Christmas and the Jew

simchat_torah

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A lot of us have Christian families/friends. Most who post on this subforum are Americans (no offense to the minority who are posting from elsewhere). My point is, we hear in the media that there is a "War on Christmas". I find this funny, because if there is a war then Christmas is winning handily. Everywhere I turn, every store, every city, every radio station... it's Christmas Christmas Christmas.

To the meat of this post...
How do you respond to your families? My wife and I have been Jewish for some time now, yet our families still send us Christmas gifts. We have a wee little one on the way, and I have no problem explaining to the lil guy when he's of an age that he'll understand that "Our family is simply different than us." He will see the contrast as we celebrate Channukah and our families/friends celebrate Christmas. To the Jews who don't have Christian families, I think it's easier. To them, it's simply the outside world. But to those of us who have Christian family, it makes it a bit more difficult as most families just don't get it. They still inundate us with Christmas cheer and gifts. There's really no escaping it entirely.

How do you react?

Not a debate thread, just curious how you deal with this as a family.

thanks,
simchat_torah
 

GuardianShua

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A lot of us have Christian families/friends. Most who post on this subforum are Americans (no offense to the minority who are posting from elsewhere). My point is, we hear in the media that there is a "War on Christmas". I find this funny, because if there is a war then Christmas is winning handily. Everywhere I turn, every store, every city, every radio station... it's Christmas Christmas Christmas.

To the meat of this post...
How do you respond to your families? My wife and I have been Jewish for some time now, yet our families still send us Christmas gifts. We have a wee little one on the way, and I have no problem explaining to the lil guy when he's of an age that he'll understand that "Our family is simply different than us." He will see the contrast as we celebrate Channukah and our families/friends celebrate Christmas. To the Jews who don't have Christian families, I think it's easier. To them, it's simply the outside world. But to those of us who have Christian family, it makes it a bit more difficult as most families just don't get it. They still inundate us with Christmas cheer and gifts. There's really no escaping it entirely.

How do you react?

Not a debate thread, just curious how you deal with this as a family.

thanks,
simchat_torah

I do not celebrate Christmas or Channukah. Neither are approved by God or prophet. Most importantly is to not overreact.
 
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JRSut1000

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I celebrate Chanukkah since it's a miracle and Y'shua observed it too, but its not mandatory or anything.

But as far as Christmas, yeah it's hard. I get told often enough by my own family that we're ridiculous for not celebrating it and they try to convince me back to how its always been when I was under their roof. But I'm not under their roof and my husband and I have chosen that Christmas is not for our household. They wont argue with my husband, juts me cuz somehow they think they can get me to go back to my old beliefs. They dont respect what I believe, they always try to change me.
 
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yedida

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There are only a few people here, Simchat, that are Jewish born and of those only a very few Jewish born and raised.
Most are gentiles who have taken on Messianic Judaism.
I stopped celebrating Christmas long before I walked away from traditional Christianity.
Then I walked away from Christianity and this day was just a day.
Now in Messianic Judaism, I don't celebrate Christmas with a tree, lights or gifts, but I love the music, the sentiment so the evening and the day are a bit more. I also pick a Shabbat during Sukkot and feel the same way (and listen to the same Christmas songs). That's kinda cool.
As far as celebrations go, I celebrate Chanukah. But I always think it's really cool when Christmas day falls within the Chanukah week.
 
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GuardianShua

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I celebrate Chanukkah since it's a miracle and Y'shua observed it too, but its not mandatory or anything.

But as far as Christmas, yeah it's hard. I get told often enough by my own family that we're ridiculous for not celebrating it and they try to convince me back to how its always been when I was under their roof. But I'm not under their roof and my husband and I have chosen that Christmas is not for our household. They wont argue with my husband, juts me cuz somehow they think they can get me to go back to my old beliefs. They dont respect what I believe, they always try to change me.

My Mother did not respond well when I told her that I no longer celebrated Christmas. It even got to the point where I had to tell her, if she did not show me more respect, that, I would have to cut her out of my life. No problem since then. I still go to family dinners on holidays. Life can be a real trick sometimes, huh!
 
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ContraMundum

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I celebrate both with gusto, as I think both are important in my life and in God's history. Thus I have no problems regarding this topic. I think this is the best way to live for a Messianic Jew (Hebrew Christian, blah blah whatever label you can live with or want to slap on me) as it brings peace to one's life. I tell every Jewish Christian I meet to do the same. It's better to be a mensch than to kvetch about this stuff year after year. Being nice and caring to one's neighbor, remembering God's love and grace is always a good thing. If I can quote Paul in regards the fruit of the Spirit "against such things there is no law". Celebrating Christmas is not a sin, nor is celebrating Hanukkah. Enjoy both.

As for family- my family accept that I am a Christian, and committed to the work of a minister, and all the dramas we had years ago have blown over (yes, it was hard for the first decade or so). That is their grace towards me. For my part, I accept that I am a Jew, and out of respect for those that were observant enough to maintain their identity so that I could be born Jewish and raised in the community, I keep the key holidays and other observances to this day. That is my grace towards them.

It took years to come to a peaceful point though. I don't let fanatics (Christian or Jewish) tell me how to live or who I should seek approval from. Not anymore, anyway. That was the real problem from the start- living to please others, whether family, rabbis or friends or churchmen. Now I accept that I am able to walk without their validation.

My advice- be yourself, and let God's grace do its work. Don't let religion ruin your life, let it enhance it. Peace will come.
 
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ContraMundum

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You cannot make that case from one verse when it only mentions that he was walking in the temple. There is no hint that any of the apostles kept Hanukkah after the Messiah left either.

I think it is far less likely that the Messiah or the Apostles would have had some reason for rejecting Hanukkah. They were not against such blessed things. Hanukkah is good.
 
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anisavta

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With grace!
DH and I celebrate Chanukkah with our kids and Grands which frees them all up to celebrate Christmas w/ their inlaws.
As far as all our Christian friends and family wishing us Christmas greetings - we receive them in the spirit they are intended. Just because we have been enlightened sooner then them doesn't mean we reject them because they are aren't. Again-it's all about grace. How are they going to see something to be desired if we come across as angry malcontents?
 
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yedida

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With grace!
DH and I celebrate Chanukkah with our kids and Grands which frees them all up to celebrate Christmas w/ their inlaws.
As far as all our Christian friends and family wishing us Christmas greetings - we receive them in the spirit they are intended. Just because we have been enlightened sooner then them doesn't mean we reject them because they are aren't. Again-it's all about grace. How are they going to see something to be desired if we come across as angry malcontents?

Absolutely!!
I started a thread in GT and offered Marty Goetz and that video from Selah that Tishri shared with us. I mostly got really good responses.
Only one malcontent who doesn't like the word "Christ"mas"". Oh, well, his loss I guess.
There's nothing wrong with Chrsitmas when it is Christ one sees and worships. The outer trappings are what to avoid. The sentiment, atmosphere, the joy and the cheer - those are wonderful! The music is enheartening, full of promises fulfilled and yet to be fulfilled.
And when Christmas finds itself enveloped by a holiday of Light, Rededication, Re-filling of the Oil, Re-cleansing of the temple - what could be better?
 
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M

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With grace!
DH and I celebrate Chanukkah with our kids and Grands which frees them all up to celebrate Christmas w/ their inlaws.
As far as all our Christian friends and family wishing us Christmas greetings - we receive them in the spirit they are intended. Just because we have been enlightened sooner then them doesn't mean we reject them because they are aren't. Again-it's all about grace. How are they going to see something to be desired if we come across as angry malcontents?
:thumbsup:

My in laws celebrate Christmas. One is religious, the other is agnostic. They actually didn't have room and were kind of depressed about the fact they moved and had no room or time to put up decorations. So, I did it for them at my house. They aren't having a festive dinner, so they are tomorrow - again, at my house.

I don't celebrate, but I am happy to at least give them some "home comfort" in a time that is very bleak and dim looking for them. I know I'd be devistated if we moved from a home we owned to one we were renting that was only a quarter of the size of the one we just left and were living out of boxes during a holiday we felt was very important to us. :sorry:

Other than that, we just don't do presents really. They did get something for the kids, but since we're doing Hanukkah presents - it fits right in.

None of my family (my side) who are not Messianic get this stuff. I get holiday wishes all the time. I just say thank you, and Happy Holidays back. Some are snippy about it, others just live and let live, though they vehemently disagree on our choices. Oh well - it's my life not theirs. ;)

The spirit of the holiday, without the trappings are something to be admired. I can certainly admit that. That's something a lot of people miss out on due to all the trappings. We should have that kind of spirit every day. ;)
 
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MessianicMommy

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JR, growing up, you were never told - something like We are here to share ourselves; our compassion and understanding, with our fellow man. We are here to make the world a better place through our actions, and our interactions. We are here to be an example and a loving presence. We are to shine G-d's light to all mankind..." ?

It's been about 10 years since I celebrated the holiday and even now, that's the over all consensus of the non-commercial versions of the holiday.

The thrust here is almost completely religious, and it's very difficult for secular institutions here to even try to divorce the overall Christian teachings from that, even for school.

Nikolaus came on the 6th of December, kids get a gift or two that day, and gifts are on the 24th for some groups here, and on the 6th of January for others. Today was when most people remember that Y'shua was born, and later died for our sin.


My kids know how we celebrate and what we celebrate, and we do not condemn the others for their habits. "This is what we do. That is what they do. It doesn't make either of you more or less German or American than them. We do what we understand based on Scripture, and they do too."

If someone wants to know why we do what we do, we are more than happy to share that with them. However, most everyone stays out of everyone else's religious lives here. That's as personal here as someone's sex life is back home.

Even with us not celebrating, all the family gets together on the 2nd Christmas Day/Boxing Day. We have a meal with the family and just spend time together. We don't get a lot of time with everyone in one place at the same time. While everyone's off from work you might as well. Businesses are closed, there's nothing else to do. Who wants to sit at home and twiddle their thumbs? (Quiet laws prohibit yard work or loud housework)

If we go further back than Victorian times, it was a time mostly spent in worship. Not many people decorated, or had gifts or anything like that. So 3 full days that you were in church, whether you were a regular attendee or not (most were).

Where the overall thrust back home may be the commercial aspect, the overall thrust here is religious. However, with it being a very multi-cultural area here, no one huffs or puffs if you just say "happy holidays and a good slide into the new year" (Frohes Fest und ein gute Rutsch!). They know not everyone's on the same page, but everyone's too polite to shove in whatever holiday they're celebrating. They're all covered under that one, including all the various Christian ones.

For those that are Jewish, Messianic or not, it's a non-issue. We have time off from work, businesses are closed, and it's Hanukkah. Win-win. That doesn't happen many years. There's no time off for Hanukkah here, but there is every year from Christmas to New Year's.


As far as the OP, I did see where there are more and more people not celebrating the holiday because of the overall commercialized aspect.

...Some people who have downscaled their Christmas celebrations say the change made them saner, more relaxed and less indebted.

...Ingram says some gentle etiquette is required when a person decides to stop gift-giving in a family that expects it. "Opting out of the commercialism of the holidays works only if everybody buys into it, and that's where it gets tricky," she says. In some cases, it might mean forgoing a family gathering where gifts are exchanged to avoid an "incredibly awkward" moment....
Just say no to Christmas? “ USATODAY.com

For us, the ease of stopping the gift giving was that I moved overseas. No one can afford to send large packages to a non-military affiliated address. The prices from both USPS and UPS went way up. So, we might send cards instead.

This year was easy peasy. The folks at Kindergarten know we celebrate Hanukkah. It was a non-issue. My family know and have started celebrating Hanukkah as well. My sister is interested and starting to read up. My brother has celebrated for a while.

It's the other folks in the extended family we just have to extend a little more grace towards. Make the road smooth and not come across as little malcontents out to find the pagan behind every corner, under every rock and leaf. Or that we somehow think we are better than them. (nope, we're all faulty humans)

I think this year has been the first that my extended family members have returned the gesture. That says a lot, considering how strained our relationships tend to be this time of year.:angel:
 
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ChavaK

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I get holiday wishes all the time. I just say thank you, and Happy Holidays back.
:thumbsup:

Obviously I don't celebrate Christmas, but I am always getting Merry Christmas or Happy Holiday greetings from people. I simply say thank you,
and the same to you. No need to make a big deal out of it...simply treat
them the way you would like to be treated.
 
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yedida

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I also did not like the Christmas reference concerning the Marty Geotz song. Just thought I'd voice that.

I belive the 'spirit of Christmas' is certainly not the Ruach HaKodesh.It maybe merry, but its not of Him.

There are many believers today because of the graceful ministry of people like Marty Goetz, Paul Wilbur, etc., who know how to include both belief systems into their presentations, be it teaching or musical. Thank God! for these people!! They perform and teach in Baptist churchs, Messianic synagogues, Presbyterian churches, and Hebrew-roots fellowships - they and their music bring it all together.
On one of the videos of Marty Goetz (I think it was Prince of Peace, there was a comment from someone that this song convicted them to pray for that same peace to find them, and t did!)
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I celebrate both with gusto, as I think both are important in my life and in God's history. Thus I have no problems regarding this topic. I think this is the best way to live for a Messianic Jew (Hebrew Christian, blah blah whatever label you can live with or want to slap on me) as it brings peace to one's life. I tell every Jewish Christian I meet to do the same. It's better to be a mensch than to kvetch about this stuff year after year. Being nice and caring to one's neighbor, remembering God's love and grace is always a good thing. If I can quote Paul in regards the fruit of the Spirit "against such things there is no law". Celebrating Christmas is not a sin, nor is celebrating Hanukkah. Enjoy both.

As for family- my family accept that I am a Christian, and committed to the work of a minister, and all the dramas we had years ago have blown over (yes, it was hard for the first decade or so). That is their grace towards me. For my part, I accept that I am a Jew, and out of respect for those that were observant enough to maintain their identity so that I could be born Jewish and raised in the community, I keep the key holidays and other observances to this day. That is my grace towards them.

It took years to come to a peaceful point though. I don't let fanatics (Christian or Jewish) tell me how to live or who I should seek approval from. Not anymore, anyway. That was the real problem from the start- living to please others, whether family, rabbis or friends or churchmen. Now I accept that I am able to walk without their validation.

My advice- be yourself, and let God's grace do its work. Don't let religion ruin your life, let it enhance it. Peace will come.

Concerning what you noted, I think Messianic Derek Lemnan had some wonderful thoughts to share on the matter....as seen here at Should Intermarried Families Celebrate Christmas? | Messianic Musingss...:javascript:void(0)






Messianic Judaism brings together many intermarried families with many different backgrounds and stories. In December, there is an issue which touches the core of what it means to struggle with two heritages, two cultures, under one roof.

Yesterday, in a comment on my post about going off to Chicago-land, in which I mentioned that I am working on a haggadah for the birth of Messiah, Tandi wrote in representing what I would call one extreme position in approaching the question of Christmas. You can see her comment here.

Tandi’s explanation, though it contains several historical inaccuracies (even major ones), is nonetheless essentially true. The customs of Christmas are adapted from Roman and Teutonic holidays and at the root these customs did once involve pagan rites and worldviews. From this, she concludes that Christmas-celebrating families are being deceived into unwittingly practicing pagan worship and imitating the forbidden customs of the native peoples. I cannot go this far.

But it is a good question to raise: should an intermarried family celebrate Christmas?

The Positives
First, it should be noted that adapting pagan customs for the worship of the true God is not only allowable, it is something God himself does. Research and you will find that Sukkot (Tabernacles) is quite similar to the Babylonian and other Mesopotamian rites at the end of harvest. You will find that new moons marked the calendar in virtually all ancient cultures prior to the institution of the Biblical calendar. You will find that Late Bronze temples amongst the pagans were virtually identical in layout to the pattern God showed Moses on Sinai for the Tabernacle and what later became the Temple in Jerusalem. You will find that cherubs, mixed creatures of animal and human features, marked the deities of Egypt and Mesopotamia and yet were included on the Ark and on the curtains of the Temple. I could go on and on, but Tandi and the many critics of Christmas as deceptive-pagan worship need to reckon with the fact that worship customs are shared in common between pagans and Jews and Christians and always have been.


Second, the idea that customs of Christmas (a cut tree, holly, a fire, songs, etc.) are equatable with the customs of the Canaanites which the Torah forbids Israel to imitate has a major problem. The problem is that in context after context, the Torah and prophets give examples of these customs. They involve idolatrous worship, sexual immorality, and even child sacrifice. These are hardly equatable with a family decorating and feasting for a holiday.

More importantly, Christmas represents for many of the non-Jewish spouses of intermarriage a treasured piece of childhood, a family heritage, and a cultural expression that brings fond memories. When a person comes to God he does not strip away heritage or culture, but only wrong-doing and error.

Christmas is for many a connection to extended family, a shared experience that has meant bonding and forgiving and coming together for something good and joyful.

There are positive reasons why a non-Jewish spouse of intermarriage might want to celebrate Christmas.


The Negatives
Yet there are strong reasons to take the opposite approach as well. My family has chosen not to celebrate Christmas for these reasons. I find them compelling.


Celebrating Christmas in an intermarried family will confuse the children. Are they being raised as Jews or encouraged to assimilate and leave Jewish identity behind? Their Christian friends will see them as really Christians and not Jews as will their Jewish friends. At best, Christmas in a Jewish or intermarried home sends a mixed message.

Remembering the birth of Messiah on December 25 is based on a falsehood. The church long ago chose a date which coincided with a Roman feast involving pagan customs. This was not an attempt by the church to deceive anyone. It was a matter of expedience. Everyone was already freed from regular work during Saturnalia and it was a good time for a feast (Christmas feasts were more than one day at that time). Yeshua was decidedly not born on December 25 which means there is always something artificial about Christmas. We have no idea when Yeshua was born (the so-called proof that he was born during Sukkot is baseless and equally false).

Christmas long ago ceased to be a sign of faith, an identity marker of a person devoted to Messiah and willing to take a stand in a Messiah-less culture. Christmas is simply the way of the land, a day that may just as well be about greed and the desire to enrich our lives with baubles and amusements. It is no act of faith to bow to the deities of Walmart and Target and Best Buy.


Very significantly for the Leman family, Christmas detracts from Hanukkah. The materialistic delights of Christmas presents easily outweighs the family fun of dreidl and the telling of the Maccabean story. Why would we want our children to thing of Hanukkah as “that other holiday in December”?


Finally, and also a deciding factor in the Leman home, Christmas will raise barriers with Jewish friends and family. I know, some of you intermarrieds are saying, “But my mother-in-law buys Christmas presents for the kids and she has a tree in her own house.” This is often the case. But even those in the Jewish community who celebrate Christmas know it is a compromise with assimilation. And they look to you, the family that supposedly believes in God and is devoted to him, and they wonder why you are so eager to assimilate. What difference does God make and is faithfulness an issue for you at all? It is better for them if you are not committed and excuses their own surrender to assimilation. Let’s not take God too seriously, shall we?


In Sum
I have said more on this topic than usual. It is an emotional one. As a rabbi over a congregation of mostly intermarried families, I make no comment at synagogue or when I visit a home. I respect either decision, though clearly I favor one over the other.


I know as well as anyone the good side of Christmas as well as the bad side. “It’s a Wonderful Life” is one of my favorite movies too. The true values of the secular Christmas are not just materialism, but a return to family, goodwill toward all people, and faithful and devoted love. Even without the Messiah story, Christmas has a good side.

I don’t hesitate to say Merry Christmas to friends. I don’t rankle because the store clerk does not say, Happy Hanukkah to me. I simply have made the choice to keep Hanukkah in the Leman home and not Christmas. And, yes, I have succumbed to the temptation to give gifts to my wife and children at Hanukkah. It is a compromise with secular culture, but we give it meaning in our own way.

So, why am I making a Haggadah for the Birth of Messiah and putting it out in December?
 
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