Why is Hell permanent?

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he-man

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The eternal fire is not referring to the physical destruction of Sodom. Obviously it is referring to something else. Something later.
:doh:Huh, like what?
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with destruction, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Luk 17:29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed
all.

Num 26:10 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, what time the fire devoured two hundred and fifty men: and they became a sign.
 
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dollarsbill

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Huh, like what?
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with destruction, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Luk 17:29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed all.

Num 26:10 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, what time the fire devoured two hundred and fifty men: and they became a sign.
Like the eternal fire. Their bodies were destroyed. They weren't.

Jude 1:7 (NASB)
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
 
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he-man

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Like the eternal fire. Their bodies were destroyed.
Jude 1:7 (NASB)
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
:doh::o
 
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dollarsbill

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It's not really that difficult to figure out. Sodom was destroyed, physically. The fire went out. So that couldn't have been the ETERNAL fire. It came later. Unless you are saying the Scripture is wrong and there is no "eternal fire" that Jesus spoke of.

Jude 1:7 (NASB)
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
 
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Stealth001

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I didn't say that you are the only person wrong about eternal punishment. Our English Bibles are quite clear and consistent. Eternal punishment is indeed eternal, NEVER ending.

This is an assumption. The same Greek term is used in the Septuagent for the covenant of circumcision:
Genesis 17:13
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Paul clearly illustrates how this was fulfilled in Jesus Christ in Galatians and is no longer applicable.

Also, the functioning of the Levitical priesthood was to be "everlasting":
Leviticus 16:34 (KJV)


34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

And what about Jonah's prayer?
Jonah 2:1-6

English Standard Version (ESV)

Jonah's Prayer

2 Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the belly of the fish, 2 saying,
“I called out to the Lord, out of my distress,
and he answered me;
out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
and you heard my voice.
3 For you cast me into the deep,
into the heart of the seas,
and the flood surrounded me;
all your waves and your billows
passed over me.
4 Then I said, ‘I am driven away
from your sight;
yet I shall again look
upon your holy temple.’
5 The waters closed in over me to take my life;
the deep surrounded me;
weeds were wrapped about my head
6 at the roots of the mountains.
I went down to the land
whose bars closed upon me forever;
yet you brought up my life from the pit,
O Lord my God.


I don't know about your Bible... but my Bible states that Jonah was in the belly of a whale for 3 days and three nights.

The point is... the term is often a figure of speech, a euphanism denoting an indefinite or extensively long period of time. Just like we might say that we, "Stood in line forever."

The term is also used to denote the nature of a thing as opposed to duration. The "everlasting covenats" or "eternal covenants" were everlasting or eternal in that they were provided by God... yet they came to an end in Christ's fulfillment of them.

Therefore, "eternal punishement" can be interpreted as being a form of punishment that is "eternal" in nature... and not duration.

We see that "everlasting" doesn't always mean "forever" in several verses. Consider Habakkuk 3:6
Habakkuk 3:6

King James Version (KJV)

6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.


Are the mountains "everlasting" in the sense of lasting forever??? No. The very same verse describes their destruction. Then God's attribute of "everlasting" is assailed above the temporal interpretation of "everlasting".

So... one can believe that God will torture countless numbers of souls FOREVER in a fiery torture chamber if such a horror motivates them to love Him (or else)... or... one can believe that Hell serves a greater purpose in God's plan of redemption. Yes, Hell's flame is "eternal" in nature. But that doesn't mean that a soul's stay there must be forever in duration. Regardless of what one might say about Hell, there is one thing we can be assured of. One day EVERY KNEE shall bow and EVERY TONGUE shall confess that Jesus is Lord... to the GLORY of God the Father:
Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Is God "glorified" in torture? Or is God "glorified" in the reconciliation of the lost soul unto salvation?
 
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Stealth001

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It's not really that difficult to figure out. Sodom was destroyed, physically. The fire went out. So that couldn't have been the ETERNAL fire. It came later. Unless you are saying the Scripture is wrong and there is no "eternal fire" that Jesus spoke of.

Jude 1:7 (NASB)
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

The fire was eternal with regards to it's nature, purpose, and origin... not with regards to it's duration.

Also please note... Sodom shall be restored:

Ezekiel 16:55
When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

What a gracious, just, and fearsome God we serve!
 
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dollarsbill

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This is an assumption.
No assumption whatsoever.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 
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he-man

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No assumption whatsoever.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
:doh:
Rev 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
 
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dollarsbill

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:doh:
Rev 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
None of which cancels FOREVER or ETERNAL.
 
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Timothew

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I'm sorry but death according to you = cease to exist therefore you only get ONE death.
I'm sorry, but I believe in Christ and there is a resurrection from death on the last day and THEN the second death, or eternal life for those who are in Christ.

I never said what you think I said.
 
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Sophrosyne

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I'm sorry, but I believe in Christ and there is a resurrection from death on the last day and THEN the second death, or eternal life for those who are in Christ.

I never said what you think I said.
I'm sorry but you say over and over to prove your doctrine death = cease to exist.... either it does IN ALL CASES or it does NOT you cannot have it your way whenever it suits you.
 
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Sadalmelik

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I'm sorry but you say over and over to prove your doctrine death = cease to exist.... either it does IN ALL CASES or it does NOT you cannot have it your way whenever it suits you.


actually what timothew is saying is exactly what it says in the bible, if you have a problem with dying twice, you should take it up with God, not him. your statement above, is again, you interjecting your own opiinion, and making your own rules, sorry, God is the one that made the rules, we just live by them. the unsaved will die a physical death (mortal...of earth) death, and then, when God sees fit, He will raise the dead from their graves to judge them, some to everlasting life, some to death. (which death is everlasting), so if youd like to say to everlasting death, fine.


and btw, it doesnt necessarily suit us, that is irrelevant, its what the bible actually says, were just choosing to read the bible as it was written, and not taking someone elses word for what it says, or interjecting our own thoughts and ideas into the bible, so that it conforms to what are preconceived notions are.
 
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Sophrosyne

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actually what timothew is saying is exactly what it says in the bible, if you have a problem with dying twice, you should take it up with God, not him. your statement above, is again, you interjecting your own opiinion, and making your own rules, sorry, God is the one that made the rules, we just live by them. the unsaved will die a physical death (mortal...of earth) death, and then, when God sees fit, He will raise the dead from their graves to judge them, some to everlasting life, some to death. (which death is everlasting), so if youd like to say to everlasting death, fine.


and btw, it doesnt necessarily suit us, that is irrelevant, its what the bible actually says, were just choosing to read the bible as it was written, and not taking someone elses word for what it says, or interjecting our own thoughts and ideas into the bible, so that it conforms to what are preconceived notions are.
One cannot "cease to exist" twice, one arguing that death = cease to exist either has to withdraw such argument or allow other types of death to exist that do not have a problem with ceasing to exist.
 
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