What do you lose by not being Orthodox?

cloudyday2 · Aug 13, 2012

I was a member of the local Orthodox church for a couple of years until I quit going a year ago. If my choice of church is only a matter of personal taste, then I don't want to go to an Orthodox church. If God doesn't care I would rather not go to any church at all or at least find a church that I like.

I have heard a couple of priests claim that only the Orthodox Church has the grace for communion.

Just looking for ideas on this issue.

Dorothea · Aug 13, 2012

Well, technically, you lose not being part of the Body of Christ. You lose having the tools needed to be transformed and become in union with God. Thus, through these, salvation.

So, that's the basic info that comes to mind. Does this mean that those who aren't in the Church aren't saved? I don't think we'd say that. Only God knows and saves who He saves. But He gave us the Church, and so why not be part of it?

Anyhow, welcome to TAW. :wave:

InnerPhyre · Aug 13, 2012

You lose the sacred Mysteries which God gave us for our salvation, most especially Holy Communion. Orthodoxy is the bright lamp that illuminates the narrow path to salvation.

Crawdad · Aug 13, 2012

You lose baklava.

InnerPhyre · Aug 13, 2012

Crawdad said:
You lose baklava.

Perhaps the worst of all!

Soderquj · Aug 13, 2012

Orthodox do not theologize outside the church. Orthodox have very detailed theology about what it means to be Orthodox, we have no theology what it means to not be Orthodox. God has not told us the spiritual status of the non-Orthodox. We are only given the Way/Life in Jesus Christ. Orthodoxy represents the fullness of Gods truth. Therefore the sacraments are present in the Orthodox Church, which allows theosis (The Way).

A Priest once said, we go to heaven together, to hell alone. As it was explained to me if we are together in the Orthodox Church we have the truth, If we change what we believe (self interpretation, change the sacraments and our own self will) we will end up with different results, no theosis.

Hope this makes sense.

cloudyday2 · Aug 13, 2012

Dorothea said:
Well, technically, you lose not being part of the Body of Christ. You lose having the tools needed to be transformed and become in union with God. Thus, through these, salvation.

So, that's the basic info that comes to mind. Does this mean that those who aren't in the Church aren't saved? I don't think we'd say that. Only God knows and saves who He saves. But He gave us the Church, and so why not be part of it?

Anyhow, welcome to TAW.

Thanks for the welcome. I guess I don't buy your answer though.

cloudyday2 · Aug 13, 2012

Soderquj said:
Orthodox do not theologize outside the church. Orthodox have very detailed theology about what it means to be Orthodox, we have no theology what it means to not be Orthodox. God has not told us the spiritual status of the non-Orthodox. We are only given the Way/Life in Jesus Christ. Orthodoxy represents the fullness of Gods truth. Therefore the sacraments are present in the Orthodox Church, which allows theosis (The Way).

A Priest once said, we go to heaven together, to hell alone. As it was explained to me if we are together in the Orthodox Church we have the truth, If we change what we believe (self interpretation, change the sacraments and our own self will) we will end up with different results, no theosis.

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks. Here is a question. You say Orthodox say nothing about what happens outside the Orthodox Church. What is the Orthodox Church? There is a disagreement over something and a split, so which side is now the Orthodox Church?

For me it is about experimental results. I tried the experiment for a couple of years and I didn't feel any theosis happening. Do I keep doing the same thing or do I try something else? (Sorry to sound so negative. I really didn't like going to the Orthodox church. I know most people reading this probably feel differently. In fairness I don't like going to any kind of church that I've attended.)

lawndartboy · Aug 13, 2012

cloudyday2 said:
Thanks. Here is a question. You say Orthodox say nothing about what happens outside the Orthodox Church. What is the Orthodox Church? There is a disagreement over something and a split, so which side is now the Orthodox Church?

For me it is about experimental results. I tried the experiment for a couple of years and I didn't feel any theosis happening. Do I keep doing the same thing or do I try something else? (Sorry to sound so negative. I really didn't like going to the Orthodox church. I know most people reading this probably feel differently. In fairness I don't like going to any kind of church that I've attended.)

Forgive me for being forward but being an Orthodox christian is not about appealing to our tastes or finding the church that "fits" me best, it is about dieing to ourselves and through the process of submitting our selfishness and will to the church we become one with God. I dont think you are aware of how deluded you are without Gods grace in and through his church ( I would like to note here that I am also deluded and need the community to keep me in check as well!) and one of the hard things about christianity is that true progress spiritually is hard to percieve, it usually takes years and years in retrospect and not even usually by oneself to see this progress. If you love Jesus Christ, come back to the church in which he established for us so that you can learn to love him more fully!

Dorothea · Aug 13, 2012

cloudyday2 said:
Thanks. Here is a question. You say Orthodox say nothing about what happens outside the Orthodox Church. What is the Orthodox Church? There is a disagreement over something and a split, so which side is now the Orthodox Church?

For me it is about experimental results. I tried the experiment for a couple of years and I didn't feel any theosis happening. Do I keep doing the same thing or do I try something else? (Sorry to sound so negative. I really didn't like going to the Orthodox church. I know most people reading this probably feel differently. In fairness I don't like going to any kind of church that I've attended.)

Theosis doesn't happen overnight. It takes your whole life. Those who endure to the end are saved. That's what it means to pick up your cross and follow Him.

Soderquj · Aug 13, 2012

cloudyday2 said:
Thanks. Here is a question. You say Orthodox say nothing about what happens outside the Orthodox Church. What is the Orthodox Church? There is a disagreement over something and a split, so which side is now the Orthodox?

The Orthodox church is the church that follows the doctrine of Jesus Christ passed down by the Appostles clarified by the ecumenical councils. You can know which is the Orthodox church by tracing the dogma and theology all the way back, through the councils, to the Appostles, to Christ. (sorry for the simple response but that is the best without going into a lot of dogma/theology)

On a side note the Orthodox church may not be for everyone as it takes a lot of effort and a change of mind and heart. I pray you do find something that will give you the connection to Christ I fell you are looking for.

ArmyMatt · Aug 13, 2012

cloudyday2 said:
Thanks. Here is a question. You say Orthodox say nothing about what happens outside the Orthodox Church. What is the Orthodox Church? There is a disagreement over something and a split, so which side is now the Orthodox Church?

For me it is about experimental results. I tried the experiment for a couple of years and I didn't feel any theosis happening. Do I keep doing the same thing or do I try something else? (Sorry to sound so negative. I really didn't like going to the Orthodox church. I know most people reading this probably feel differently. In fairness I don't like going to any kind of church that I've attended.)

for starters, welcome to TAW!

the Orthodox one is the one that is consistant with the teaching from the time of the Apostles to this day, the Church that the gates of hades did not prevail over.

for your second point, if theosis is becoming like God, you cannot personally conduct experiments. that's not how theosis works. that would be like using a ruler to measure how loud sound is.

and, it doesn't matter what any of us like. it matters what Christ give and why He gave it. who am I to question Christ?

cloudyday2 · Aug 13, 2012

lawndartboy said:
Forgive me for being forward but being an Orthodox christian is not about appealing to our tastes or finding the church that "fits" me best, it is about dieing to ourselves and through the process of submitting our selfishness and will to the church we become one with God. I dont think you are aware of how deluded you are without Gods grace in and through his church ( I would like to note here that I am also deluded and need the community to keep me in check as well!) and one of the hard things about christianity is that true progress spiritually is hard to percieve, it usually takes years and years in retrospect and not even usually by oneself to see this progress. If you love Jesus Christ, come back to the church in which he established for us so that you can learn to love him more fully!

Thanks. Mainly I'm trying to do whatever God wants. I would rather do my own thing. I don't care about theosis or going to heaven, but I think Jesus loves me more than I deserve so that makes me ashamed of myself and feel I've got to try to do better. Eventually I suppose I might need to start attending church somewhere again. I hated going to that Orthodox church, so I was hoping to reassure myself about leaving it.

cloudyday2 · Aug 13, 2012

lawndartboy said:
Forgive me for being forward but being an Orthodox christian is not about appealing to our tastes or finding the church that "fits" me best, it is about dieing to ourselves and through the process of submitting our selfishness and will to the church we become one with God. I dont think you are aware of how deluded you are without Gods grace in and through his church ( I would like to note here that I am also deluded and need the community to keep me in check as well!) and one of the hard things about christianity is that true progress spiritually is hard to percieve, it usually takes years and years in retrospect and not even usually by oneself to see this progress. If you love Jesus Christ, come back to the church in which he established for us so that you can learn to love him more fully!

Thanks. Mainly I'm trying to do whatever God wants. I would rather do my own thing. I don't care about theosis or going to heaven, but I think Jesus loves me more than I deserve so that makes me ashamed of myself and feel I've got to try to do better. Eventually I suppose I might need to start attending church somewhere again. I hated going to that Orthodox church, so I was hoping to reassure myself that other churches are o.k. too. I think they must be.

ArmyMatt · Aug 13, 2012

that's the problem though, since we are fallen, doing our own thing always comes into conflict with what God wants. if He didn't want you in Church, He would not have established one.

Soderquj · Aug 13, 2012

It needs to start with humility and a contrite heart, then you are open to gods will. If its about me and my wants, needs, and desires that only leads to delusion and destruction. The father of "me first" is Satan!

Dorothea · Aug 13, 2012

God's guidance to you, cloudy.

Blackwater Babe · Aug 13, 2012

What do you lose by not being Orthodox?

Funny hats in church?

cloudyday2 · Aug 13, 2012

Dorothea said:
God's guidance to you, cloudy.

Thanks!

L0NEW0LF · Aug 13, 2012

Blackwater Babe said:
Funny hats in church?

Smells a little like grape JELLY in here

What do you lose by not being Orthodox?

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