Explosions in Brussels

[classicalhero]

America is the reason that ISIS exists.

Exactly, which is why they started in Syria against the Assad regime. Lovely bit of re-writing history.

 

[PatrickT]

And you know this how? In fact, it is the PKK's real interest in Syria that has to do with their vision for Kurdish expansion (under their rule; they have threatened to kill Kurds who criticize them). I provided you a link by Amnesty before showing that they have been destroying entire villages for no justifiable reason (displacing the Sunni Arab inhabitants). This coupled with the fact that they're changing the names of villages they capture (ethnically Arab) into Kurdish names show what their intent is. Just in case you didn't read about their war crimes:





Again, why? Maybe it's because you only pay attention to the news coming out of mainstream media, but if you were to pay attention to what goes on in the ground, you'd see numerous videos of those Shi'a militias behaving the exact same way or worse as ISIS. The only difference is that they're supported by the West (because they're fighting ISIS) and Assad/allies (because they're fighting Syrian Sunnis) despite their behavior against civilians.



So it shouldn't be so hard to provide evidence of the genocide against Christians in Syria at the hands of Syrian rebels. Of the 56 massacres I mentioned earlier, 1 of those massacres that displayed sectarian tendencies killed a total of 44 people (including 10 Christians). That doesn't sound like a genocide, especially since it wasn't repeated. I wouldn't put genocide past ISIS, but again, that means that the rebels are the best option against them since Assad and ISIS often ignore one another and even benefit from each other.



What about the PKK Syrian branch committing ethnic cleansing? Is that an example of their maturity as a people and their readiness for nationhood?



So it's unacceptable to work with ISIS because they're deluded murderers but it is acceptable to stand with regime/allies even though they have killed far more civilians than ISIS could even dream of killing.

Basically the point of your post seems to be that the threat of a possible genocide against Christians without much evidence is absolutely unacceptable and we cannot back those who you think would commit genocide against them (without proof) BUT an actual genocide against the Sunnis with a lot of evidence is sad, but hey, it happens and we have to embrace the worst option, the one committing genocide, in this conflict because of some warped logic?

The only true sad thing is your unbroken alliance with ISIS and their murderous friends.

Good news for you, right now Mossul is stormed and fred. And Assads troops retake Palmyra.

 

[PatrickT]

Exactly, which is why they started in Syria against the Assad regime. Lovely bit of re-writing history.

You are wrong. ISIS was founded from unemployed security forces from Iraq. Their leader is a former security officer from Saddam. Bush fired all military staff when he illegally conquered Iraq. They later on moved to the syrian theater and get weapons from USA to fight Assad in another US based revolution. The complete destabilisation of the middle east is the work of the USA. Thanks for that.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Turkey Official Says Belgium Was Warned Of Suspected Attacker’s Terror Links

A senior Turkish official told BuzzFeed News that Turkish authorities warned Belgium that Ibrahim el-Bakraoui had links to ISIS as early as this summer but the Belgians declined to act.

After being detained in the city of Gaziantep, near the Turkey-Syria border, Ibrahim el-Bakraoui was sent to the Netherlands rather than to Belgium at his request, the senior official said, saying that Turkey allowed EU citizens to choose the country to which they will be deported.

The official said that on July 7 and July 14, the Turkish government notified the Belgians of its belief that el-Bakraoui had links to terrorism. Belgium replied on July 20, the official said, saying that they had detained him earlier but had released him for lack of evidence.

The official said that Turkey wrote back to Belgium to insist that el-Bakraoui was considered a foreign fighter with links to Syria. He said that his government was considering releasing the diplomatic notes between the two countries, but were holding back out of respect for the people of Belgium.

“This is a time for solidarity,” the official said, “not the blame game.”

—Borzou Daragahi

Live Updates: Suspected Paris Bombmaker Killed In Brussels Airport Attack

Turkey also tried to warn France about one of its attackers.

 

[PatrickT]

Turkey Official Says Belgium Was Warned Of Suspected Attacker’s Terror Links

A senior Turkish official told BuzzFeed News that Turkish authorities warned Belgium that Ibrahim el-Bakraoui had links to ISIS as early as this summer but the Belgians declined to act.

After being detained in the city of Gaziantep, near the Turkey-Syria border, Ibrahim el-Bakraoui was sent to the Netherlands rather than to Belgium at his request, the senior official said, saying that Turkey allowed EU citizens to choose the country to which they will be deported.

The official said that on July 7 and July 14, the Turkish government notified the Belgians of its belief that el-Bakraoui had links to terrorism. Belgium replied on July 20, the official said, saying that they had detained him earlier but had released him for lack of evidence.

The official said that Turkey wrote back to Belgium to insist that el-Bakraoui was considered a foreign fighter with links to Syria. He said that his government was considering releasing the diplomatic notes between the two countries, but were holding back out of respect for the people of Belgium.

“This is a time for solidarity,” the official said, “not the blame game.”

—Borzou Daragahi

Live Updates: Suspected Paris Bombmaker Killed In Brussels Airport Attack

Turkey also tried to warn France about one of its attackers.

Turkey can´t be trusted. When germany closed down its embassy + german institutes in Istanbaul turkey called it scare mongering. One day later suicide attack was done from ISIS at a market in istanbul. Erdogan uses terrorists to create chaos.

 

[classicalhero]

You are wrong. ISIS was founded from unemployed security forces from Iraq. Their leader is a former security officer from Saddam. Bush fired all military staff when he illegally conquered Iraq. They later on moved to the syrian theater and get weapons from USA to fight Assad in another US based revolution. The complete destabilisation of the middle east is the work of the USA. Thanks for that.

Islamic State started out in Syria well before the US had left Iraq and Iraq was relatively stable under the US forces, but once they were taken the chaos in Syria spilled over to Iraq.

 

[nightflight]

Civil police action and criminal prosecutiob. I say this with 20/20 hindsight, but there it is.

Attacking the Pentagon was a military action. Duh.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You are wrong. he was sued because he belonged to banned group "Shariah4belgium". He left for syria in 2014.

Again, this is just not true.

He left in November 2012. When his name fell during the court case against Shariah4Belgium, he was already in Syria. He never returned and got himself killed over there.

His pregnant wife died in Syria in 2013.

http://www.brusselstimes.com/belgiu...er-worker-at-doel-nuclear-plant-dies-in-syria

"...who worked as a technician at Doel nuclear power plant for years before departing for Syria in November 2012."

You should also not forget that in August 2014 in the nuclear power plant of Doel someone manually sabotaged the main turbine. The result was a broken main turbine and an emergency shut down of the reactor.

Yes. And it is unkown who did it.
It certainly wasn't Ilyass Boughalab, as he was already in Syria for 2 years at that time.

They let ISIS members work in their nuclear power plants out of political correctness.

No, at no point was a known jihadi working in that power plant.

Stop spreading lies.

 

[All Englands Skies]

What would have been an appropriate reaction to 9/11?

To strengthen security measures, to condemn it and guard against it.

But invading Afghanistan was futile and had paved the way for Islamic extremism to grow, not shrink. Bombs and guns can't defeat an ideology (unless you go down the route of complete scorched earth, eridication and genocide and remove all trace of that ideology, which to turn to those methods, makes monsters of the people carrying out), they only make it stronger. It was a reaction based on getting "justice" and making those "accountable" pay, never works, a moment of feeling you've avenged something is quickly over and the problem is worse.

The hard line Islamists are Sociopathic/Narcissistic in nature and the best way to deal with a Sociopathic/narcissistic traits is to ignore them, once you give a reaction, they then have a platform to use against you

Before 9/11 nobody even thought of Muslims hardly, 9/11 was about drawing the west into wars, which in turn makes more Muslims join their world wide cause.

I think Islam does the kind of stuff as standard and always has, I am not blaming American foreign policy for any of it (Islamists have also gained from US foreign policy too, especially in the 1980s and 1990s, funny how they forget that), however I can see its the scapegoat, "reason" and excuse they were looking for.

The way to deal with these people it too flatly say they're evil, in the same manner we treat Neo-Nazis who people flatly condemn and don't make excuses for, by stopping any excuses and conjecture that is always brought up, like "American foreign policy", "Discrimination", "well we did this to them....." etc, because it just feeds their Narcissistic persecution complex. Before 9/11 nobody even batted an eyelid about Muslims, but since 9/11 people have confronted Muslims a lot, so really Islamic extremism is the reason for so called "Islamophobia", Muslims should start being rational enough to see that themselves, that the reason they are now supposedly "marginalised" is due to the extremist element in their own religion, so then they turn to extremism themselves?

If after a bomb goes of, "westerners" get condemned for knee jerk reactions and judging all Muslims and joining groups like the EDL, Muslims who knee-jerk towards stuff against them and slip into extremism are just as ignorant, their should not be excuses made, if westerners are supposed to be rational enough to not judge all Muslims, it needs to be reinforced to Muslims to also be rational enough to not judge all westerners, to not blame the "west" as a whole for the actions of leaders and armed forces, if they cant separate differences within the west, why are we to separate differences amongst Islam? (and to be honest, I think the differences are much harder to see and the waters more "muddy" and lines blurred in Islam, sorry, this is my opinion)

 

[PatrickT]

Islamic State started out in Syria well before the US had left Iraq and Iraq was relatively stable under the US forces, but once they were taken the chaos in Syria spilled over to Iraq.

wrong. ISIS was founded in Iraq. It´s precedessor was al Sarkawi. ISIS was then build around his former group.

 

[PatrickT]

Again, this is just not true.

He left in November 2012. When his name fell during the court case against Shariah4Belgium, he was already in Syria. He never returned and got himself killed over there.

His pregnant wife died in Syria in 2013.

http://www.brusselstimes.com/belgiu...er-worker-at-doel-nuclear-plant-dies-in-syria

"...who worked as a technician at Doel nuclear power plant for years before departing for Syria in November 2012."



Yes. And it is unkown who did it.
It certainly wasn't Ilyass Boughalab, as he was already in Syria for 2 years at that time.



No, at no point was a known jihadi working in that power plant.

Stop spreading lies.

11 persons got banned today from entering the nuclear plant.

Thats right. 11 people with islamist connection worked in a nuclear powerplant in Belgium and are seen as a big enough risk that they get their permission removed to enter their work place.

I guess they aren´t buddhists...

 

[expos4ever]

But invading Afghanistan was futile and had paved the way for Islamic extremism to grow, not shrink. Bombs and guns can't defeat an ideology (unless you go down the route of complete scorched earth, eridication and genocide and remove all trace of that ideology, which to turn to those methods, makes monsters of the people carrying out), they only make it stronger. It was a reaction based on getting "justice" and making those "accountable" pay, never works, a moment of feeling you've avenged something is quickly over and the problem is worse.

I agree and I lament what I see as the unwillingness of many to recognize the pernicious appeal of that momentary feeling of satisfaction that accompanies revenge.

The hard line Islamists are Sociopathic/Narcissistic in nature and the best way to deal with a Sociopathic/narcissistic traits is to ignore them, once you give a reaction, they then have a platform to use against you

Inclined to agree here, too. Do you agree with me that CNN (and other news agencies) only make things work by their over-the-top coverage of terrorist actions?

 

[All Englands Skies]

Inclined to agree here, too. Do you agree with me that CNN (and other news agencies) only make things work by their over-the-top coverage of terrorist actions?

Yes, because to Sociopathic/Narcissistic thinking, any "attention" is "Good attention", they thrive off it.

If they're being hero-worshipped or demonised, extremists don't care and bathe in the rays of such attention which ever, as long as their in the limelight and their causes are highlighted, they're happy.

Yes I do disagree with Islam, 100%, however that does not mean I cannot co-exist, because their is plenty of others I totally disagree with and manage to co-exist with, atheists, hindus, buddhists, agnostics, baha'is, spritualists, various political beliefs, as long as no violence is involved, people can co-exist, debate and disagree.

 

[nightflight]

The way to deal with these people it too flatly say they're evil,

Yeah, that'll learn 'em!

Maybe it would have worked with the Nazis, too.

Before 9/11 nobody even thought of Muslims hardly, 9/11 was about drawing the west into wars, which in turn makes more Muslims join their world wide cause.

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].......seriously???? No one thought of Muslims before 9/11???

I don't even know how to respond to this stunning, breathtaking lack of historical perspective. Face palm.

 

[classicalhero]

wrong. ISIS was founded in Iraq. It´s precedessor was al Sarkawi. ISIS was then build around his former group.

But while the US where there they basically had no power, but during the Civil war in Syria they had power. Their rise to power started in Syria and for all purposes that is where it was formed, otherwise without any power it would just some aimless group, but Syria was where it's power was built. Without Syria descending into chaos, Islamic State would be simply part of Al Qaeda not a separate group with all this power they now have, which thankfully is diminishing. Without Syria Islamic State would be nothing. Without the the USS withdrawal they would be nothing.

 

[All Englands Skies]

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].......seriously???? No one thought of Muslims before 9/11???

I don't even know how to respond to this stunning, breathtaking lack of historical perspective. Face palm.

Okay "no one thought of" , its a phrase/slang due to the area I live in, meaning It was not a huge focus point in the media or society, Muslim extremism was not a massive issue to the masses (well in my nation, the UK) until after 9/11, most people if you mentioned "Muslims" before 9/11 just though of it as "another religion" and the extremist connection was not big in their minds.

I did mean not literally "nobody thought about Muslims" as if they did not exist.

But then again, its always fun to jump on somebody comments and get them way out of context, for the chance to be a smart-alec

 

[Chris B]

Do you agree with me that CNN (and other news agencies) only make things work by their over-the-top coverage of terrorist actions?

Totally. There is a massive lack of proportion in the reporting (UK channels too) which does no-one any good except terrorists.

Perversely, if it was 100 dead around the West* each and every day, it would not be that long before it *wasn't* major news.
News needs to be new, with current mentalities. Much more telling issues that happen to be ongoing find themselves lackng in coverage: attention slips, and is directed to, the spectacular and the novel.

Another factor is the broaching, for many, of illusory perceptions of safety.
This can be traumatic even though little actual change of personal risk has taken place.
And the new perceptions of risk and danger can be even more out of scale to life's actual dangers than the previous ones about safety were.
(the "drunk on a horse" syndrome.)

If we can't get people to see this calmly and sensibly, we'll just have to simulate the effect with distraction by increasing the volume on even more mindless celebrity, fashion, sport and entertainment.

Chris

 

[expos4ever]

Totally. There is a massive lack of proportion in the reporting (UK channels too) which does no-one any good except terrorists........

In the spirit of activism, do you think there is anything we the masses can do to discourage news media from revelling in the bloodshed, thereby furthering the goals of the terrorists?

 

[PatrickT]

But while the US where there they basically had no power, but during the Civil war in Syria they had power. Their rise to power started in Syria and for all purposes that is where it was formed, otherwise without any power it would just some aimless group, but Syria was where it's power was built. Without Syria descending into chaos, Islamic State would be simply part of Al Qaeda not a separate group with all this power they now have, which thankfully is diminishing. Without Syria Islamic State would be nothing. Without the the USS withdrawal they would be nothing.

USA heavily supplied ISIS with weapons, funds and ground support to fight Assad. We all know that USA has zero competence regarding situation in middle east and always armed terrorists who then went rough.

 

[Dan Bert]

Lands of inheritance has nothing to do with the Good Samaritan story. In the Samaritan story both belonged where they lived. We need to love our enemies...but to allow them to come into our land and pollute it, is another matter. Remember the Holy city will have only twelve Gates (Revelation). And those Gates are for the twelve tribes of Israel..and each of those gates will have an Angel to ensure only those people enter through it.. There is no gates that says Muslims, Christians, Anglicans....Only those who get adopted by the Spirit of Adoption into one of tribes will be able to enter. What is happening in Europe is only the beginning and it will end in civil war where there will be no quarter given from each side. What we need to do...is help when we can and let God do the rest. Our ancestors paid the price for the liberty we now hold...they have not and we are not helping them. Also it was prophesied ....that his hand will be against everyone and everyone will be against him... Should mean something to people who believed in the bible. If you invite serpents into your own homes it will not end well.

dan

Yikes. Consider the parable of the Good Samaritan. He took a risk in helping the beaten man - he put his own self-interests behind those of the injured Jewish man. And, more to the point in this context, Jews and Samaritans hated each other. I suggest Jesus' point is clear: we need to risk to show love, even to our enemies. If thousands are fleeing a war, we need to help them, and if that involves some degree of risk I would like to think I am willing to accept that.