Why Social Justice is Marxism, and Why it Applies to Your Marriage.

I Art Laughing · Jun 6, 2012

Athene said:
You're excited by the thought of bad things happening, and billions of people suffering? I really have no words for that. If you believe the world is really going to end imminently then you should despair, you should despair at the suffering that will soon fill the world. It wouldn't be like Left Behind you know, where people lost their kids and loved ones and then just carried on as normal going to work and shopping. People would panic, riot on the streets, civil order would break down, murder and violence would be everywhere. The strongest would grab the resources and the elderly, the disabled would starve or freeze to death. Thinking about this excites you? Is that because you'll be ok tucked away with your gold reserves, your guns and your bottled water?

Lusting after the misfortune of others is immoral, there is no other way around that. If your way of being a Christian has led you to a situation where you think only of yourself and your own salvation and welfare, and not for the people around you then may I humbly suggest you've took a wrong turn somewhere.

Is God in control or not? That seems to be the fundamental issue. I believe He is. I believe because we are operating under the curse and doing things the way we see fit we are causing the perpetual suffering of billions of people rather than acknowledging God as God. I'm not a dispensationalist, I don't see a Rapture in the Bible so you're barking up the wrong tree there. The strongest already has the resources, he is the Prince of the Power of the Air and he wants to kill the heir and claim His inheritance, but he will not succeed.

That is a pretty wild assertion that I am lusting after the misfortune of others, what I want is for God's righteousness to be manifest, for His kingdom to come and for an end to this screwed up goat rope that liberals think is hunky dory. That will probably mean a few million less babies aborted every year, millions of children no longer being molested, neglected, abused and converted into even worse monsters than whatever raised them and an end to countless other travesties. What I find disgusting is a satisfaction with maintaining the status quo. I suspect that if righteousness were important to you at all you might agree, but it appears based on your argumentation that it is merely a garnish to the social welfare program that you seem to think the Gospel is.

And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it? Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
(Joe 2:11-14)

I think that some think that performing acts of philanthropy replaces God's call to righteousness, that we should have no expectation of holiness on the part of God and that He cannot judge us and remain a just and loving God. There is an end, He will judge and it will be good, everything He does is as He is the very definition. It seems like you don't trust God to do what is right.

Tamara224 · Jun 6, 2012

I Art Laughing said:
So you've attained sinless perfection? God chastens EVERY son He receives.

Do you punish your kids when they haven't done anything wrong?

Why would God?

BigDaddy4 · Jun 6, 2012

I Art Laughing said:
Is God in control or not? That seems to be the fundamental issue. I believe He is. I believe because we are operating under the curse and doing things the way we see fit we are causing the perpetual suffering of billions of people rather than acknowledging God as God. I'm not a dispensationalist, I don't see a Rapture in the Bible so you're barking up the wrong tree there. The strongest already has the resources, he is the Prince of the Power of the Air and he wants to kill the heir and claim His inheritance, but he will not succeed.

...

Then theologically, we are worlds apart. I don't think you can back that up in light of what Scripture plainly says.

Since I will not engage in a theology debate on the Married Forums, I will exit this conversation.

One final request before I leave, please tone down the hyperbole. It makes for better conversation.

Ciao...

BigDaddy4 · Jun 6, 2012

mkgal1 said:
The Lucifer Effect by Philip Zimbardo

Interesting. Thanks mk!

I think the term "social justice" is very vague and can be misconstrued. From what I read in the Bible, I see the responsibility of helping others to be on each individual follower of Christ.

However, I am undecided as to what exactly a governments role is in "social justice" or even how to define what "social justice" should look like in that capacity. I see that people need help, but I also see people who take advantage of "the system".

Romanseight2005 · Jun 6, 2012

So IAL are you saying that you don't believe that any rapture of the church is a biblical concept? I know many think the rapture will happen before the great tribulation period, many think it will happen in the middle of it, and still others think it will happen at the end of the Great Tribulation. I personally believe that it could happen at any one of these times, and will not make it a doctrinal necessity. I can honestly say though, that I have not heard of a no rapture stance.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 6, 2012

Romanseight2005 said:
So IAL are you saying that you don't believe that any rapture of the church is a biblical concept? I know many think the rapture will happen before the great tribulation period, many think it will happen in the middle of it, and still others think it will happen at the end of the Great Tribulation. I personally believe that it could happen at any one of these times, and will not make it a doctrinal necessity. I can honestly say though, that I have not heard of a no rapture stance.

You should venture out on the "Unorthodox Theology" or "General Theology" forums and poke around (Can't remember which one at the moment and they reorganized the whole UT forum a while ago). There have been some threads with people who have a "no rapture" view. Not many, but there is that thought out there.

Regardless of whether you are a pre-, mid-, or post-Trib, the majority of Christians recognize that there will be one.

But that is a debate for another time, another thread, and probably another forum...

mkgal1 · Jun 6, 2012

BigDaddy4 said:
Interesting. Thanks mk!

I think the term "social justice" is very vague and can be misconstrued. From what I read in the Bible, I see the responsibility of helping others to be on each individual follower of Christ.

However, I am undecided as to what exactly a governments role is in "social justice" or even how to define what "social justice" should look like in that capacity. I see that people need help, but I also see people who take advantage of "the system".

You are welcome. There is a lot of interesting information there.

I'm with you on being undecided about just how involved our government should be in the caring for these needs. From what I understand, when our country began, it was churches that cared for the orphans, the disabled, the unemployed, and the elderly. As ROJ has pointed out, Catholic Charities is doing a lot to help....but, with a group of Christians getting it in their head that caring for these needs equates with Marxism....coupled with a common attitude of "every man for himself".....I am not sure if it's even possible to rely on the church solely.

WalksWithChrist · Jun 6, 2012

BigDaddy4 said:
Interesting. Thanks mk!

I think the term "social justice" is very vague and can be misconstrued. From what I read in the Bible, I see the responsibility of helping others to be on each individual follower of Christ.

However, I am undecided as to what exactly a governments role is in "social justice" or even how to define what "social justice" should look like in that capacity. I see that people need help, but I also see people who take advantage of "the system".

This is more or less what I was saying the other day.

Social justice is a catchphrase now. It gets tossed around quite a lot and I doubt people know its origins.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 6, 2012

mkgal1 said:
You are welcome. There is a lot of interesting information there.

I'm with you on being undecided about just how involved our government should be in the caring for these needs. From what I understand, when our country began, it was churches that cared for the orphans, the disabled, the unemployed, and the elderly. As ROJ has pointed out, Catholic Charities is doing a lot to help....but, with a group of Christians getting it in their head that caring for these needs equates with Marxism....coupled with a common attitude of "every man for himself".....I am not sure if it's even possible to rely on the church solely.

I think churches who follow Christ (not all do) will probably have some sort of "social justice" type programs where they focus on the underpriviledged. However, you can't always tell which ones are good and which are not.

I believe our government oversteps its bounds to appease the masses, but I wouldn't label it as Marxism. To me, that's a stretch.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 6, 2012

For kicks, I went back an re-read the OP. I'm not getting where the post fits the title. I don't see where the "...Why It Applies to Your Marriage" is addressed.

I Art Laughing · Jun 6, 2012

Tamara224 said:
Do you punish your kids when they haven't done anything wrong?

Why would God?

Chastening isn't the same thing as punishing, and what you just did was not answer. Are you saying you know somebody with flesh and blood that isn't doing anything wrong, at all?

I Art Laughing · Jun 6, 2012

BigDaddy4 said:
Regardless of whether you are a pre-, mid-, or post-Trib, the majority of Christians recognize that there will be one. quote]

I think what you meant to say is that many people believe there will be one. I think the personal Jesus will save me from all correction and harm is wildly misguided and is a reason why this social justice, God is love and would never chasten His children nonsense has taken such a deep root.

Oh well. More signs of the times, apostasy and deception.

I Art Laughing · Jun 6, 2012

BigDaddy4 said:
For kicks, I went back an re-read the OP. I'm not getting where the post fits the title. I don't see where the "...Why It Applies to Your Marriage" is addressed.

I didn't see you ask the same question about why a thread about nuns applies to marriage either, points for consistancy. One element of "social justice" is feminism and another is Marxism, when the two conjoin you end up with quite the humanist stew. Chances are if you are married, a Christian and are finding yourself in a divorce that somewhere feminism had a role in it, just my opinion.

Romanseight2005 · Jun 6, 2012

I Art Laughing said:
Chastening isn't the same thing as punishing, and what you just did was not answer. Are you saying you know somebody with flesh and blood that isn't doing anything wrong, at all?

According to the Dictionary.com Thesaurus, chastening and punishment are synonyms.

Main Entry: punishment  [puhn-ish-muhnt] Show IPA
Part of Speech: noun Definition: penalty Synonyms: abuse, amercement, beating, castigation, chastening, chastisement, comeuppance, confiscation, correction, deprivation, disciplinary action, discipline, forfeit, forfeiture, gallows, hard work, infliction, just desserts, lumps, maltreatment, mortification, mulct, ostracism, pain, penance, proof, punitive measures, purgatory, reparation, retribution, rod, rough treatment, sanction, sequestration, short shrift, slave labor, suffering, torture, trial, unhappiness, victimization, what for

I Art Laughing · Jun 6, 2012

Romanseight2005 said:
According to the Dictionary.com Thesaurus, chastening and punishment are synonyms.

Main Entry: punishment  [puhn-ish-muhnt] Show IPA
Part of Speech: noun Definition: penalty Synonyms: abuse, amercement, beating, castigation, chastening, chastisement, comeuppance, confiscation, correction, deprivation, disciplinary action, discipline, forfeit, forfeiture, gallows, hard work, infliction, just desserts, lumps, maltreatment, mortification, mulct, ostracism, pain, penance, proof, punitive measures, purgatory, reparation, retribution, rod, rough treatment, sanction, sequestration, short shrift, slave labor, suffering, torture, trial, unhappiness, victimization, what for

Are you suggesting that God tortures us? That is listed as well.

Romanseight2005 · Jun 6, 2012

I am saying that chastening and punishing are quite similar. One could punish without the possibility of teaching or training with it, which might be akin to torture, (That would be extreme punishment) but one could also use punishment as a form as discipline, which is why chastening is on there. So yeah, they all tie together.

Again to the original point of my post though, is that interchanging punish and chasten can be appropriate, depending on the context.

Hammster · Jun 6, 2012

MOD HAT ON

This thread has drifted wasaayyy off topic from the OP. Closing for review.

MOD HAT OFF

Hammster · Jun 8, 2012

MOD HAT ON

After review, this thread is being reopened. Sorry for the interruption.

MOD HAT OFF

mkgal1 · Jun 8, 2012

BigDaddy4 said:
For kicks, I went back an re-read the OP. I'm not getting where the post fits the title. I don't see where the "...Why It Applies to Your Marriage" is addressed.

I Art Laughing said:
I didn't see you ask the same question about why a thread about nuns applies to marriage either, points for consistancy. One element of "social justice" is feminism and another is Marxism, when the two conjoin you end up with quite the humanist stew. Chances are if you are married, a Christian and are finding yourself in a divorce that somewhere feminism had a role in it, just my opinion.

I had been wondering the same thing, because of the title.....this thread was framed that way & not all are.

That's quite a leap of logic that if one is finding them self in a divorce that somewhere feminism had a role in it....UNLESS, we are back to rights again. It seems that what you are saying is that women need to check any and all rights at the door of the chapel before they get married......am I reading correctly? Because if BOTH spouses are forgoing their rights in favor of serving the other spouse, I hardly believe that would cause divorce.

I Art Laughing · Jun 8, 2012

mkgal1 said:
I had been wondering the same thing, because of the title.....this thread was framed that way & not all are.

That's quite a leap of logic that if one is finding them self in a divorce that somewhere feminism had a role in it....UNLESS, we are back to rights again. It seems that what you are saying is that women need to check any and all rights at the door of the chapel before they get married......am I reading correctly? Because if BOTH spouses are forgoing their rights in favor of serving the other spouse, I hardly believe that would cause divorce.

When have you seen a feminist check their "rights" anywhere? That would be a retreat, an abandonment of principle, a blow to the movement, that is why I think that it is antithetical to the Gospel. Jesus called his followers to self-sacrifice, on the other hand many feminists as I have demonstrated are unwilling to even ever concede a single point. How does that work in marriage? My way or the highway?

I'm not going to posit the leading cause of divorce in "Christian" marriages but I would wager it either is or is closely related to "irreconcilable" differences. How does that happen with two who are ostensibly members of the body of Christ? We're going to spend eternity together, how irreconcilable are those differences, really? I think that faith would require that any and all differences are reconcilable in Christ. Suggesting otherwise is a lack of faith (IMO).

I see humanism, Marxism as the setting of false standards ahead of God's standards. I see humanistic based ideologies, Marxism, "social justice", feminism as an impostion of our version of justice over what the Bible says it (from a right to happiness, to free health care/abortions, fulfillment, and/or housing). When we get in the habit of doing that we start developing "rights" based on our own vain imaginations instead of what God says they are. What "rights" did Jesus have? How many did He give up? What has He called for his followers to do?

Why Social Justice is Marxism, and Why it Applies to Your Marriage.

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