Yes! MORE police brutality! Only this time against unarmed peaceful students!

razeontherock said:

The cop using the pepper spray in this video has not had such training, apparently.

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You're wrong again.

Both officers were trained in the use of pepper spray as department policy dictates, and both had been sprayed with it themselves during training, the chief noted.​

Read more: Officers In University Pepper Spray Incident Placed On Leave | Fox News ​

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jameseb said:

You're wrong again.

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Actually you proved me right. "Apparently," that officer violated everything his training was designed to do. Which is why he's now laid off.

What's really wrong here, is the notion that (from your source) "pepper spray is a "compliance tool" that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters."

That because somebody on the opposite coast wrote such Police policy somehow makes it a good idea, is absurd. If you're going to "simply lift protesters" anyway, what's the benefit in the pepper spray? A "compliance tool" should be used when there's some need to get people to comply

razeontherock said:

Actually you proved me right.

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No, you were proved wrong - again. Accept it. Let the healing begin.

That because somebody on the opposite coast wrote such Police policy somehow makes it a good idea, is absurd. If you're going to "simply lift protesters" anyway, what's the benefit in the pepper spray? A "compliance tool" should be used when there's some need to get people to comply

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I'm assuming you have absolutely no expertise in this subject and are simply offering the opinions of someone who is armchair quarterbacking this?

Pepper spray can avoid possible injuries that might occur when security forces and illegal protestors come into physical contact. Look at all the injuries sustained by police in New York and other places when they attempted to move protestors.

Myself, I'd rather take my chance phyiscally removing them (seems less "harsh"), but then again, I'm not privy to the years of experience and trainning that most police forces have. Maybe stastics show pepper spray results in less injuries.

jameseb said:

Myself, I'd rather take my chance phyiscally removing them (seems less "harsh"), but then again, I'm not privy to the years of experience and trainning that most police forces have. Maybe stastics show pepper spray results in less injuries.

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Pepper spray makes people less likely to fight, which in a peaceful protest is not a problem. When sprayed on a non-violent person, it is more likely to make them pay less attention to preventing injury to themselves when being lifted. They focus on rubbing their eyes(making the burning worse), when lifted could cause eye injuries.

Lifting people could injure the police just as easily, that is why, forcing the issue should be a last resort.

BTW Astmatics or people with breathing difficulties can die from pepper spray, where as most broken bones won't kill someone.

It would be interesting to see how police would handle a protestor that announces they have asthma, but refuse to move. Spraying them would be life threatening. Would they spray the person and risk that life, just to move the protest?

In the OP, pushing a crowd back with the flat of the baton is not an extreme use of force. What they did do was extreme abuse of force.

I am glad the man spraying the protestors is on leave(unpaid?). It was an arrogant display of power by the police.

razeontherock said:

Wait, what you're describing here in no way would qualify as "Police brutality." Please make it a habit not to use that language sloppily! If they have a job to do and it's difficult, well that's what their training is for.

As per my original statement in this thread, the issue is if the students were doing anything illegal in the video in the OP. They weren't. Police use of force was entirely inappropriate.

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Where you there to see what went down? Do you have all the facts in this case? yes or no

The two police who were responsible for the sprayings that were caught on camera were put on paid leave.

UC Davis investigates pepper spray incident - Yahoo! News

The officers will be paid while on leave, university spokeswoman Claudia Morain said. She did not identify them.

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According to plenty of different articles and eyewitnesses, one of the students was asthmatic and still hospitalized.

mdancin4theLord said:

Where you there to see what went down? Do you have all the facts in this case? yes or no

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I'm sure he will tell you he does but just don't ask for evidence as it won't be forthcoming despite his demands that you provide evidence!

mpok1519 said:

No, it is rather difficult you come to your house and put you intoa lie detector to prove my assertion correct.

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or you could just take my word for it! Don't worry I don't expect you to so don't feel compelled to respond to this bit.

mpok1519 said:

Are you saying your's is?

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not at all. i mentioned personal experience just to show that different people have different experiences so your claim which was based purely on personal experience has no merit or (less likely) that we are both wrong but also both correct even though we have different experiences in the matter

mpok1519 said:

It IS on topic; the topic is peaceful protesters being brutalized; presently, and in tangent coorelation to the same type of protests that took place in the past. When I corrected to stay on topic in regards to using nonviolent force to arrest peaceful protesters, it was due to the assertion that the topic at hand was violent protest and resistance to arrest.

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Well then you shouldn't bring up topics like resisting arrest if they are not on topic. if resisting arrest is on topic then my comment was actually on topic and I then have to ask why you claimed it was off topic.

mpok1519 said:

Don't avoid the question; were the cops back in the civil rights era justified and correct, moral and ethical, in their brutalization of civil rights peaceful protesters and demonstrators?

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i have already stated that i consider this to be comparing apples and oranges. Come up with a fair comparison and I will be happy to answer the question.

now what would be an interesting question is to go into human rights abuses that seem to be supported by most americans if the broad range of internet forums i frequent are any indication.

mpok1519 said:

Facts; more people have been injured by the police in the ows protests, than protesters have injured police. Fact.

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i have never disputed that. you claimed that tear gas has cut peoples heads open while another poster arguing the same side of the argument as you claimed tear gas is harmless and there is no chance of injury from its use. i simply asked the two of you to decide which statement is correct and get back to me. this response says absolutely nothing in regards to what I wrote. perhaps you did not mean to quote that bit of what I said.

mpok1519 said:

I guess not; serving the public is only allowed when valid....but, strangely, common sense would tell one that service is always valid.

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As I said before like so many things there are rules and guidelines for people to work in and even though it would be helpful one can get in trouble for doing so. So to hold it against them like you do is not really fair. It would be like me going to a lawyer and then being surprised when they can't operate on my shoulder!

mpok1519 said:

at UC Davis the campus cops were jamming their pepper spray canisters directly in the mouths of protesters. Some kids were coughing up blood and had to be hospitalized. God help them if they develope ulcers and other problems.

But thats all proper police procedure, right?

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No. But since you lack any support for your pretty wild accusation, do I believe you? No. Nyet. Nein. Non.

jameseb said:

No. But since you lack any support for your pretty wild accusation, do I believe you? No. Nyet. Nein. Non.

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Seems like there's a lot of myths spreading about police brutality, none of them with any proof. Sure, we can see them being violent to protesters, no need to invent stuff to make the police seem more evil and sadistic than they already appear.

TheDag said:

I'm sure he will tell you he does but just don't ask for evidence as it won't be forthcoming despite his demands that you provide evidence!

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Yes I know.

No one knows all the facts. The police in fact might have been out of line who knows. Are the police perfect? No But are the students perfect in action?

Today who would ever want to take on the role of being a policeman...I will never know.

jameseb said:

Maybe stastics show pepper spray results in less injuries.

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That's only valid of the person is trying to injure you. If they're not, then it's just abuse. Plain and simple. Even if it's written into precedent!

mpok1519 said:

I'm not doing your homework for you. Look it up if you actually want to believe something that is true.

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with all due respect the general rule in this section of CF is that person making the claim backs up the story. I think you made the original claim if my memory serves me correctly.

mpok1519 said:

Facts; more people have been injured by the police in the ows protests, than protesters have injured police. Fact.

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Hey, let's leave NYC out of this! Seriously, how many Police sustained injury due to student attack at Berkeley on the date in question? (11/9, IIRC)
How many total on that campus, to date? Pretty sure you're going to find it's 0 ... anybody got a report?

mdancin4theLord said:

Do you have all the facts in this case? yes or no

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I made it a point to find out everything available before commenting, yes. And I do believe, from experience, that if this ever comes before a Judge, the criminal actions seen by the Police will be acquitted. Which will likely result in deaths to Police officers Nationwide, and worse working conditions for them for the foreseeable future. Which I'd like to avoid

mpok1519 said:

I'm not doing your homeworkk for you. Look it up if you actually want to believe something that is true.

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So since you're not willing to back this story up I'll just assume it's fake. kthxbye.