extend so thoroughly into what you describe as the civilian community. Every death is a tragedy and this is why the fighting must stop. If ISIS win the fighting will engulf the whole world. If Assad wins it will be mainly contained within Syria and dealt with there.

1.) You do realize that's exactly what the regime and its allies do (including using human shileds)? Shabiha are (regime) combatants in civilian clothes and they've been in play since the uprising began. The rebels do not use the civilian population as human shields. If they have, it was a one-off thing.

2.) Clearly there was a way to produce such a percentage and the organization that did gave its methodology. Just because you, an observer with likely no contacts on the ground in Syria, say that there isn't doesn't mean that the organization that does have numerous contacts on the ground cannot.

3.) And, um, support for ISIS does not extend thoroughly at all into the civilian community (I'd imagine though, that saying support for the regime seems to extend so thoroughly into "what you describe" as the civilian community among Christians would not be looked upon very kindly if I used that as an excuse for Christian deaths).

There is a difference between daesh/ISIS (which does not enjoy popular support among the Syrian population) vs the rebels (who do enjoy popular support as they are defending the majority of the civilian population against the regime and its allies).

You are not comparing like for like. These people are fighting for a false ideology that will leave them worse off than they are currently.

I say the exact same for the regime and its allies.

If you actually talked to people who have escaped IS you would know what I mean!!!

And if you actually talked to the people who have escaped Assad, you would see you're in the wrong. But you probably would dismiss their arguments and blame their suffering on them (just stop fighting him, etc.).
 
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