Obama to veto religious speech in milatary

InSpiritInTruth said:

Silly me, I forgot how the goverment promotes Christianity, righteous judgment and morals by leading the nation with their shining examples.

Click to expand...

You are completely lost if you think that the reason for the problems in our Churches are the fault of the government, who hasn't done a single thing to keep our ministers from preaching the Gospel with the power of God's Holy Spirit.

The government does nothing to keep parents from teaching the children the Gospel and from letting them love their children as Jesus loved the Church.

The government does not keep Christians from loving their others around them as Jesus called us to do.

You have lost it if you cannot see that the problem lies within us, and not the government.

Yarddog said:

You are completely lost if you think that the reason for the problems in our Churches are the fault of the government,

Click to expand...

The fault is in evil men who have not the Holy Spirit of God working in them, but the spirit of that Wicked who exalts himself, and his own ideas above Gods; who also opposes the Truth according to the word of God. That also includes many churches who teach for doctrines the commandments of men.

usexpat97 said:

Did you mean THESE people? Because that is the Body of Christ.

Click to expand...

Nobody who can't obey orders should be in the military.

InSpiritInTruth said:

Silly me, I forgot how the goverment promotes Christianity, righteous judgment and morals by leading the nation with their shining examples.

Click to expand...

Worldly government never has, worldly government never will--because it's a worldly government. It has to operate in the world, using the methods of the world, populated by mainly worldly people because "the Way is narrow and only few find it."

InSpiritInTruth said:

The fault is in evil men who have not the Holy Spirit of God working in them, but the spirit of that Wicked who exalts himself, and his own ideas above Gods; who also opposes the Truth according to the word of God. That also includes many churches who teach for doctrines the commandments of men.

Click to expand...

That will always be most men. The Church is always a minority in this world as long as it remains a peculiar people, uncut stones, never room temperature.

InSpiritInTruth said:

The fault is in evil men who have not the Holy Spirit of God working in them, but the spirit of that Wicked who exalts himself, and his own ideas above Gods; who also opposes the Truth according to the word of God. That also includes many churches who teach for doctrines the commandments of men.

Click to expand...

Then stop blaming the government for what is occurring in man. Creating a nation where people are free to worship may give them the freedom to turn away but it is man which chooses to turn away from God. Those same men have the freedom to embrace God in America.

RDKirk said:

Worldly government never has, worldly government never will--because it's a worldly government. It has to operate in the world, using the methods of the world, populated by mainly worldly people because "the Way is narrow and only few find it."

Click to expand...

That's right. And when one understands this spiritual division between the worldly (flesh) and the heavenly (Spirit) then you'll also understand why the governments, powers, and principalities, and peoples of this world will also persecute the true born again Christians.

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

It's just the way it is, and shall be, until the Lord destroys this wicked world system that Satan empowers.
http://www.christianforums.com/passage/?search=Galatians+4:28-30&version=KJV

Yarddog said:

Then stop blaming the government for what is occurring in man.

Click to expand...

I believe the Lord shows us differently, as they will also be held accountable for their policies and practices that cause people to err.

Isaiah 9:16
For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.
http://www.christianforums.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9:15-17&version=KJV

InSpiritInTruth said:

I believe the Lord shows us differently, as they will also be held accountable for their policies and practices that cause people to err.

Click to expand...

Romans 13:
1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher powers: for there is no power but of God; and the [powers] that be are ordained of God.
2 Therefore he that resisteth the power, withstandeth the ordinance of God: and they that withstand shall receive to themselves judgment.
3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldest thou have no fear of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same:
4 for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
6 For this cause ye pay tribute also; for they are ministers of God's service, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

There is nothing to fear in our government if we are doing good. Our government helps us to do good. It wants us to do good.

It is far from perfect because man is imperfect but there is nothing to fear that our government is doing anything to keep us from doing God's works but it is there to protect all if we or others seek to do evil to our fellow citizens.

Luke 4:5-8

King James Version (KJV)

5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

This present evil world has been given over to a cruel Prince, (as God also declared) which prince also empowers this whole beastly world system and it's goverments with his own spirit. (spirit of a lie) It is these powers and pricipalities that are under the control of that spiritual darkness, which also deceives the whole world.

We are told not to be a friend of this world, or partake of it's wicked ways. Because those who embrace its ways is also considered a friend of this world, and thereby is also an enemy of God.

InSpiritInTruth said:

This present evil world has been given over to a cruel Prince, (as God also declared) which prince also empowers this whole beastly world system and it's goverments with his own spirit. (spirit of a lie) It is these powers and pricipalities that are under the control of that spiritual darkness, which also deceives the whole world.

Click to expand...

Are you evil? Is your Church evil? By your opinion, everyone alive in the world is evil. This is not Biblical teaching. Evil does exist and the world is Satan's but that doesn't mean that all people and government are evil. That is not scriptural.

InSpiritInTruth said:

We are told not to be a friend of this world, or partake of it's wicked ways. Because those who embrace its ways is also considered a friend of this world, and thereby is also an enemy of God.

Click to expand...

Being a good Christian and obeying the laws of our country is not being a friend of the world. There are evil governments and governments which are not evil. Ours is not evil though some of our laws allow evil to exist.

We are called to be good citizens, as the scriptures which I have already provided command. That doesn't mean that we follow what the laws allow. We obey the New Command, to love everyone, including our enemy.

Many Christians fail to love and in doing so assist Satan's evil. Many people who call themselves Christian hate others and cause harm to them. We must take our stand against hate but do it with love.

Yarddog said:

By your opinion, everyone alive in the world is evil. This is not Biblical teaching. Evil does exist and the world is Satan's but that doesn't mean that all people and government are evil. That is not scriptural.

Click to expand...

Jesus said there is none that is good but God, is that scriptural?

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

John 7:7
The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Galatians 1:4
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

I don't confuse evil for good, and darkness for Light as some.

InSpiritInTruth said:

Jesus said there is none that is good but God, is that scriptural?

Click to expand...

Not being the good which Jesus spoke of does not make evil. Are you saying that you are evil and your Church is evil?

InSpiritInTruth said:

I don't confuse evil for good, and darkness for Light as some.

Click to expand...

Christians make our laws. Christians approve our laws. Christians vote for our representatives. Most of them are Christians, whether left or right. It seems that you do not see well enough to recognize your brothers and sisters in Christ. Maybe that is because you have been in the dark. Need some shades?

Personally I believe some people are looking at this world through rose colored glasses.

InSpiritInTruth said:

Personally I believe some people are looking at this world through rose colored glasses.

Click to expand...

On that we certainly agree.

I use my Jesus shades.

Yarddog said:

Are you evil? Is your Church evil? By your opinion, everyone alive in the world is evil. This is not Biblical teaching. Evil does exist and the world is Satan's but that doesn't mean that all people and government are evil. That is not scriptural.

Being a good Christian and obeying the laws of our country is not being a friend of the world. There are evil governments and governments which are not evil. Ours is not evil though some of our laws allow evil to exist.

We are called to be good citizens, as the scriptures which I have already provided command. That doesn't mean that we follow what the laws allow. We obey the New Command, to love everyone, including our enemy.

Many Christians fail to love and in doing so assist Satan's evil. Many people who call themselves Christian hate others and cause harm to them. We must take our stand against hate but do it with love.

Click to expand...

Actually, the world is "fallen". So we all have evil tendencies.

I disagree that our government is not evil. It has been evil since way back when, IMO, since the forming of the Federal Reserve. I would look for a video of Obama calling us "eaters" but it's probably been removed from the internet. So much has been removed since he has been in office. There is a video on YouTube of Obama giving a speech and making fun of the Bible. It's been chopped up so that it's really hard to see that he's doing that. The full video was once available. We have a government which assassinated a president during my lifetime and probably orchestrated the assassination of a president after the Civil War. Our government simply wants power. There's no concern for the people and their rights and their freedom. You can look at the Middle East and see that there is no reason for us to be there and yet the Democrat and Republican sides are all for it and are getting involved in a fourth or fifth country over there. They have successfully kept the two party system except those two parties are practically identical. Any candidate for a third party is doomed to lose. Why? Because people won't take sides and fight so much if there is a third party and the party itself can't be controlled. There are so many things that are being done behind our backs and people don't even try to see. Our government was not evil in the times of the founding fathers but we are not that country anymore. Satan has power now for a short time and he has infiltrated, not only governments but individuals. In the beginning of the U.S. we were protected by God, but I don't believe we are anymore. Even we who are saved are susceptible to evil and unless we stay close to the Lord and read His Word, Satan will put his foot in our doors.


I didn't see the verses which you posted. Did you post the one about Jesus telling the apostles to be wise as serpents and gentle as lambs? Or the one about not casting our pearls before swine? There are legalistic Christians but I don't personally believe that they can cause harm to others. If that happens then I don't think the ones harmed ever heard the call of the Holy Spirit. If they did they would know it is the person they should turn away from, not the teachings of the Word and they should read it for themselves instead of judging one person's "opinion".

Yarddog said:

Not being the good which Jesus spoke of does not make evil. Are you saying that you are evil and your Church is evil?


Christians make our laws. Christians approve our laws. Christians vote for our representatives. Most of them are Christians, whether left or right. It seems that you do not see well enough to recognize your brothers and sisters in Christ. Maybe that is because you have been in the dark. Need some shades?

Click to expand...

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask Him!" Matthew 7:11


"But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean'. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander..." Matthew 15:18-19

We can have fellowship with our brothers and sisters in Christ, but most Christians are broken people. Sometimes that is what brings us to Christ. We should never assume that our brothers and sisters are not troubled in any way and I would not want them to assume that my life is perfect before the Lord. That would put way too much pressure on me as I am no more than "filthy rags" on my best day.


Obviously, our faith, unfortunately, often does not persuade us concerning politics. I myself, was for the war in Iraq (stupid). Many of our young men died for nothing. Many who call themselves Christian voted for Obama who killed the Born Alive Infant Protection Act in the Illinois Senate and strongly supports Planned Parenthood (started by Margaret Sanger with the hope of oneday decreasing the black population) (stupid). So when you say that Christians vote for laws, vote for our representatives, etc., it doesn't mean that we vote any better than non-Christians.

We are to obey the laws written by man as long as they don't contradict the laws of God. The only exception to that would be, IMO, killing in war because God sent men to war. We should never show allegiance to our government over our God. And I believe that very soon, we will be faced with that decision.

Psalm 91 said:

Actually, the world is "fallen".

Click to expand...

Yep, but that doesn't answer the premise which he put forth.

Psalm 91 said:

So we all have evil tendencies.

Click to expand...

Yes again.

Psalm 91 said:

I disagree that our government is not evil.

Click to expand...

Governments are not evil, the people in charge may be evil or have evil tendencies, as you point out earlier.

Psalm 91 said:

There is a video on YouTube of Obama giving a speech and making fun of the Bible. It's been chopped up so that it's really hard to see that he's doing that.

Click to expand...

No video has ever existed of Obama making fun of the Bible. Right wingers have edited a video to make it appear as if he did. When the video is looked at, in context, it shows that he is using the OT to make a point.

Psalm 91 said:

We have a government which assassinated a president during my lifetime and probably orchestrated the assassination of a president after the Civil War.

Click to expand...

On the 1st accusation, don't tell me that you actually believe that and the 2nd, some officials may have been involved in Lincoln's but that is not "the government".

Yarddog said:

Yep, but that doesn't answer the premise which he put forth.

Yes again.

Governments are not evil, the people in charge may be evil or have evil tendencies, as you point out earlier.

No video has ever existed of Obama making fun of the Bible. Right wingers have edited a video to make it appear as if he did. When the video is looked at, in context, it shows that he is using the OT to make a point.

On the 1st accusation, don't tell me that you actually believe that and the 2nd, some officials may have been involved in Lincoln's but that is not "the government".

Click to expand...

Sorry, I saw the entire video, which I could no longer find when I tried. It's gone. And what was his point? to make God look stupid?? That is what he was doing. Don't argue with me about this. I have seen it in it's entirety and have argued with Obama supporters who can't see the forest for the trees and you will not change my mind. I know what I saw and heard. And God help those in the audience who laughed during his dispicable words.

Why was the full length video removed and the chopped up version uploaded? (Is that what the word is? uploaded?)

As for your last comment, I saw the autopsy pictures and I'm a nurse and the exit wound is always larger than the entrance wound. JFK was shot in the front of the neck and the right back of his head was blown off. Therefore, there is no way that Oswald could have killed him. He was behind the motorcade. The doctors in Dallas said there were no wounds in his back at the time when he was treated in the Emergency Room and then pronounced dead. But My Oh My! There was a small bullet hole in his right shoulder when he arrived in Bethesda. I guess some CIA or FBI agents needed some target practice. People were so naive in those days and now the government controls everything. No one questioned Oswald's murder though it's obvious that a member of the Mafia was allowed into the hallway they brought him through and parading him in front of the cameras was irresponsible. But it was all planned, you see. That's why part of JFK's skull and brain went missing. How gullible we are.


How do you know that the government was not involved with Lincoln's death? You refuse to even study the Kennedy assassination with all of it's inconsistencies.

Yarddog said:

Yep, but that doesn't answer the premise which he put forth.

Yes again.

Governments are not evil, the people in charge may be evil or have evil tendencies, as you point out earlier.

No video has ever existed of Obama making fun of the Bible. Right wingers have edited a video to make it appear as if he did. When the video is looked at, in context, it shows that he is using the OT to make a point.

On the 1st accusation, don't tell me that you actually believe that and the 2nd, some officials may have been involved in Lincoln's but that is not "the government".

Click to expand...

He also quoted part of the Sermon on the Mount but maybe the chopped up version doesn't have that part. And I beg to differ with you. I saw the chopped version and it tried to remove the blatant disrespect the speech showed. They probably realized that it completely contradicted his claim to be a Christian.