Wife Not Reformed

I would emphasize the desperately fallen condition of the human heart. God's need for intervention then becomes apparent once we come to grips with that.

Live what you believe before her and answer her questions when she asks but don't try to convert her to Calvinism. When you lead your family Bible study simply show what the Scriptures are teaching. The best way to lead her into truth is to walk before her as an example of what the truth does in the life and heart. Most of all be patient and kind and leave the rest to the Lord to open her eyes to the truth.

See to it that she hears the truth preached in a Christ centered way instead of just doctrine. Correct doctrine that is not vitally connected to the person and work of Christ is dead doctrine. Speak to her of electing love not just election. Talk to her about an accomplished redemption brought about by the wondrous love and grace of God in Christ. Make your remarks about God effectually calling His chosen by reaching down and bringing them out of darkness, filth and depravity with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm through the preaching of the love of Christ for His people. The truth of God is appealing when it is bathed in the person and work of Christ.

When I was a church goer I had a similar struggle. I wanted to go to the old reformed churches filled with old people and she wanted to go to the more mainline churches with people our age. I was a Calvinist and she was not...I think. People want different things out of churches. I was their to learn and pray and she was their for fellowship. Either way it's not easy. But don't stress about it and don't be domineering about it either. Love her and follow a path where you will both be at peace. Find a middle ground.

I think twins advice might be helpful to you.

Dear Taylor, unfortunately it's a situation where I do not think there is a "one size fits all" answer. My situation is similar to gord's. Something I am thankful for though, I wouldn't say my wife is really opposed to the Reformed faith, at least that I know or can tell, and when I do try to explain some things she tends to agree. But there are many differences between us, like where we are at, and what we want. Like tonight, I griped about her spending money and in return she griped about my monthly Logos bill and the almost weekly $5 Friday purchases from Ligonier. She doesn't see the difference in spending $5 on a DVD series from Ligonier and spending $5 on a shirt that will spend a good deal of time waded up on the floor.

Anyway, I would be careful and patient about undoing Arminianism. It would probably be best to be subtle and drop hints. My greatest worry in undoing Arminianism with anybody really (online where people want to debate is somewhat different though), is that it can backfire majorly...it can turn into the test as to whether or not the person is really saved, whether or not they are one of God's elect. I can remember the crisis of faith I had in the short time between converting to Calvinism, it came down to agnosticism or Calvinism, because the Arminianism I held to had been shattered, exposed, the many errors opened before mine eyes. I would rather people be Christians with errors (not that I am without any) than to abandon the faith altogether, or to apostatize. At least with a Christian in error, there is still hope, with an apostate, there really isn't much hope, nothing short of a miracle, a supernatural act of divine intervention from God could ever be effective. Not to mention Scripture (Arminians have alternative interpretations), but I came to realize (by the grace of God) that Arminianism cannot adequately account for absolute objective truth, and that played a key role, because I am the type of person that has always believed in absolute objective truth (though I did not always practice or understand or confess such, quite the opposite in my younger days), that we can know at least some truths for certain. To know Christ, is to know the truth, for He is the truth in the sense that apart from Him one cannot account for truth.

I actually went through this with my husband (I'm a Calvinist and he's not). We first attended an Arminian Baptist church when we moved. Over time this church really went way off the rails. I saw it coming a lot faster than DH did, but eventually he had enough as well. At that time we became aware of another church in a neighbouring city that sounded promising. We gave it a try, and have been there for four years since. It is Calvinistic, but not overtly so. The pastors are Calvinists (except the youth pastor, but that's another story...). Many of the members and adherents are not Calvinist and aren't even aware that the church's denominational statement of faith reflects that this is what they teach. But over time, the senior pastor has been addressing the doctrines of grace carefully, and the church as a whole is growing both spiritually and numerically. It's pretty cool to see, especially since I live in such a spiritually dark part of the world, in a city full of churches that don't preach or teach the Gospel at all.

So, between sitting under good teaching, and my husband listening to discussions from brothers in the faith and sermons I listen to at home, he's become much more open to Calvinism, and has come to accept at least some of it.

Most of all, I highly recommend contacting pastors in the Chicago area via phone or email, and touching base with them. Explain your situation to them and see what they have to say. You will want a church that is solidly grounded in the Gospel, first and foremost. Most likely that will be a reformed church, though that may not be something they overtly advertise.

As a PCA member, 30 years of happy marriage to a Roman "catholic" who is a True Christian and enthusiastically on board with all 5 solas now, is as rabid a Bible-inerrantist fundamentalist as I: we have way, way more in common than I would with not only the PCUSA but I dare say the majority of the PCA. We both decry Peter Leithart, the softening on Genesis by such as Tim Keller and any "insider movement" or female church officers.

I think focusing on the Arminian/Calvinist divide is absurd. First, I am neither, as I deny constraining God by one (of the many) systems of man-made logic. Second, if you equivocate on the inspiration of Scripture (terrible word, as Scripture is expired by God), then you have no sola scritura or any basis for making any Biblical stand. Third, "Reformed" theology is a vague term, as it involves many things, such as paedo-baptism, covenental gramatico-hitoricocal hemeneutics (christocentric, not christotelic), as well as the Augustinian soetriology.

I think you are focused on the wrong thing altogether. Assuming your wife is a True Christian and she is willing to follow you, first "major on the majors" such as Biblical inerrancy, the solas and the rest will follow.

Oh, and we have 4 kids, all are PCA members, rabid fundamentalists like thier father, especially so as they all went through Roman "catholic" parochial schools that tried to inculcate them with evolution, the Bible as myth and prayers to the saints ect. Each child rejected it in favor of the Truth and went through college arguing agains all their liberal professors with gusto (except my youngest, who is itching to go to college and laugh off the liberal stupidity as did her siblings). Did not do family devotions and rarely took my kids to my Church, only if they wanted to go, while they were forced to go to Roman masses, catechisms and all that jazz.

The influence of a MARRIED involved father on the belief system of his children is HUGE, totally out of proportion to the time spent and far greater than that of the mother. Read the sociological research on it.

Love Christ, read your Bible and be always ready to give an answer for the certain hope that is within you. If God is True to His Word, trust Him when He says you ARE the leader of your home, and they will follow. Or not, because we are supplicants before the throne, not there to make demands.

JR

So why is my wife still in the RC?

1- She likes high church liturgy, as do I, but try finding a PCA high Chuch liturgy in Miami Florida.

2- Like me, she is of Jewish lineage, so we are stubborn people.

3- Unlike me, she is a woman, and it is her glory to be inconsistent.

JR

I don't think any defence of the Five Points which uses logic and not Bible verses is worth much anyway.

There are all sorts of Calvinisms out there. You wife probably doesn't need most of them.

Don't push anything. Couples tend to evolve theologically in similar directions, just be patient and wait on God.

My wife struggled with the (Reformed) faith for a while. Now she's more zealous than I.

God is good.

Edit. Post unhelpful.

When I think about James Carville and Mary Matalin... total opposites married and happy... is anything else too hard for GOD???

First, your differences didn't matter before you were married...so they should not have such weight immediately. You do need to agree on some major things before children come along and need to be trained...

Why not find a study you both can enjoy...and rather than go in that you are correct and she needs to change view...that you both might find things along the way you did not know and want to embrace, and vice versa?

Only those things that affect a person's salvation is worth arguing over, imo. You say you are both believers, and that's where you begin.

(These matters should have been ironed out in counseling before marriage though...impo)

Be well.

TaylorSexton said:

Hello, everyone!

I would like to request some guidance.

I recently got married to my best friend. We are getting ready to move to Chicago for me to attend TEDS. As the spiritual leader of the household, I am taking it upon myself to find a church for us. There is just one problem: I am reformed, she is not. However, she has always expressed her desire to submit to my leadership and I have every intention of leading her according to and exposing her to biblical truth.

I just wanted to ask how any of you much wiser folks would go about introducing reformed concepts and theology in a situation like this. We have already discussed predestination, but she seemed pretty opposed to it. That is understandable. She has been raised Arminian her whole life and the idea of predestination rubs with the flesh. However, i have no doubt she is a true believer. I just don't want to blow all of her currently-held theology out of the water. I want it to be a patient and loving experience. I don't want to go to Romans 9 and rub it in her face, you know?

If you have no advice, then please pray for us, brothers and sisters.

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Did you get married or adopt a wife? If you two can't agree on a church please don't pretend to be friends. It is an insult to your wife... unless of course she likes that kind of thing.

Go to an Arminian site and learn something... and to rub it in her face,... geez now thats real leadership... sound anything like Jesus????

JM said:

My wife struggled with the (Reformed) faith for a while. Now she's more zealous than I.

God is good.

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I only wish our wives could get together, yours could seriously help mine. I don't even know how to help, especially given our circumstances. Praise God for bringing peace and harmony to your household, for the agreement in matters where it is most important and helpful for all of life. What a firm foundation!

Andrea411 said:

Did you get married or adopt a wife? If you two can't agree on a church please don't pretend to be friends. It is an insult to your wife... unless of course she likes that kind of thing.

Go to an Arminian site and learn something... and to rub it in her face,... geez now thats real leadership... sound anything like Jesus????

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FYI your post is snotty.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

I only wish our wives could get together, yours could seriously help mine. I don't even know how to help, especially given our circumstances. Praise God for bringing peace and harmony to your household, for the agreement in matters where it is most important and helpful for all of life. What a firm foundation!

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We are in agreement on all points soteriological. On the Regulative Principle...that's another matter. A thorny issue in fact. But God is good.

I think PCUSA lets men and women work together and share beliefs. I have a huge problem with men boasting they should be the spiritual leader and tell women to summit to the dictator. I'm for modern interpretation according to our new culture. this topic is still old fashioned and out of date. reformed means renew yourself.

tulipbee said:

I think PCUSA lets men and women work together and share beliefs. I have a huge problem with men boasting they should be the spiritual leader and tell women to summit to the dictator. I'm for modern interpretation according to our new culture. this topic is still old fashioned and out of date. reformed means renew yourself.

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The PCUSA might be a compromise. We teach a fairly "soft" type of election. However the OP is a YEC. I doubt he'll be happy in the PCUSA (though in Georgia it's more conservative that the churches I'm used to).

TaylorSexton said:

Hello, everyone!

I would like to request some guidance.

I recently got married to my best friend. We are getting ready to move to Chicago for me to attend TEDS. As the spiritual leader of the household, I am taking it upon myself to find a church for us. There is just one problem: I am reformed, she is not. However, she has always expressed her desire to submit to my leadership and I have every intention of leading her according to and exposing her to biblical truth.

I just wanted to ask how any of you much wiser folks would go about introducing reformed concepts and theology in a situation like this. We have already discussed predestination, but she seemed pretty opposed to it. That is understandable. She has been raised Arminian her whole life and the idea of predestination rubs with the flesh. However, i have no doubt she is a true believer. I just don't want to blow all of her currently-held theology out of the water. I want it to be a patient and loving experience. I don't want to go to Romans 9 and rub it in her face, you know?

If you have no advice, then please pray for us, brothers and sisters.

Taylor Sexton

Piedmont College - Demorest, GA
B.A. in Music Performance with concentrations in Percussion and Organ (2014)

Trinity Evangelical Divinity School - Deerfield, IL
M.Div. Program

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Hi Taylor,

I'm sorry to say this, but something is wrong that your "M.Div. Program" didn't teach you not to become "unequally yoked."

Also: You make it a point to display your theological accomplishments to the world. And: you make statements like the following: "I just don't want to blow all of her currently-held theology out of the water" & "I don't want to go to Romans 9 and rub it in her face, you know?"

Now, I have to warn you (and I pray you'll take it to heart): If you continue that kind of mind-set it's very likely that she will someday (possibly very soon) cease to be your "best friend."

Sincerely, Al

"Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips." {Proverbs 27:2}

P.S.--When I read your post, and your signature at the bottom of it, to my wife, she responded: "I'd hate to be married to that guy."

Sadly, Al