3rd Temple coming soon..

B2 you might therefore remove the letter of Hebrews from your Bible and use it to wipe with, right?

Salvation is of the Jews because Abraham believed that it was how the nations would be saved, ie, credited righteousness. He always knew it was a thing that would save the nations, which era is now, since the Gospel (or Pentecost, if Jack is right).

The idea that Jesus said "this is the new covenant in my blood which shall just be for Jewish people" is as obnoxious as anything else in the futurist and D'ist toybox and has no place in adult Christian thinking. B2 didn't say that, but that's what he means with his childish, straitjacketed literalism; he just doesn't know it. See the thread on the excitement of the apostles about the mission.

Futurism is a tragedy, because the more you realize the contagion of being in God's mission is built into the reach of the Gospel, the more destitute all these complicated futurist, back to Judaism's worship system delusions are. They remove the natural excitement supposed to be their for the mission. This era, this Gospel, is about our mission now. It is not about this futurist past-time, or hobby or prognostication of world events.

Interplanner said:

B2 you might therefore remove the letter of Hebrews from your Bible and use it to wipe with, right?

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You think that you are being cute but you are not, at least not to me.

shturt678s said:

If it really is going to make a difference then I guess regarding IIThess.2:4 we could say the Antichrist reveals himself as the antichrist by this pagan act of seating himself in the true God's brick and mortor "Temple" with all the courtyards and tons of other stuff with the non brick and mortor Holy place joined with the Most Holy Place ("Sanctuary"). Thus where exactly do you want this antichrist to actually sit, for example in the worman's brick and mortor courtyard, ie, where specifically do you want him to sit if not in the Sanctuary?

Old Jack sitting down awaiting for your reply, ei, old age thing.

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WHERE did God dwell in the old Tabernacle? Of course in the Holy of Holies.
So WHERE ELSE would someone go pretending to be God? He will go into a brick and mortar temple, and into the holy of Holies.

LAMAD

Interplanner said:

Salvation is of the Jews because Abraham believed that it was how the nations would be saved, ie, credited righteousness. He always knew it was a thing that would save the nations, which era is now, since the Gospel (or Pentecost, if Jack is right).

The idea that Jesus said "this is the new covenant in my blood which shall just be for Jewish people" is as obnoxious as anything else in the futurist and D'ist toybox and has no place in adult Christian thinking. B2 didn't say that, but that's what he means with his childish, straitjacketed literalism; he just doesn't know it. See the thread on the excitement of the apostles about the mission.

Futurism is a tragedy, because the more you realize the contagion of being in God's mission is built into the reach of the Gospel, the more destitute all these complicated futurist, back to Judaism's worship system delusions are. They remove the natural excitement supposed to be their for the mission. This era, this Gospel, is about our mission now. It is not about this futurist past-time, or hobby or prognostication of world events.

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FUTURISM is TRUTH, the above is only myth.

Do you imagine things will just continue as they are forever? Do you imagine God gave John His revelation only to reminisce?

LAMAD

Jordanian minister accuses Israel of planning to erect the third Temple

Islamic endowments minister says Israel wants to partition the Temple Mount

That article is a year old... where's the temple?

iamlamad said:

WHERE did God dwell in the old Tabernacle? Of course in the Holy of Holies.
So WHERE ELSE would someone go pretending to be God? He will go into a brick and mortar temple, and into the holy of Holies.

LAMAD

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First you need to explain how a future Jewish temple will be "Holy".

iamlamad said:

WHERE did God dwell in the old Tabernacle? Of course in the Holy of Holies.
So WHERE ELSE would someone go pretending to be God? He will go into a brick and mortar temple, and into the holy of Holies.

LAMAD

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So could we call the Holy of Holies and Holy Place made one the "Sancturay? :o

Old unholy Jack

Originally Posted by iamlamad

WHERE did God dwell in the old Tabernacle? Of course in the Holy of Holies.
So WHERE ELSE would someone go pretending to be God? He will go into a brick and mortar temple, and into the holy of Holies.

LAMAD​

Click to expand...

parousia70 said:

First you need to explain how a future Jewish temple will be "Holy".

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Good point!


.

JLB,
there is a misunderstanding about building a 3rd temple. There could be one but it would be a tragedy. That's different from not believing there could be one.

to be more excited about the coming of a 3rd temple than our mission for the Gospel, would be to indicate something that is almost a spiritual illness.

If you missed the tragedy of what happened in the 1st century (and most people are very dismissive of that material because they hate to see Jesus 'tainted' with actually saying something vital and stunning about his own times, because "our" times are SO important) you are probably missing the disaster of a 3rd temple in terms of NT theology, and Judaism and the Gospel generally.

iamlamad said in post 884:

WHERE did God dwell in the old Tabernacle? Of course in the Holy of Holies.
So WHERE ELSE would someone go pretending to be God? He will go into a brick and mortar temple, and into the holy of Holies.

Click to expand...

That's right.

And regarding the Antichrist first entering the temple's most holy place, it is possible that instead of entering from its front, he could enter through an opening broken through its back wall. This possibility arises when we consider the symbolism associated with the original tabernacle:

The parts of the Old Covenant Mosaic tabernacle could have foreshadowed YHWH's New Covenant way of salvation (Jeremiah 31:31-34): The altar for animal sacrifices (Exodus 27:1, Exodus 29:12-13) could have foreshadowed Christ's New Covenant sacrifice (Matthew 26:28). The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have foreshadowed water baptism (Acts 22:16). The menorah with its flames (Exodus 25:31,37) could have foreshadowed Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5, Acts 2:3-4). The table with its shewbread (Exodus 25:23,30) could have foreshadowed communion (1 Corinthians 11:26). The altar for incense (Exodus 30:1) could have foreshadowed Christian prayer (cf. Revelation 8:4). The ark of the covenant (Exodus 25:10, Numbers 10:33) with its mercy seat (Exodus 25:21) could have foreshadowed the establishment of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28) and Christians obtaining its mercy (Hebrews 4:16), unto eternal life (Jude 1:21).

At the same time, the tabernacle could have been a figurative model of the earth and its 3 heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2b). The tabernacle's courtyard could have represented the earth and its atmosphere, the first heaven (Genesis 1:20b). The tabernacle's holy place could have represented the 2nd heaven, outer space (Deuteronomy 4:19). And the tabernacle's most holy place could have represented the 3rd heaven spiritual realm (2 Corinthians 12:2b). In the tabernacle's courtyard, the altar (Exodus 27:1) could have represented the earth's land areas. The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have represented the sea (cf. also "the sea" part of the first temple: 1 Kings 7:23). And the veil between the courtyard and the holy place (Exodus 26:36) could have represented the atmosphere. The 5 pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:37) could have represented the 5 most powerful (now fallen) angelic princes who (before they were fallen) were assigned by God to rule the earth from its atmosphere/sky/air (Ephesians 6:12). The central of these 5 pillars could have represented Lucifer (Satan), "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), while the other 4 pillars could have represented 4 of his most powerful lieutenants.

In the tabernacle's holy place, the 7 lights (Exodus 25:37) could have represented the 7 (moving) lights in outer space visible to the naked eye from the viewpoint of earth: the sun, the moon, the first planet from the sun, the 2nd planet, the 4th planet, the 5th planet, and the 6th planet. The 12 loaves (Leviticus 24:5-6) could have represented the 12 constellations of the Mazzaroth (Job 38:32). At the same time, the 7 lights (both in the tabernacle and in the sky) could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God" (Revelation 4:5b).

In the tabernacle's most holy place, the veil between the holy place and the most holy place (Exodus 26:33b) could have represented the line between outer space (space-time throughout the universe) and the 3rd heaven spiritual realm. The 4 pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:32) could have represented the 4 dimensions of space-time, and the 4 fundamental forces of space-time (gravity, electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force), and the 4 possible states of matter in space-time (solid, liquid, gas, plasma), so that going past the 4 pillars could have represented going beyond space-time and into the 3rd heaven spiritual realm. At the same time, all the different sets of 4 things referred to above could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's 4 beasts/seraphims (Revelation 4:8, Isaiah 6:2-3).

The vertical boards which formed the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place included 6 boards (Exodus 26:22) of a regular width of 1.5 cubits (Exodus 26:16) plus two corner boards (Exodus 26:23) which each had to have been 1/3 the regular width, so that the width of the back wall would be 10 cubits, equal to the 10-cubit height of the boards (Exodus 26:16), and equal to the 10-cubit length of the most holy place (this length being based on the tabernacle's top-covering curtains in Exodus 26:1-13 having been most likely coupled by the gold taches at the line between the holy place and the most holy place). That is, in order for the most holy place to have been a perfect cube, 10 cubits (15 feet) on a side (similar to how the literal, heavenly city of New Jerusalem is a perfect cube, 1,500 miles on a side: Revelation 21:16), the back wall of the tabernacle had to have been formed by the equivalent of 6.66 regular-width boards.

That the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place had, in effect, the number 6.66 connected with it could have represented the Antichrist's future rebellion. For the gematrial number of his personal name is 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). And he could break through the back wall of the 3rd Jewish temple (which will be built), and he could then enter in that back way when he sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). He could take great delight in entering the temple's most holy place by this forced, "back way", for it would show his utter rejection of YHWH's way to eternal life, pictured by the tabernacle.

parousia70 said in post 888:

First you need to explain how a future Jewish temple will be "Holy".

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The 3rd Jewish temple which will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, 2 Thessalonians 2:4) will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17). For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That is why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20).

This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

parousia70 said:

First you need to explain how a future Jewish temple will be "Holy".

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"Holy," not in reality, not to the Christian, not to God, but to the JEW. Do you still fail to understand the "anti" part of Antichrist? The man of sin will come IN THE PLACE of Christ. Yes, of course He will be AGAINST Christ too. Please keep in mind, what Jesus said: "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." And "all the world wondered after the beast. And they ["all the world"] worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?" This is MOST CERTAINLY include many Jews.

Over the years, many have come, and the man of sin turned Beast will be the last. Most, if not all false religions are expecting him to come. CERTAINLY the Muslims are.

He will not appear in some Buddhist temple, or some Hindu temple: they are ALREADY lost. No, He will come to the JEWISH temple, because the Jews (Hebrews) were GOD's people and Satan knows of ALL the promises God has made to them. One of His purposes is to make God out to be a liar.

LAMAD

The Holy Place, is the name of the "room" within the temple.

Just because they build another Temple and call the area within the "holy place', does not mean it is holy.

It is the place where the AOD is placed.


JLB

Lamad, does the NT use the term "holy" the way the unbelieving Jew would use it?

iamlamad said:

"Holy," not in reality, not to the Christian, not to God, but to the JEW. Do you still fail to understand the "anti" part of Antichrist? The man of sin will come IN THE PLACE of Christ. Yes, of course He will be AGAINST Christ too. Please keep in mind, what Jesus said: "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." And "all the world wondered after the beast. And they ["all the world"] worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?" This is MOST CERTAINLY include many Jews.

Over the years, many have come, and the man of sin turned Beast will be the last. Most, if not all false religions are expecting him to come. CERTAINLY the Muslims are.

He will not appear in some Buddhist temple, or some Hindu temple: they are ALREADY lost. No, He will come to the JEWISH temple, because the Jews (Hebrews) were GOD's people and Satan knows of ALL the promises God has made to them. One of His purposes is to make God out to be a liar.

LAMAD

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The whole Third Temple restoration movement is satanic because there is no salvation and redeemer in a Jewish Temple.

Here is where the real temple of God exists:

Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

random person said:

The whole Third Temple restoration movement is satanic because there is no salvation and redeemer in a Jewish Temple.

Here is where the real temple of God exists:

Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

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What difference does any of this mean to a JEW that does not believe his or her Messiah has come yet?

My only point was there WILL BE a Jewish temple built soon. The reason WHY will be left to the Jews that build it. God said it will be, so I believe it will be. Will God's presence come to this temple as He did so long ago? I doubt it seriously, but that will be up to HIM.

There WILL BE a new temple in the millennial kingdom of Christ. It is Ezekiel's temple. And they WILL HAVE animal sacrifices, this time pointing BACK to the Savior who died for us. And it will be GOD's TEMPLE.

LAMAD

Lamad,
all that you just said in the most recent post is dependent on the futurist and literalist presupposition. There doesn't have to be any of that, especially given the confusion you've admitted is in it. It will be regrettable if it does happen because it just extends the disbelief and denial about what already came about in the Gospel (the new temple, the new Lamb of God, the new "living sacrifices"--Rom 12).

Lamad wrote:
What difference does any of this mean to a JEW that does not believe his or her Messiah has come yet?

You may have answered your own question there. You might ask Paul, then, what he meant by Messiah, because your question implies he is mistaken.